Tech Tree Discussion

@Vokarya

So I have been looking at some techs from Realism Invictus and I wondered how you would convert them to C2C.

- Rudder
- Food Preservation
- Patent Rights
- Minority Rights
Are this techs approved for after the freeze?
 
From Prehistoric to Transhuman Era these Techs currently do not provide any sort of benefit, they are currently just placeholders.

1. Mosaic Working
2. Imperialism
3. Mine Warfare
4. Cosmology
5. Television
6.3D Printing

May we should add content to them before adding new techs?
 
@strategyonly

I added in a few more prehistoric buildings. Hopefully this will give you more to do.

If you need more stuff i can suggest these that experts agree were part of prehistoric entertainment :

Buildings
Rock Art / Rock Engraving
Exotic Stones Collection
Fertility Festival
Hunting Games / Hunting Rites
Raft Racing
Adolescence Ceremony
Animal Skin Drums
Carved Flute

Spoiler :
Art and music


The Venus of Willendorf is one of the most famous Venus figurines.
Early examples of artistic expression, such as the Venus of Tan-Tan and the patterns found on elephant bones from Bilzingsleben in Thuringia, may have been produced by Acheulean tool users such as Homo erectus prior to the start of the Middle Paleolithic period. However, the earliest undisputed evidence of art during the Paleolithic period comes from Middle Paleolithic/Middle Stone Age sites such as Blombos Cave in the form of bracelets,[59] beads,[60] rock art,[44] and ochre used as body paint and perhaps in ritual.[30][44] Undisputed evidence of art only becomes common in the following Upper Paleolithic period.[61]

According to Robert G. Bednarik, Lower Paleolithic Acheulean tool users began to engage in symbolic behavior such as art around 850,000 BP and decorated themselves with beads and collected exotic stones for aesthetic rather than utilitarian qualities.[62] According to Bednarik, traces of the pigment ochre from late Lower Paleolithic Acheulean archeological sites suggests that Acheulean societies, like later Upper Paleolithic societies, collected and used ochre to create rock art.[62] Nevertheless, it is also possible that the ochre traces found at Lower Paleolithic sites is naturally occurring.[63]

Vincent W. Fallio interprets Lower and Middle Paleolithic marking on rocks at sites such as Bilzingsleben (such as zig zagging lines) as accounts or representation of altered states of consciousness[64] though some other scholars interpret them as either simple doodling or as the result of natural processes.

Upper Paleolithic humans produced works of art such as cave paintings, Venus figurines, animal carvings and rock paintings.[31] Upper Paleolithic art can be divided into two broad categories: figurative art such as cave paintings that clearly depicts animals (or more rarely humans); and nonfigurative, which consists of shapes and symbols.[31] Cave paintings have been interpreted in a number of ways by modern archeologists. The earliest explanation, by the prehistorian Abbe Breuil, interpreted the paintings as a form of magic designed to ensure a successful hunt.[65] However, this hypothesis fails to explain the existence of animals such as saber-toothed cats and lions, which were not hunted for food, and the existence of half-human, half-animal beings in cave paintings. The anthropologist David Lewis-Williams has suggested that Paleolithic cave paintings were indications of shamanistic practices, because the paintings of half-human, half-animal paintings and the remoteness of the caves are reminiscent of modern hunter-gatherer shamanistic practices.[65] Symbol-like images are more common in Paleolithic cave paintings than are depictions of animals or humans, and unique symbolic patterns might have been trademarks that represent different Upper Paleolithic ethnic groups.[66] Venus figurines have evoked similar controversy. Archeologists and anthropologists have described the figurines as representations of goddesses, pornographic imagery, apotropaic amulets used for sympathetic magic, and even as self-portraits of women themselves.[30][67]

R. Dale Guthrie[68] has studied not only the most artistic and publicized paintings, but also a variety of lower-quality art and figurines, and he identifies a wide range of skill and ages among the artists. He also points out that the main themes in the paintings and other artifacts (powerful beasts, risky hunting scenes and the over-sexual representation of women) are to be expected in the fantasies of adolescent males during the Upper Paleolithic.

