Exploration Continued Expanded (Obsolete)

janboruta · Feb 11, 2015

JFD said:
@Janboruta Have removed the ocean movement penalty in the update above, but I am concerned this will both devalue the worth of scurvy immunity and decrease the impact of scurvy upon exploration. As for Forests, by the time you get a 19th century army in-game, you should cover enough land with your borders, or with roads (both of which make you immune to the attrition), that those scarce patches of thick forest deserve to suck them into oblivion. And as you cannot build a Lumber Mill outside your borders, a Worker would have no problems building them in thick forest. As in the change list: "when outside your borders."

Dammit, I need bigger glasses already. (not being hungover would also help

). This concern is nullified then.

My main point about the Ocean movement penalty being bad, is that the ships themselves were rather fast (it only took a year for Magellan's expedition to circumnavigate the planet, even though they used the earliest types of ocean-going ships available, and trans-Atlantic trade was so commonplace by the 17th and 18th centuries that limiting movement wouldn't make much sense, even in the game.). Most of the world's coastlines were mapped by the late 17th century, while the exploration of the interiors was tedious. That is very properly reflected with other elements of Attrition.

If this is a concern, I would balance the normal movement speed with more powerful Scurvy, and ships could fall prey to the elements a tiny bit more often prior to Industrial era.

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

TranquilSilence said:
Thanks, will try the update now.

It seems that even though Barbarians do not start with great scouts, they still can spawn them and utilise them. I'm not sure if this is the case with the update linked above however.

I'll stop doing cheap workarounds then

LastSword said:
I think you can set UnitClassGoodyHutUpgrade in database. Don't forget about replacements.
The extra movement on the ocean may be randomized (storms, calm). On the other hand, I have a weakness to random effects so it may be not the best idea.

I am curious if starting units have those effects. Are they instantly removed from Jungle starting plot? I don't know if it would be easy to disable effects before first city founded.

Theocrat LastSword always brings bad tidings

I think people still want to keep their Scout-Archers, but IDK. It would be easy enough to disable the effects for starting units, I just wanted to get some practical feedback on the matter before doing anything about it.

janboruta said:
My main point about the Ocean movement penalty being bad, is that the ships themselves were rather fast (it only took a year for Magellan's expedition to circumnavigate the planet, even though they used the earliest types of ocean-going ships available, and trans-Atlantic trade was so commonplace by the 17th and 18th centuries that limiting movement wouldn't make much sense, even in the game.). Most of the world's coastlines were mapped by the late 17th century, while the exploration of the interiors was tedious. That is very properly reflected with other elements of Attrition.

If this is a concern, I would balance the normal movement speed with more powerful Scurvy, and ships could fall prey to the elements a tiny bit more often prior to Industrial era.

I know, but I put the gameplay-foot down. I'll wait to see how it actually plays... if it plays

janboruta · Feb 11, 2015

LastSword said:
The extra movement on the ocean may be randomized (storms, calm).

I... I want this. :blush:

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

What is it? And how would it work? Ships occassionally have less or more movement, or something?

Zantonius Hamm · Feb 11, 2015

If storms can be added, then natural disasters should as well.

LastSword · Feb 11, 2015

JFD said:
Theocrat LastSword always brings bad tidings

I think people still want to keep their Scout-Archers, but IDK. It would be easy enough to disable the effects for starting units, I just wanted to get some practical feedback on the matter before doing anything about it.

Lol, don't feel so insecure.

I don't know. Starting completely surrounding by jungle or moving starting settler isn't so uncommon so I found this matter interesting/important.

At least, Jan got my positive vibes of ideas.
I meant that Ocean can randomly cost 1 or 2 movement. I should write "Extra movement cost...". Though, you can make it randomly cost 0/1/2. Or even 0-120 for coders

.

janboruta · Feb 11, 2015

JFD said:
What is it? And how would it work? Ships occassionally have less or more movement, or something?

Yeah, exactly. Like they would get a randomly chosen promotion each turn (with Mild Breeze occuring most often):

Opposite Winds - -2 movement points
Calm - -1 movement point
Mild Breeze - no change to movement points
Good Winds - +1 movement point
Gale - +2 movement points, takes 15 HP damage

I don't want to go into wind directions though.

Triremes and Galeasses have oars, so should be indepenent from wind - but they could be affected by that system for the sake of gameplay. Of course, Industrial era and more modern ships shouldn't be affected. But they still should have a chance to get damaged or destroyed (to simulate disasters and the Bermuda triangle)

Bermuda triangle could be a system, even. Make the game choose an ocean area of several tiles, where ships have an increased chance of disappearing.

Zantonius Hamm · Feb 11, 2015

So many things to do, so few modders...

Fedatur · Feb 11, 2015

Free settler from liberty social policy did not get attrition immune.

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

Is it supposed to?

Fedatur · Feb 11, 2015

Not sure in terms of ballnce but, what if change Great Lighthouse effect to "Units trained in city in which its buld suffer no scurvy"

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

Could do.

Fedatur · Feb 11, 2015

JFD said:
Is it supposed to?

I dunno. For me its kinda logical that if your city near jungles all units that spawn near must be immune to attrition. Maybe its just impossible :/

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

Ok, will do that in the next update.

Fedatur · Feb 11, 2015

"ExCE (Colonies)" Left the most delicious (for me) for the end.
Currently testing new version, everythiung seems ok for 85 turns, so seems that new version is working.
Scurvy is deadly. Maybe i'm too unlucky but 6 triremes lost.

Does disbanding in thick forests depends on some new DLL introdused in latest patch? Cuz currently in my outdated version my scout runing around a 5 tiled forest and nothing happens.

JFD · Feb 11, 2015

Fedatur said:
Currently testing new version, everythiung seems ok for 85 turns, so seems that new version is working.

That's a relief

Fedatur said:
Scurvy is deadly. Maybe i'm too unlucky but 6 triremes lost.

At 5% chance, that's some rotten luck. All you need now is one to be hit by a comet

Fedatur · Feb 11, 2015

JFD said:
At 5% chance, that's some rotten luck. All you need now is one to be hit by a comet

I think there is some kind of shipeating monster like Kraken or so.

EDIT: About thick forest, so right now my warrior get lost in jungles, so its not the matter of version. Seems that chance is really small (though 10th trireme lost in ocean :/)
Or maybe scouts are immune to disbanding.
If I was creator of ExCE i'd change Scurve to disband only in open ocean, but ok. Adding more hardcoreness on archipelago map.

Bonci · Feb 11, 2015

Hello! My game keeps crashing to windows after I click next turn on turn 1.
I tried enabling only ExCE and the community patch and it works fine, but then when I enable also Piety and Prestige, with cultural diversity, bad things happen!

Here is my lua log:

Spoiler :

Hope this can help!

Ok the forum won't let me post the whole thing (too many chars) so here is a shortened version. Let me know if you need more!

TLhikan · Feb 11, 2015

Does the Woodman promotion give immunity to Thick Forest instant loss? And does the scurvy immunity apply only to regular Polynesia, or is there compatibility for the More Civs Polynesia pack (or is that their job

)?

Awesome looking mod, I can't wait to try it out!

TranquilSilence · Feb 11, 2015

Would it be possible to grant the civs that gain the pacific island bonuses in CulDiv scurvy immunity for their starting units as well. I can imagine the loss of that starting scout and warrior to scurvy would be a tad annoying.

It also seems that at least the Sacred Groves belief is not granting the appropriate yields to Oak and Cedar tiles. No idea if this affects the other belief however.

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