Early NC not needed on Immortal?

Astennu

Warlord
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
123
Hey guys, recently I've been opting for slight variations to the standard early NC at all costs strategy.

Started a game as Rome last night, Immortal, Epic, Huge Map (12 civs 24 CS) and opted for early Wonder Rushing (I'm a bit of a wonder hog)

Snagged Stonehenge and Temple of Artemis, (probably only got ToA since I took the 15% ancient/classical wonder production pantheon) and then beelined for Currency and somehow got Petra. I unfortunately missed out on Oracle though.

As you'd imagine I got National College very late, after turn 150 on epic. The strange thing is that by Renaissance I wasn't too far off the tech leader despite neglecting science early game (by Industrial/Modern I was tech leader) I attribute this to a few factors.

-By getting Stonehenge and ToA I managed to snag TWO great engineers before my first GS. Odd I know, but I snagged Pisa, Forbidden Palace and Porcelain Tower.
- I was able to generate GS quicker with Pisa and PT and of course received a free one too.
- I went for full Patronage and allied 10+ city states. Scholasticism provided a huge science boost.
- My closest neighbor was Sejong, who is usually kill on sight for me. He had Colossus in Seoul. Thanks to Legions and Ballista I was just to capture it (with some difficulty as he had a lot of jungle around his capital) The extra trade routes from Petra and Colossus provided me with needed growth.
- I focused on early culture and faith ALOT. I allied Lhasa and Brussels and got my second city to work EL Dorado and totally neglected its growth. This allowed me to fill out most of Patronage fairly quickly and dip into Rationalism. My research agreements were increased 100% by Pisa and policies. I was able to buy a GE to snag Prora for even more policies.
-My UA would help a bit, in that Universities and Public Schools were built that just bit quicker in my non capital cities.
- The policy from Autocracy which allows faster tech stealing is golden

I am now well in the tech leader at turn 400 or so, with full Patronage and the Total War Policy (autocracy) recently unlocked. I've just won the World Fair, built Big Ben and have Mercantalism. Long story short, I'm in prime position to dominate my continent, Sejong has already fallen. I also have Brandenburg Gate in Rome, meaning I will have very highly experienced troops.

All in all, it has been extremely satisfying just playing as I'd like in the early game without a strict science focus. Even though my BPT was pretty poor, the things I've listed above have really made up for it and I'll try and play games like this in future.
 
NC isn't even needed on Deity. I proved that to myself recently. I need military to rush my neighbors, before I discover the other civs in the game (and they discover me). You get more science if you get more cities.
 
I think the only time you really "need" an early national college are certain domination-strategies, other than that you can completely skip it for a long time and still do very well. It's considered to be the building that boosts your empire the most and if you want quick finish times then you'll probably need it, but if you just want to win the game, then you can of course delay it in favor of other things that boost your empire, even on Deity.
 
Hey guys, recently I've been opting for slight variations to the standard early NC at all costs strategy.

Started a game as Rome last night, Immortal, Epic, Huge Map (12 civs 24 CS) and opted for early Wonder Rushing (I'm a bit of a wonder hog)

Snagged Stonehenge and Temple of Artemis, (probably only got ToA since I took the 15% ancient/classical wonder production pantheon) and then beelined for Currency and somehow got Petra. I unfortunately missed out on Oracle though.

As you'd imagine I got National College very late, after turn 150 on epic. The strange thing is that by Renaissance I wasn't too far off the tech leader despite neglecting science early game (by Industrial/Modern I was tech leader) I attribute this to a few factors.

-By getting Stonehenge and ToA I managed to snag TWO great engineers before my first GS. Odd I know, but I snagged Pisa, Forbidden Palace and Porcelain Tower.
- I was able to generate GS quicker with Pisa and PT and of course received a free one too.
- I went for full Patronage and allied 10+ city states. Scholasticism provided a huge science boost.
- My closest neighbor was Sejong, who is usually kill on sight for me. He had Colossus in Seoul. Thanks to Legions and Ballista I was just to capture it (with some difficulty as he had a lot of jungle around his capital) The extra trade routes from Petra and Colossus provided me with needed growth.
- I focused on early culture and faith ALOT. I allied Lhasa and Brussels and got my second city to work EL Dorado and totally neglected its growth. This allowed me to fill out most of Patronage fairly quickly and dip into Rationalism. My research agreements were increased 100% by Pisa and policies. I was able to buy a GE to snag Prora for even more policies.
-My UA would help a bit, in that Universities and Public Schools were built that just bit quicker in my non capital cities.
- The policy from Autocracy which allows faster tech stealing is golden

I am now well in the tech leader at turn 400 or so, with full Patronage and the Total War Policy (autocracy) recently unlocked. I've just won the World Fair, built Big Ben and have Mercantalism. Long story short, I'm in prime position to dominate my continent, Sejong has already fallen. I also have Brandenburg Gate in Rome, meaning I will have very highly experienced troops.

All in all, it has been extremely satisfying just playing as I'd like in the early game without a strict science focus. Even though my BPT was pretty poor, the things I've listed above have really made up for it and I'll try and play games like this in future.

Can you please post a savegame from that game?
 
One piece of advice for you. If you want to delay the NC and focus on planting cities etc, firstly keep a lookout for mountains you can settle next to for the observatory - this is the equivalent of a NC.

Also use cargo ships to grow large cities, as that will generate lots if science too.
 
It's pretty hard to get too far behind in tech in BNW as long as you just develop your empire. You get bonuses on researching techs that other civs you have met already know, and trade routes, both yours and the ones the AI runs to you, generate a good amount of early science on higher levels.

You won't be in the tech lead until Ideologies come around (which causes some people all kinds of palpitations), but if you have a solid empire then, you'll blast past any small tech leader.
 
it's hard to see how a game wouldn't be more of a PITA to finish if you didn't stop and knock the NC out early-ish on. are you guys strictly talking a standard turtle game, or comparing this issue to any strategy whatsoever, e.g. Liberty/Honor/godknowswhat?
 
I almost always take my time with National College. At some point, fairly early, I'll gold-buy libraries and grab it, but I'm not gonna stop settling or developing to do it. I typically think about it only after I've built all the cities I can and have hit the first, wait for more happiness lag-phase. It's easy to get in then after I've finished competing with the AI for early city-spots.

My last Immortal game as Rome I had entirely killed off my close neighbor zulu before I gave it a thought. I wanted to get him while my UU's had the advantage before his impi arrived. Worked like a charm. There are just a lot of considerations, military and impending wars being a big one, and as Ryika said you can win with tons of strategies. If you want the fastest end-time ever, maybe its important, but for winning and outpacing AI in science? You don't need it early...you just need to be a decent player.
 
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