The Venus figurines have sometimes been interpreted as representing a mother goddess; the abundance of such female imagery has led some to believe that Upper Paleolithic (and later Neolithic) societies had a female-centered religion and a female-dominated society. For example, this was proposed by the archeologist Marija Gimbutas and the feminist scholar Merlin Stone who was the author of the 1978 book When God Was a Woman[69][70] Various other explanations for the purpose of the figurines have been proposed, such as Catherine McCoid and LeRoy McDermott’s hypothesis that the figurines were created as self portraits of actual women[67] and R.Dale Gutrie's hypothesis that the venus figurines represented a kind of "stone age pornography".

The origins of music during the Paleolithic are unknown, since the earliest forms of music probably did not use musical instruments but instead used the human voice and or natural objects such as rocks, which leave no trace in the archaeological record. However, the anthropological and archeological designation suggests that human music first arose when language, art and other modern behaviors developed in the Middle or the Upper Paleolithic period. Music may have developed from rhythmic sounds produced by daily activities such as cracking nuts by hitting them with stones, because maintaining a rhythm while working may have helped people to become more efficient at daily activities.[71] An alternative theory originally proposed by Charles Darwin explains that music may have begun as a hominid mating strategy as many birds and some other animals produce music like calls to attract mates.[72] This hypothesis is generally less accepted than the previous hypothesis, but it nonetheless provides a possible alternative. Another explanation is that humans began to make music simply because of the pleasure it produced.

Upper Paleolithic (and possibly Middle Paleolithic[73]) humans used flute-like bone pipes as musical instruments,[30][74] Music may have played a large role in the religious lives of Upper Paleolithic hunter-gatherers. Like in modern hunter-gatherer societies, music may have been used in ritual or to help induce trances. In particular, it appears that animal skin drums may have been used in religious events by Upper Paleolithic shamans, as shown by the remains of drum-like instruments from some Upper Paleolithic graves of shamans and the ethnographic record of contemporary hunter-gatherer shamanic and ritual practices
 
Some primitive graveyards could be a building.
Early hairdressers maybe? :)
Early bedding, so like a hut that makes prehistoric beds.
Early brothel or equivalent. "appears in Sumerian records from before 4000 BC"
This could lead to +crime from infanticide etc. (lack of contraception)

This gives me another idea- in SMAC (a game i played a lot) a lot of the civics affected growth, not simply because of agricultural practices like in c2c, but also because of idealogy for example religion could influence growth (contraception not allowed, abortion not allowed). Whereas something like atheism would have negative growth, more abortions etc. oh also abortion clinic as a building would be good (not prehistoric hehe) less revolt sentiment, +happiness.

An earlier spy unit would be nice. I think introducing espionage on a larger scale in prehistoric with different options would be great.

Another early tile improvement would be good too, maybe something like hunting zone, a tile that gets +1food +1 hammer where your people set lots of traps and hunt as a team in an organized way.

You could also make this improvement have a timed life, like only lasts 100 turns b4 your people exhaust it and need to rebuild it (takes like 20 turns or whatever).
 
From Prehistoric to Transhuman Era these Techs currently do not provide any sort of benefit, they are currently just placeholders.

1. Mosaic Working
2. Imperialism
3. Mine Warfare
4. Cosmology
5. Television
6.3D Printing

May we should add content to them before adding new techs?

I plan to use Imperialism for the Bayreuth Festspielhaus and Crystal Palace wonders. I need new XML tags for both to work the way I want them to, though.
 
I plan to use Imperialism for the Bayreuth Festspielhaus and Crystal Palace wonders. I need new XML tags for both to work the way I want them to, though.

IMO 3D printing should add +1 hammer to the cottage line.
 
An interesting twist to the tech tree would be to randomize it somewhat so each game you play you get a tech tree that is a bit different than the last time.
So instead of specifying direct dependencies you would place some restrictions (like tech A needs to be somewhat after tech B and the like) and a randomized algorithm then generates the actual tech tree for that game (maybe also a specific different tech tree for each player).
And instead of getting the a specific building or unit always at the same technology, it might be part of a certain set of techs.

While some dependencies in technology are kind of strict, others have been developed in different order by different people (or are unrelated enough that they can be considered independent).
 
An interesting twist to the tech tree would be to randomize it somewhat so each game you play you get a tech tree that is a bit different than the last time.
So instead of specifying direct dependencies you would place some restrictions (like tech A needs to be somewhat after tech B and the like) and a randomized algorithm then generates the actual tech tree for that game (maybe also a specific different tech tree for each player).
And instead of getting the a specific building or unit always at the same technology, it might be part of a certain set of techs.

While some dependencies in technology are kind of strict, others have been developed in different order by different people (or are unrelated enough that they can be considered independent).

