Orbis - the original thread

I decided to take a short break from RL work and did some updates to the mod. The patch 0.11 b is linked in the first post, for changelog check the second post.

Sorry for the long silence. I did read all the posts, just did not have time to post something longer.

@ Rawn
Thanks for the feedback! I really like some of the ideas, but I currently do not know how to add food to a city short of event. I will need more time than I have now to try to figure it out.
As for the Stewards, I really want to have some events etc., just wanted to have other guilds more or less complete first.
If anyone has any ideas for the events or other ways to spice stewards (or any other guild), post it here

@ charleswatkins
I still try to find what is the cause of your religion problems. So far, without succes. If anyone has simillar problem let me know.
RoK should work exactly as you described and there are no evil leaders short of Hyborem that can't adopt RoK.

@ Quetz
Half the things? So what the other half is ?
In fact, this mod started as my personal fix for the things I do not liked/missed first in Vanilla civ, then I moved it to FfH. I only decided to release it after I added guilds and pagan temples, as someone might find a use for this part. I am glad some people really like it.
It is great that you like priest changes. It is probably not the most elegant solution, but I still think it is better than psuedo-mage priests we currently have in unmodded FfH. And sanctify is a must for a good/neutral priests

@ Dzhel
I will look into the barbarian thing.
Both this one and the other two are straight from base FfH.
The [happy icon] happened to me too and I think it was posted in the bug thread, but currently I do not know how to fix it.
Flying unit fix is already in the patch (I guess you have seen it as it is gone from your post)

I have added missing abilities for the guildsmen so I hope it is better balanced now.
I also tried to add some more unique art or match it better with the civ lore or existing art. That is the reason for Grigori change.
If you think that some of the art do not really fit, please do not be shy and post it here.

I hope to post some more than just bugfixes, but unfortunatelly summer is a busy season for me. So we will see...

something different:
since you brought back the polearm line,shouldn´t be the Phalanx the high end unit of it? (+x against mounted instead of city attack)

balance:
maybe increasing city defenses against archery bombardment?
if you have stirrups and can build horsearchers it´s nearly not necessary
to have any other unit
especially these slow siege weapons are totally useless in comparrisson to them
at least other civs than the hippus should be weakend to keep their uniqueness

i think palisades or walls should give an impressive cover against it
until they´re reduced with siege engines (does the +% city def count against Archery bombardment? lessen or even negate the ranged damage?)

Phalax, or spartatoi as it was called before, never had any bonus against mounted units, even when polearm line was still in. They are supposed to be good all-around, especially at city storming.
They also defeat easily everything mounted that is not a knight. And knight is supposed to be hard to kill - it is the most expensive non-hero unit in the game. Ranged attack and then pikeman or phalanx should work though.

Defence from ranged attacks when in walled city is a good idea. Unfortunatelly it requires SDK changes I think and I am not sure if I will be able to convince xienwolf to include it as it is not used in Fall Further.

As for the horse archers, you are right that they are too usefull. I will lower their ranged attack to 2 (from 4) and limit it to 20% or even 15% from the current 40%. Hope that helps. I will probably lower war chariots ranged attack a bit, too. This way archers will be a lot more useful.
As for the siege engines, I think they are still much better than both archery units and mounted archers in ranged attack, especially regarding collateral damage (mounted archers do not do it at all). Remeber that they can use enemy roads, so can be quite fast.

ok with the Phalanx was just a thought (if i hear Phalanx i always have the picture of an ancient Greek Pikewall in mind, and a Pikewall is the Bane of any mounted unit)

about the city def, i can only make suggestions, i don´t know what is possible
or nessessary to implement it (i´m happy if i can manage to correctly installing mods)

did you ever take a look at Tarquelne´s Holy Warriors or his Techunit Replacements for the Amurite?

edit: btw Magister have made some interesting suggestions in the FF thread (page90, three links)

Just wanted to drop by and let you know that know that 0.11 seems to be stable and very enjoyable. A few questions though.

1. Resources seem to be abundant regardless of mapscript. Have you tinkered with the propabilities or is it just caused by the new resources being added in addition to the old?

