Esential civs for a TSL Huge Earth experience, post BNW?

EricTheGreat12 said:

sorry but I dont get something: what does TSL mean ??

Click to expand...

True Start Location

For better geographic coverage (my preferred Civs are listed first in case of multple Civs fitting geographically):
1:Celts/Egypt
2:France
3ortugal/Spain
4:Carthage/Morocco
5:Songhai
6:Zulu
7:Ethiopia/Egypt
8:Iroquois
9:Babylon/Assyria/Persia/Arabs
10:India
11:Siam
12:Indonesia
13:Huns placed North of the Black Sea (I really want Khazars)
14:China
15:Mongols
16:Russia
17:Byzantium/Ottomans
18:Germany/Austria/Poland
19:Sweden
20:Aztecs/Maya
21:Brazil
22:Inca

If only we had Inuit and plains Indian civs to fill in North America!

TRusheeRush said:

For better geographic coverage (my preferred Civs are listed first in case of multple Civs fitting geographically):
1:Celts/Egypt
2:France
3ortugal/Spain
4:Carthage/Morocco
5:Songhai
6:Zulu
7:Ethiopia/Egypt
8:Iroquois
9:Babylon/Assyria/Persia/Arabs
10:India
11:Siam
12:Indonesia
13:Huns placed North of the Black Sea (I really want Khazars)
14:China
15:Mongols
16:Russia
17:Byzantium/Ottomans
18:Germany/Austria/Poland
19:Sweden
20:Aztecs/Maya
21:Brazil
22:Inca

If only we had Inuit and plains Indian civs to fill in North America!

Click to expand...

Where's England?

ImperialChaos said:

How many city-states?

Click to expand...

I think the city-state limit is 41.

My list again but with underline for preferred civs, because TRusheeRush inspired me to:

Ancient World (sorry by the conflicting area..)
Persia
Greece
Rome
Carthage
Celts
China
India
Egypt
Japan
Indonesia
Assyria
Ethiopia
Mongolia
Huns
Maya
Aztec
Inca
Polinesia
Sian
Denmark/Germany
Babylon

OH man...

So I plan to modify the Play The World Extended: Marathon (GIGANTIC true-start Earth map available in the steam workshop, you can modify it using the world builder) map to include my choice of 22 civs. I've already made my list. Unlike the original version of this map available for download, my version will not include any civs in the Americas. All 22 civs will be old world:

1) Portugal
2) France
3) Celts
4) Sweden
5) Poland
6) Russia
7) Greece
8) Carthage
9) Egypt
10) Songhai
11) Zulu
12) Assyria
13) Babylon**
14) Persia
15) The Huns
16) Mongolia
17) India
18) China
19) Korea
20) Japan
21) Siam
22) Indonesia

** Since Babylon/Assyria would be too close for true starts to be realistic, I'm placing babylon slightly north of the middle east, between the Black and Caspian seas, like modern-day Georgia/far southern Russia.

Medieval/Renaissance (It will not work as I wanted, because civilizations will be about the same age, in other words, the Aztecs can start the navigations and discover Europe... And for me, Native American Tribes works like barbarian. Sorry Hiawatha.)

Arabia
Morroco
Ottomans
England
France
Spain
Neetherland
Portugal
Ethiopia
China
India
Japan
Sian
Aztec
Inca
Russia
Mongolia
Korea
Denmark
Austria
Persia
Sweden
Germany
*Venice

1. USA
2. Iroqouis
3. Aztec
4. Brazil
5. New Native American Civ
6. Japan
7. Polynesia
8. Indonesia
9. India
10. China
11. Mongolia
12. Arabia
13. Byzantium
14. France
15. Russia
16. Rome
17. Sweden
18. Ethiopia
19. Songhai
20. Zulu
21. Morocco
22. Egypt

Hmm, I'm currently playing a TSL game with Y(N)AEMP as Arabia, and this is my current roster:



There are obviously a few things I'm going to do differently for my next TSL games on the same map (I want to start one as Spain sometime before July), and of course there are the changes induced by BNW. I'll go over each region separately.

New World
Obviously, Brazil deserves a look simply because it's the only other South American civ. There's also the much-speculated possibility of another North American native tribe to consider. Ideally, both would be included alongside what I already have simply because the Americas have a lot of land without many choices of civs to populate it. Assuming the default civ cap remains at a meager 22, it would be difficult to decide who to cut...probably the Aztecs.