I like this idea, but when i used to play Heroes III, they actually had a tech tree and a "fork" in the road, if you go one way its the "GOOD" way of righteousness,
but if you take the other one the "Evil" forces you more or less played like a "Villain" or War-monger. Just an idea.
 
From Prehistoric to Transhuman Era these Techs currently do not provide any sort of benefit, they are currently just placeholders.

1. Mosaic Working
2. Imperialism
3. Mine Warfare
4. Cosmology
5. Television
6.3D Printing

May we should add content to them before adding new techs?

1. I have plans for this. It also obsoletes Sand Paintings.
2. I think others have some ideas for this.
3. If we ever get the Mire Warfare mod working that's where all their stuff will go.
4. I think the Observatory gets a bonus at this already.
5. I have yet to move the TV studio and other related buildings over to this.
6. There was suggestions that it would boost cottages or even factories.

An interesting twist to the tech tree would be to randomize it somewhat so each game you play you get a tech tree that is a bit different than the last time.
So instead of specifying direct dependencies you would place some restrictions (like tech A needs to be somewhat after tech B and the like) and a randomized algorithm then generates the actual tech tree for that game (maybe also a specific different tech tree for each player).
And instead of getting the a specific building or unit always at the same technology, it might be part of a certain set of techs.

While some dependencies in technology are kind of strict, others have been developed in different order by different people (or are unrelated enough that they can be considered independent).

I highly dislike this. Its hard enough to balance things with them set. Now you want them to be random? If this is ever implemented it should be fat FAR down the road after things have settled down. We are not even done adding techs for goodness sakes!
 
I think we might have to adjust the tech costs for early ancient era now also, i am just at Pottery and it says 32 turns till next tech The Wheel then another 34 turns for that tech, and i have nothing to build in four cities, and i got stuck on a continent of Tundra where there is hardly any animals, besides Antelopes and Musk Oxen, some Beaver but not anything else. Its really boring on Snail. Just a thought, anyone else?? Or maybe its just that i am by myself on the continent with nothing to do??
 
I think you just got a bad spot. I remember getting a starting location like yours with the old prehistoric tec set up and everything seemed to go SO slow. Right now in my game I have an average starting location in a more temperate zone and I am doing fine.

Thus I think you just got a bad starting location. I suggest next time if you can to migrate away from the tundra to a more temperate zone before you plop down your first city. On snail its not going to be that much of a set back if you find a better location.
 
I think you just got a bad spot. I remember getting a starting location like yours with the old prehistoric tec set up and everything seemed to go SO slow. Right now in my game I have an average starting location in a more temperate zone and I am doing fine.

Thus I think you just got a bad starting location. I suggest next time if you can to migrate away from the tundra to a more temperate zone before you plop down your first city. On snail its not going to be that much of a set back if you find a better location.

Yeah, i believe your right, i am just testing every venue i can, and man oh man i believe this is the worst, Tundra settings for the whole continent.
 
I think we might have to adjust the tech costs for early ancient era now also, i am just at Pottery and it says 32 turns till next tech The Wheel then another 34 turns for that tech, and i have nothing to build in four cities, and i got stuck on a continent of Tundra where there is hardly any animals, besides Antelopes and Musk Oxen, some Beaver but not anything else. Its really boring on Snail. Just a thought, anyone else?? Or maybe its just that i am by myself on the continent with nothing to do??

I think the problem is your start spot, being the only one on your continent makes things really boring until Navigation, and on Snail that is a long while. I normally abandon games where I don't have a good start position and/or have no other civs on my starting landmass.
 
I think the problem is your start spot, being the only one on your continent makes things really boring until Navigation, and on Snail that is a long while. I normally abandon games where I don't have a good start position and/or have no other civs on my starting landmass.

Isolation early can make the game later more interesting though. England is just orders of magnitude more challenging to play than Russia (say), and when you finally get to invade Europe it makes for a much more interesting game. The problem is that prehistoric is very tedious in such an environment. Gamespeed is not the answer - some of us play on very slow speeds so we can savour the way the game changes over time and still have a chnace for serious strategy at each stage, which needs a slow speed. Trouble is that a nothing-to-do era is magnified by a slow speed. The fix is to have more to do, but that's easy to say, and harder to figure out how to achieve! I suspect I just need bigger maps, so that even the isolated 'islands' are large enough to support decent hunting and so on (and barbs).
 
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