2. Castles seem to be crazy good improvements. I find myself castle farming instead of town farming. Good resources, can be built in any tile and gives a solid defence bonus against raiders. I think they could use a bit of restriction. Either castles can't be built on every kind of tile or there should be a minimum amount of tiles between each castle (2 tiles?).

3. Swamps are currently a bit too good in my opinion, and swamp castles are a suprisingly nice combination. Considering just how unpopular swamps are in RL, with huge areas being turned into farmland, perhaps they should simply be "wet tundra" instead? 1 food plus disease, but can have fur, iron, ivory, deer, fish, clams and pearls resources.

4. Where do you get the graphics for the units? I recognise a few from other mods, like Varietas Delectat, but some I haven't seen before. Do you create them yourself?

5. What are your future plans? I know that naming mods is no exact science but since you are currently at 0.11 it makes me wonder what your vision is for version 1.00?

Many thanks for sharing your hard work and I look forward to following OrbiMod on it's journey to the awesomefest.

Just want to say how much I've been enjoying the modmod. The new units, buildings, resources, etc have put new life into the game for me. With ORBI, MARNOK, and FALL FURTHER to choose from (and MAGISTER one of these days), these are truly great times for FFH addicts.

@ Rawn
I think exactly the same while hearing "phalanx", with one difference - phalanxes were very slow and thus vulnerable to flank or rear attacks, especially from mounted units. That is why roman legion tactics was better . Anyway, I think that phalanx is a poor choice of words, I think even spartatoi was better. I will probably change it, exactly the same as champion is now heavy infantry. This name did not fit at all in my opinion.

Do not get me wrong, I am happy with all your suggestions and I really would like to include this one. I just tried to explain why I will not include it right now, which I would like to do. Dll is beyond my skill/time for now, but I hope to change it in the feature. I am learning python right now

As for Tarqueline's mods, I really like siege mages and plan to include them for some time now. On the other hand, Holy warriors seem a bit too complicated. I prefer to have paladins/eidolons of different backgrounds (melee or different faiths) than special units. That unfortunatelly requires upgrading to get the most from them. I even consider making them not buildable and require at least 2 level to upgrade to enforce the extra abilities. Druids are already semi-religious units, as they require FoL or RoK in the city to be build. I have kept dwarven druids as dwarf unique though.
As for MC's suggestions, I will check them out.

Edit: I checked and quite like them (most of them anyway). The problem is they require SDK so I will not be able to include them in the immediate future. But I will keep them in mind.

@ Wauthan
Are you sure you do not have Blessing of Amauthaon checked in? I usually play with it, but I keep my playing files separate to the ones I release. I did not really changed appereance chances (at least I do not recall anything like that). I just changed the valid terrains/features (basicly added some according to my knowledge) and added new resources, so that is possible reason. But everyone gets that so it is more or less balanced so I quite like it... Unfortunatelly with prospectors and millers you can add even more on top of that. I will have to think if need and can be toned down. What do you think?

Castles are strong, I agree. I kept the original defence rates, but added some yelds and they act as cities again. On top of that building forts do not remove feature, resulting in even better defence.
I will probably lower the base defence and think about cutting base yeld and/or feudal contract bonus. I would like to prevent them from being build on adjacent tiles, but it would require changing creation from build order to spell and that I do not want to do. Also, restricting them to a specific terrains will result in areas that can't get castle and some that can get them everyehere. Basically, I think that there are a few terrains that really were commonly used as place for castles: hills, river sides and swampy areas (like teutonic knights or the one from The Holy Grail - including the burned and then sunken one...)

As for the swamps, I think they are quite popular settlement areas, but mostly after draining i.e. the Netherlands. These areas are really productive. I can make a python function that turns every swamp tile terrain to a wettland terrain (like the one from FF). This way after draining swamp you will be able to farm a really good area - a bit like flood plains but weaker (+1 food) and no unhealth. Unfortunatelly it has some drwabacks. It would require additional type of tundra too, to accomodate the swamps on tundra. Also, currently you have to decide whether you want to keep the swamp (+1 food, some defensive bonuses and unhealthiness) or just build a farm there (+2 food with sanitation, civics bonuses, healthy). So, I can go with the wetland area or just lower defensive bonus and increase unhealthiness from swamp. What do you guys think?
As for the sea resources in swamps, it fits them, but after draining it would produce fish jumping from grassland tile and I think and it is not something I want.