Africa
The Zulu are a definite inclusion..if I can find room. Morocco would replace Carthage, but only when Spain isn't on the map - I don't want them taking the tasty Rock of Gibraltar from poor Isabella.

Middle East
An easily-changed toss-up between a number of civs: Byzantium or Ottomans is the obvious choice, but as I intend on replacing the Arabs with something further east, do I go with Babylon, Assyria, or even Persia?

Europe
The way I see it is there is room for no more than 5 civs in Europe. Ideally, this means Celts/England in the Isles, Portugal/Spain in Iberia, France/Rome/Germany/Netherlands/Austria(/Venice if it's included) in the central-ish region, Denmark/Sweden in Scandinavia, and Russia/Poland/maybe the Huns to the east. This region, due to the disproportionately large number of civs compared to land area, is basically mix-and-match to suit my purposes.

Asia
Indonesia will probably replace either Mongolia or Polynesia, maybe Korea.

So, assuming I end up doing a TSL earth map as Spain post-BNW, here's what I'm thinking given what we currently know about the new civs:

For a TSL Earth Map? Hmmm

1: Iroquois
2: America
3: Maya
4: Brazil
5: Inca
6: Zulu
7: Ethiopia
8: Morocco
9: Songhai
10: Egypt
11: Portugal
12: Siam
13: England
14: Poland
15: Polynesia
16: Russia
17: Persia
18: India
19: China
20: Indonesia
21: Mongolia
22: Japan

North America
1. Iroquois (Since I prefer them to America)
2. Shoshone (Since they are a new civ)
3. Maya (Since I prefer them to Aztec)

South America
4. Inca (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
5. Brazil (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)

Oceania
6. Polynesia with New Zealand Capital (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
7. Indonesia (Since they are a new civ)

Asia
8. Japan (Since I prefer them to Korea)
9. Siam (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
10.China (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
11. Mongolia (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
12. India (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)

Africa
13. Songhai (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
14. Ethiopia (Since they are the only cantidate for that geography)
15. Zulu (Since they are a new civ)
16. Morocco (Since they are a new civ)

Eurasia/Middle East
17. Assyria (Since they are a new civ)
18. Huns (Capital in Khazakstan)

Europe
19. Poland (Since they are a new civ)
20. Portugal (Since they are a new civ)
21. France (Since they have new features)
22. Venice (Since they are a new civ)

This is my list:

North America:
1. America
2. Aztec

South America:
3. Inca
4. Brazil

Europe:
5. England
6. France
7. Germany
8. Spain
9. Russia
10. Rome
11. Sweden
12. Poland

Middle East/Africa:
13. Egypt
14. Zulu
15. Songhai
16. Ottomans

Asia/Pacific:
17. China
18. India
19. Persia
20. Japan
21. Indonesia
22. Polynesia

I haven't played a TSL in a while. If I upgrade my computer this month I might again...

If I do I would probably use Gedemon's mod to go over 22:

Europe is such a small continent, that if you don't give enough space it sort of ruins the ability of the AI to compete or creates a too powerful Hegemon as one leverages power over the others. You can't have many civs in Europe if you want a competitive TSL

Americas:
1. America
2. Iroquois
3. Maya
4. Brazil
5. Inca

Africa:
6. Ethiopia
7. Morocco
8. Songhai
9. Zulu
10. Carthage

Middle East:
11. Persia
12. Ottomans

Europe:
13. Germany
14. Greece
15. Russia
16. Spain

Asia:
17. India
18. Siam
19. China
20. Mongolia
21. Indonesia
22. Polynesia

=========
If I chose a few more, I would also include England, Egypt, Rome, Sweden, and Japan

Americas:
1. Aztec
2. Iroquois
3. Maya
4. Brazil

Africa:
5. Egypt (Also considered Middle Eastern)
6. Morocco
7. Zulu
8. Carthage

Middle East:
9. Persia
10. Ottomans

Europe:
11: Celts (Represents England, Ireland, and France)
12. Denmark (Represents Germanic and Scandinavian people)
13. Rome (Italy + Southern Europe)
14. Russia
15. Spain

Asia:
16: Korea
17. India
18. Siam
19. China
20. Mongolia
21. Indonesia
22. Polynesia

Add in 41 city states

Interesting lists posted so far! I think I will defer my selection until the last 2 Civs are confirmed, just in case we get someone really random as well as Venice...

