Choices of Play Style on Deity

I was thinking about this today. You sort of have 3 options of how to play your game.

1. Play optimal, Without Abusing the AI and crush the AI very easy. (I get a little bored with this style since you never have the chance to lose.)

2. Abuse the AI with every trick in the book and crush every game. (My personal way to enjoy the game.)

3. Play with special Rules and Never Abuse the AI to allow them to have a chance. (Not a bad way to play. I find that if you stunt your growth in games it can allow the AI to be more of a challenge.)

Anyways... maybe you have other choices as well that do not fit into these three categories??

Roleplay

Fluphen Azine said:

I was thinking about this today. You sort of have 3 options of how to play your game.

1. Play optimal and crush the AI very easy. (I get a little bored with this style since you never have the chance to lose.)

2. Abuse the AI with every trick in the book and crush every game. (My personal way to enjoy the game.)

3. Play with special Rules and never abuse the AI to allow them to have a chance. (Not a bad way to play. I find that if you stunt your growth in games it can allow the AI to be more of a challenge.)

Anyways... maybe you have other choices as well that do not fit into these three categories??

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Yeah bro please get off your high horse.

First, options 1 and 2 are the same. What's the difference? every trick in the book IS playing optimally.

You can win every game? Even super insanely landlocked into 30% tundra 20% snow 20% mountains starts? You can win EVERY game on Deity with the likes of Songhai and Hiawaitha?

You can win a game when you end up on the continent of doom with Alex, Shaka, Genghis and Dido as neighbors, while on the other continent Korea, Siam and Persia hug it out and outpace you by two eras?

Myth and Legend said:

You can win every game? Even super insanely landlocked into 30% tundra 20% snow 20% mountains starts? You can win EVERY game on Deity with the likes of Songhai and Hiawaitha?

You can win a game when you end up on the continent of doom with Alex, Shaka, Genghis and Dido as neighbors, while on the other continent Korea, Siam and Persia hug it out and outpace you by two eras?

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Well, fact that something is impossible for you doesn't mean it's impossible for all people on this forum. I don't believe in unbeatable maps (normal maps not handbuild in WB)

So next time when you get this 'impossible' start post your starting save here

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=541565

After reading the thread, you seem to be an expert. So, I will actually go out of my way and roll a challenging map for you. One question: do i have to disable any DLC? I have them all and some people can't play my saves because of that.

Myth and Legend said:

After reading the thread, you seem to be an expert. So, I will actually go out of my way and roll a challenging map for you. One question: do i have to disable any DLC? I have them all and some people can't play my saves because of that.

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Yes please disable 'Scrambled Nations’, ‘Explorers Map Pack’ and ‘Scrambled Continents’.

I have explorers map pack but if this save will be in fact challenging enough I will send it to consentient for future Deity Challenge Line-up

IronfighterXXX said:

Yes please disable 'Scrambled Nations’, ‘Explorers Map Pack’ and ‘Scrambled Continents’.

I have explorers map pack but if this save will be in fact challenging enough I will send it to consentient for future Deity Challenge Line-up

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I support this endeavor.

I too am very curious whenever someone claims that ANY normal map start is winnable on Deity.

My playstyle is actually a combination of the three. I mean, how else would you expect me to consistently win on Deity

I too am very curious whenever someone claims that ANY normal map start is winnable on Deity.

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Because nobody have been able to show an impossible game yet.

Denkt said:

Because nobody have been able to show an impossible game yet.

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So you say, but since I haven't seen the saves of the "impossible games" being offered and those same saves being won (screenshots of both at least), that statement is not proven for me. From what I read of the thread IronfighterXXX posted, there haven't actually been any examples of winning on Deity with poor starting positions.

So I'm very interested to see screenshots of these bad starts being won on Deity. Actually, posting saves might be fine too; I didn't have all DLC before but I think I can load them now.

@LoneRebel

On this forum were posted over fifty deity challenges, many deity GOTMs, all were won.

It's not our task to prove that UFO doesn't exist but it's task for people who believe in UFO prove that it exist. (for our discussion replace UFO with impossible map)

Myth and Legend said:

Yeah bro please get off your high horse.

First, options 1 and 2 are the same. What's the difference? every trick in the book IS playing optimally.

You can win every game? Even super insanely landlocked into 30% tundra 20% snow 20% mountains starts? You can win EVERY game on Deity with the likes of Songhai and Hiawaitha?

You can win a game when you end up on the continent of doom with Alex, Shaka, Genghis and Dido as neighbors, while on the other continent Korea, Siam and Persia hug it out and outpace you by two eras?

Click to expand...

High horse huh? Ok... let me step down a bit here so that you might understand. This was just a thought nothing I was saying was trying to imply that I am being egotistical about the game. I do not see how playing optimal is the same as abusing the AI? I guess I need to clarify what I meant by playing optimal. I meant that you play the game using math and going out of your way NOT to abuse the AI. I do not play this way but I notice the players who do seem to have no problems winning the game on Deity very fast.

I do not see how you can't win every game on Deity no matter the starts you roll. It is pretty easy to turtle up and get an SV no matter the start as I think other players have proven over and over again but we will be waiting for your impossible map that you are going to roll? Remember Internal Trade routes fix pretty much any growth problems that you might be facing with the impossible starts that you listed. I usually do not find that being next to a bunch of Warmongers is a problem. They seem to enjoy fighting each other and it is not hard to get them all on your side with some Maneuvering. This is not to say that I never lose on Deity! I never said that on this post and it was not meant to imply that. I lose plenty but it is not because the game or the start was unwinnable! It was more about the mistakes that I made.