The unit graphics come from varied sources. Some ar from firaxis (both expansions and scenarios) and are not used by basic mod. Some are taken form other mods, especially Warhammer. Other are just downloaded from this site, some people have a lot of units posted. I use a lot of danrell's for example - most of elohim and some other are from him.
Some units are from earlier versions of FfH and vere dropped because of gameplay changes, i.e. Bannor spearman was probably made by seZereth (please correct me if I am wrong) and was dropped because of the removal of the pike line. I got it from the vanilla version of FfH (0.23).
I only do simple recolouring (i.e. elohim phalanx is a recoloured holy empire landskneht). Sometimes I also do some removing form the current unit in nifviewer, i.e. infernal archmage and fire elemental both come from the same unit that Kael added in one of the recent patches as a fire elemental. I removed the club for the archmage and get rid of everything except the fire for the fire elemental.
I plan to learn how to add something, but I should work on finishing my thesis so I decided to do it after I finish.

As for the naming, I think that FfH should be now version 2.32 judging from the polish and playability it has. But as it is still 0.32 I do not want to have version 4.0 of Orbi in a half a year or so.
I plan to update to major versions at least with every major version of FfH.
As for my plans, I will keep working on this mod as it is the one I play. So I will probably add the things I like from other mods if the author agree. I also plan to add broader alignements and some civ-specific bonuses for specific terrains (i.e. better tundra yeld for Doviello and desert for Malakim), but for that I will wait for 0.33 compatibile version of Xienwolf's modcomp. I also think of adding unit statistics.
I want to continue balancing & flavoring the guilds, fix bugs and add more flavor to civs - both with unit looks and special abilities.
I do not plan to release many new civs though. I will not survive a competition with all the FF goodness anyway I think I will add one civ from FF with a next patch - a slightly modified version of Mazatl. Ever since the vanilla civ4 I wanted to fill the jungle ecological niche - and Lizards are a perfect civ for that. Vehem was kind enough to allow me to use them here (thanks again ).
One other civ I think of is agnostic and avoiding magic one - a renaissance one using tech, machines and gunpowder, a bit steam-punkish, something simillar to Vinci in the Age of Legends or some aspects of The Empire in Warhammer. But I have to think about it, both in therms of balance and to fit with FfH setting. The other one would be more feudal one, high middle-ages themed, a bit like brettonia in Warhammer. But it is just creazy thinking for now.
I also need to work on Stewards of Inequity. They are quite dull now and need to given some nice abilities and events.
I do not have set in stone vision of version 1.0 and do not promise all of the above - but that are the things I think about. I hope you like it. Of course, I am open to any suggestions, that is one of the reasons I released this mod.

I am glad you people like it in it's current state. Even too glad as I prefer to work on this mod than on my thesis and it suffers a lot... Damned RL work, who needs it...

Hey guys

Been away for a while. Lots of updates seem to have appeared here. I'll check them out when I'm not working and let you know what I think

Al

Also, does anybody know which map script works best with this mod to take advantage of all the cool and crazy terrain features (swamp, kelp, etc). I normally use perfect world, but this won't allow me to take advantage of these features (and also seems to exclude reagents :s).


Also, are there any improved versions map scripts like hub? These cannot be played with large numbers of players without filling the map with terrain :s

Thanks guys

Al

Also (sorry for the third post ), when is patch c expected to be released?

Thanks

Al

Give me an hour...

Edit: ok, here it is: 0.11 c

I did not have much time to test it, but it should work fine. If it does not, let me know.

Alzara said:

Also, does anybody know which map script works best with this mod to take advantage of all the cool and crazy terrain features (swamp, kelp, etc). I normally use perfect world, but this won't allow me to take advantage of these features (and also seems to exclude reagents :s).


Also, are there any improved versions map scripts like hub? These cannot be played with large numbers of players without filling the map with terrain :s

Thanks guys

Al

Click to expand...