It's not that bad with 34 civs in Europe region on the Gedemon Giant Map.

This takes into the personalities of the leaders, (aka aggressive leaders that like to expand a lot), and geographical placement.

Americas
Iroqouis {Both these could be changed due}
Aztec {to possible native american civ}
America
Inca
Brazil

Africa
Zulu
Ethiopia
Morocco
Egypt
Songhai

Europe
Portugal
Sweden
Germany
Poland
Greece{could be changed to Rome or Venice if its included}
Russia

Asia
Arabia
Assyria
India
Indonesia
China
Mongolia

I largely agree with Seancolorado, i like your spread! (i even liked your format so much i stole it!) I would make a few changes though... Here's my justification:

North and South America account for 29% of the worlds land mass (about a 16.5:12.5 split).
Asia accounts for another 30%
Europe (to the urals and caucasus) accounts for about 7%
Africa accounts for another 20%
Oceania (Australia and the pacific islands) accounts for another 5%
Antartica accounts for around 9% - this portion is written off for obvious reasons

That leaves a good 91% of the earths land mass inhabited by civilizations. For a good fair game, i'd want a good fair spread where everyone has around the same competition and area to expand.

So with 22 civs, that means roughly 1 civ for every 4% of earths land mass. That will account for 88% of the land mass, and the extra awkward 3% can just be cut from asia and north america because of the crazy tundra. So for a good map spread here are my choices:



Americas, 6 civs:

1. Iroquois: Starting around the Eastern Great Lakes
2. Aztecs: Starting in Northern Mexico (historically the Nahua people migrated south from northern mexico to found th aztec empire)
3. [Speculated North American civ]: Starting in a midwestern/western location, depending on the civ. Probably positioned slightly more north than historically located.
4. Maya: Starting in southern Guatemala/Honduras for expansion into South America
5. Brazil: Positioned in very southern Brazil, around Sao Paulo/rio
6. Inca: Positioned in western mid Peru

Europe, 2 civs:

7. France/Germany: I'd prefer France to give a bit more space between this civ and Russia/Ottomans
8. Russia: Starting in Moscow region, also allows for Asian expansion

Africa 5 civs:

9. Morocco/Carthage: Either would do allowing for African and European expansion
10. Egypt: potential for asian, european and african expansion, not trapped in a peninsula like arabia
11. Ethiopia: filling out the east
12. Songhai: filling out the west
13. Zulu: filling out the south


Asia and Oceania, 9 civs:

14: Ottomans/Byzantium: i would prefer the ottomans, but the fit the same spot
15: Babylon/Assyria: I would prefer Babylon starting in Iraq for some more distance from the ottomans/byzantium
16: Persia: starting north of modern day iran, close to the caspian sea for a more competitive central asia and easing the pressure on the middle east.
17. Mongolia: starting in central mongolia to fill out the plains
18. China: starting in north east china
19. India: starting in north/north west india
20. Siam: Starting in northern thailand/myanmar
21. Indonesia: Starting on java for distance from siam
22. Polynesia: starting probably in New zealand allowing for some more expansion opportunities and greater competition for indonesia


Civs not listed at all:
America - Trying to avoid the european american civs (bitten the bullet for brazil) and occupies a similar location to the Iroquois
Arabia: caught in a peninsula in a cluttered area
England - island civs generally have difficultly expanding, particularly near continental civs who can much easier, also limited space in europe
Celts - Same as above
Spain - Too close to Morocco, not enough space in europe
Portugal - Same as Spain
Germany - Too close to france, europe problem
Sweden - Icy area not often settled by the human player
Denmark - Same as above
Huns - No need for them
Austria - too close to germany
[Venice] - cluttered europe
Rome - "
Netherlands - "
Poland - "
Greece - too close to ottomans
Korea - Could have been China or Korea, but China is too important to leave out
Japan - They start on a relatively small 'island'. Unlike Indonesia and Polynesia, no UA incentive to justify

Well most "European" Civs are/were not really just European.

Lets take Russia, Rome and Byzantium as examples. Almost half of Roman kingdom was in Africa and Asia. Most of Russia was and still is part of Asia. Most of Byzantium was in Asia and Africa.