Denkt said:

Roleplay

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You got me here... although I do find it hard to roleplay on Deity but I could see how it can be done.

stormtrooper412 said:

My playstyle is actually a combination of the three. I mean, how else would you expect me to consistently win on Deity

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You have a good point here but I did try to adjust number 1 to say that you play without abusing the AI so now it would be harder to actually play all 3 choices in your game. You kinda have to choose between them now.

IronfighterXXX said:

@LoneRebel

On this forum were posted over fifty deity challenges, many deity GOTMs, all were won.

It's not our task to prove that UFO doesn't exist but it's task for people who believe in UFO prove that it exist. (for our discussion replace UFO with impossible map)

Click to expand...

And did any of these deity challenges have ridiculously poor starting dirt, the kind that gets put on the funny screenshots thread? That is what I am referring to.

The problem with saying ALL starts can be won on Deity (as opposed to "most", or "almost all"), is that just one example is enough to disprove it. That's why it's a good idea to avoid making absolutist statements.

LoneRebel said:

And did any of these deity challenges have ridiculously poor starting dirt, the kind that gets put on the funny screenshots thread? That is what I am referring to.

The problem with saying ALL starts can be won on Deity (as opposed to "most", or "almost all"), is that just one example is enough to disprove it. That's why it's a good idea to avoid making absolutist statements.

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Can you then prove this by posting an impossible random start.

I'll roll on the weekend. I'm too busy during my evenings otherwise. Seriously, land trade routes with a flat snow/mountain/tundra start won't mean anything. You can turtle for SV but not when Korea started on grassland on the other continent.

Warmongers are not an issue unless you have nothing to bribe them with, in which case you are the weakest link and here come's Shakka's carpet.

Can you normally get a landlocked Venice? Or a Venice near a small water mass that will get at most 2-3 coastal cities?

claudiupb said:

Can you normally get a landlocked Venice? Or a Venice near a small water mass that will get at most 2-3 coastal cities?

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The starting bias for Venice is the best coastal, so theoretically you could have really really good coastal tiles, that are on a small inland, landlocked "ocean". I've had a couple starts with Venice where the land tiles are crap, but most of the coastal/ocean tiles have some sort of resource in them. Not sure how "bad" of a start it is, since getting fishing fixes a chunk of the issue.

Landlocked would only happen on a map like Great Plains, where there's really no ocean/sea tiles to speak of; because of that coastal tile bias.

I play by #3 mostly except I REFUSE to stunt growth... (so now I understand how Fluphen only gets by with 3 workers and a whole bunch of unimproved tiles as well as tiny, scattered cities all game... he wants to not grow so much to give AI a chance! )

I will not bribe AIs to war however (cheesy... bribe them so you can win IG for example I don't do that, if I win IG it's because my cities are production giants)... and I will not trade gpt for lump gold only to DoW once DoF expires...
I will also not use nukes, nor submarines offensively, only in a defensive war (AIs suck at naval combat)

I will trade my strategic resources in bulks of 2 or 5, and not 1 by 1 (it's tedious renewing them!)
I never war offensively to get cities/wonders (I never war except to liberate a friend's cities and prevent a warmonger from getting out of control)


I will, however, use any other cheesy trick not covered above settling cities in weird places then selling to block off certain chokes, surround a friend's city to prevent it from getting captured, blocking settlers with mass scouts, worker stealing/caravan plundering in early wars, and buying coal from certain AIs to prevent them from getting ideology.

Have you tried Artificial Unintelligence in the mods forum yet? When the AI goes rationalism, and can move and fire, the game becomes much more interesting.

Give that a try on Deity, and see if you're crushing every game.

Fluphen Azine said:

High horse huh? Ok... let me step down a bit here so that you might understand. This was just a thought nothing I was saying was trying to imply that I am being egotistical about the game. I do not see how playing optimal is the same as abusing the AI? I guess I need to clarify what I meant by playing optimal. I meant that you play the game using math and going out of your way NOT to abuse the AI. I do not play this way but I notice the players who do seem to have no problems winning the game on Deity very fast.

I do not see how you can't win every game on Deity no matter the starts you roll. It is pretty easy to turtle up and get an SV no matter the start as I think other players have proven over and over again but we will be waiting for your impossible map that you are going to roll? Remember Internal Trade routes fix pretty much any growth problems that you might be facing with the impossible starts that you listed. I usually do not find that being next to a bunch of Warmongers is a problem. They seem to enjoy fighting each other and it is not hard to get them all on your side with some Maneuvering. This is not to say that I never lose on Deity! I never said that on this post and it was not meant to imply that. I lose plenty but it is not because the game or the start was unwinnable! It was more about the mistakes that I made.



You got me here... although I do find it hard to roleplay on Deity but I could see how it can be done.



You have a good point here but I did try to adjust number 1 to say that you play without abusing the AI so now it would be harder to actually play all 3 choices in your game. You kinda have to choose between them now.

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There are certain games that are quite unwinnable to the average deity player (say runaway isolated Korea)
or at least unwinnable by the VCs that do not rely on AIs being stupid (i.e. diplomatic victory, t350 SV because AIs too stupid to launch) for example.

But since you can always go conquer better lands I'd say for pros almost nothing is unwinnable (except if they have bad terrain AND are isolated with no way of warring until navigation)

btw spawning next to a bunch of warmongers is OK, what happens when you spawn with ONE warmonger and a bunch of wonderwhores/softies (and wonderwhores would rather lose their capitol or die than not beat you one turn to a wonder... true story I've seen it)? The warmonger wipes out all your friends and runs away with all those wonders and you are left alone on your continent with him for example...