I like Sto's 'Full of Resources' series, which despite the name has many more options than resources. With it, you get plenty of swamps, kelp, etc. but no Hell terrain to start with.

Ahwaric said:

Give me an hour...

Edit: ok, here it is: 0.11 c

I did not have much time to test it, but it should work fine. If it does not, let me know.

Click to expand...

Woot! This should be fun!

charleswatkins said:

I like Sto's 'Full of Resources' series, which despite the name has many more options than resources. With it, you get plenty of swamps, kelp, etc. but no Hell terrain to start with.

Click to expand...

Thanks... I'll check it out and see what it is like

Will post in the future when I have the internet back in my new location

Al

I decided to wrap some bugfixes & changes to deep jungle that I done after 0.11 c and post it as a quickfix.
The next patch will most probably break saves and can take some time to get ready, so I decided to release non breaking fixes separately.
Patch 0.11 c is also quite big due to lizard art, so I will probably just realease a new version with lizards already in, instead of posting the same files over and over.
The fix is very small, but requires 0.11c to work.

I also did some tests on ranged attacks and noticed that actually ranged damage is lowered by defensive structures or even features. The effect is not that great, but it is in.
It is better to be hit while in the castle on the forested hill than in the featureless plain. Same applies to cities - better if they have walls and citadels (not to mention other bonuses you get from this buildings - i.e. it is better to use ranged attack from the city than the other way around due to increased collateral damage city wall defenders inflict).
Note that siege engines ignore building defences, so only culture or terrain/fort bonuses work.
That is not a change I added, it was in all the time. I just decided to inform you how it works as I did a few tests recently and Rawn suggested such mechanics. On the other hand, I hope to increase that effect (basicly to make it double that it currently is).

I just downloaded and played this modmod and found it excellent.

The only thing that bugs me is Standing Stones giving nature mana. it doesn't make sense. Could you remove the mana bonus and give it a large production bonus? Or you could remove the mana from the Gate and boost it's yields a little bit.

Otherwise, great mod, and I'm enjoying using corporations.

Any plans on adding any more civs besides the Mazatl?

i think standing stones are assossiated to druids so nature mana sounds like a logical choice

didn´t ahwaric already give all the unique features some prod and /or food/commerce boni?

Rawn said:

i think standing stones are assossiated to druids so nature mana sounds like a logical choice

didn´t ahwaric already give all the unique features some prod and /or food/commerce boni?

Click to expand...

There's a good case either way. Druids practiced Geomancy, which drew power from the Earth. The standing stones were situated on 'ley' lines where the earth currents flowed. They utilized the earth magic to make the lands fertile.

charleswatkins said:

There's a good case either way. Druids practiced Geomancy, which drew power from the Earth. The standing stones were situated on 'ley' lines where the earth currents flowed. They utilized the earth magic to make the lands fertile.

Click to expand...

sure i agree with you, but since we have here Earth AND Nature mana
and earth will fit a more pure elemental role i think Nature is better suited for the druidic circle

Rawn said:

sure i agree with you, but since we have here Earth AND Nature mana
and earth will fit a more pure elemental role i think Nature is better suited for the druidic circle

Click to expand...

My reasoning exactly . Note that normal druids have nature mana affinity. In FfH earth mana is a dwarven druid domain and it is all about rocks and inanimate earth. I suppose that dwarven druids gather in underground caverns (in the underdark/underhome...) rather than at circles of stones.
I also like the green glow nature mana gives to the circle

Anyway, if you really do not like it, it is a simple xml change. I think I will keep it as it is.

As for the new civs, I do not plan to add more of the FF ones. I will focus on flavouring the already existing ones and possibly add the two I mentioned in the loooong post a few days ago...

By the way, have you read the 0.33 changelog? Some great changes in there.
Too bad I will be out for a week since 18 to 25 august...
But as always, some changes I do not like. I already know that serfdom and mechanists shops will be in, as they are quite diffeent in Orbi than in basic FfH. I will probably move crossbowman building requirement to bowyers though, so machinery do not require the bowyers tech any more (and thus allow earlier weavers).

Note: almost 3 years to get my 100th post... quite a long time...