Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
You have access to the SVN, why did you not put the icon in its place?
New Unit Review Notifications
- Thread starter Thunderbrd
- Start date
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I did not know where it was suppose to go.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
No one has down loaded it so expect no one else knows where it goes either.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
New unit line Master Hunters (M Tracker -> M Hunter -> M Warden -> M Game Hunter -> M Big Game Hunter)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Ok, looks like I've caught up to this point then. Thanks for letting me know about all those guys!
One interesting note... The Carrobalista - This is officially our first Siege/Mounted/Wheeled unit. Does it have any combat statistics that deals with the Siege side? I may want to also update the Carriage line beyond it somewhat so that Gatecrasher becomes a part of their reportoir and make it possible for advanced rams to upgrade into them. This would make them an interesting crossroads of the Carrobalista, War Chariot, and Ram types. Won't mess with it yet but it's an interesting concept... I made the Carrobalista a Field/Wooden siege weapon. I presume this is fairly similar to the normal Ballista units right?
One interesting note... The Carrobalista - This is officially our first Siege/Mounted/Wheeled unit. Does it have any combat statistics that deals with the Siege side? I may want to also update the Carriage line beyond it somewhat so that Gatecrasher becomes a part of their reportoir and make it possible for advanced rams to upgrade into them. This would make them an interesting crossroads of the Carrobalista, War Chariot, and Ram types. Won't mess with it yet but it's an interesting concept... I made the Carrobalista a Field/Wooden siege weapon. I presume this is fairly similar to the normal Ballista units right?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
The Carrobalista is not good at city attacking its more like having huge crossbow on a chariot. So its better at attacking infantry. Especially because its quick and mobile. So it would be more of a field artillery than a gate crasher.
And as for the level of technology still weaker than our Ballista unit and comes at the same time as the Scorpion unit. Overall its more like a primitive War Wagon than a Ballista.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sounds like I assigned correctly then. My point about the Gatecrasher was not for the Carrobalista but rather for the War Wagon which, if I'm not mistaken, has a ram attached?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
No war wagons are like the first armored cars. They can move fast are armored and shoot out projectiles. The War Wagon shoots out arrows or bolts. While the Siege Wagon shoot with firearms.
In short war wagons are NOT rams, they are the earliest armored vehicles.
Faustmouse
Deity
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So a War Wagon has one big Crossbow, like a Ballista or the Scorpion, right? Where there War Wagons with a Set of small "Windows" on each side were some X-Bowmen you sit in and shoot numberous enemies at the same time without beeing a good target themself? THis would make an interesting early Da Vinci Tank.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Correct.
Yup.
Note we already have a Da Vinci Tank. And the difference between them is the Da Vinci Tank complexity covers everyone. No exposed horses. Plus they have cannons sitting in a radial pattern.
Faustmouse
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Yes, that's why I said an early version of the Da vinci tank. Acessable for everyone and weaker (arrow instead of cannons, expossed horses etc).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Thunderbrd
Ok so I have been tweaking some future units in prep for some new ones. Please review the following units I tweaked ...
1. Automatons upgrade to Genetic Soldiers instead of Assault Mechs. So now its more linear
Automatons -> Genetic Soldier -> Super Soldier
Automatons -> Cyborgs -> Super Soldier
2. I tweaked the various Droids to be more direct as well ...
Walker Droid -> Assault Droid -> Siege Droid
3. The Walker Artillery was all messed up it came much to early so other units were obsolete before they were invented. I moved it to Super Strong alloy techs. The Walker Artillery is also not supose to be an assault mech but a Robotic Siege Weapon. I tried to chnage its CCs but I am not sure if I got it right. I also changed its resource requirements o more appropriate ones. Though I may chnage it along with other later since I think we have better resource choices now.
4. I will be posting some other future units later in the other unit thread. Just a heads up.
EDIT: Here is the post to the new units (Droid Tank, Droid Infantry, Android Infantry)
Ok so I have been tweaking some future units in prep for some new ones. Please review the following units I tweaked ...
1. Automatons upgrade to Genetic Soldiers instead of Assault Mechs. So now its more linear
Automatons -> Genetic Soldier -> Super Soldier
Automatons -> Cyborgs -> Super Soldier
2. I tweaked the various Droids to be more direct as well ...
Walker Droid -> Assault Droid -> Siege Droid
3. The Walker Artillery was all messed up it came much to early so other units were obsolete before they were invented. I moved it to Super Strong alloy techs. The Walker Artillery is also not supose to be an assault mech but a Robotic Siege Weapon. I tried to chnage its CCs but I am not sure if I got it right. I also changed its resource requirements o more appropriate ones. Though I may chnage it along with other later since I think we have better resource choices now.
4. I will be posting some other future units later in the other unit thread. Just a heads up.
EDIT: Here is the post to the new units (Droid Tank, Droid Infantry, Android Infantry)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Is this an upgrade path? I've always thought of these and mechs as being best as parallel units contemporary to one another rather than upgrades of each other.
Otherwise... notice received and I'll take a look soon.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yeah its an upgrade path, I just removed some upgrades like to the Mechs. Mainly because I want to do something like this ...
Spider Droids
Walker Droid -> Assault Droid -> Siege Droid
Humanoid Droids
Walker Droid -> Droid Infantry -> Android Infantry -> Cyborg
Note the Walker Droid is like Bigdog but with weapons.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@TB
I tweaked the Droids and stuff again. Some of the majot chances were adding Service Bot resource instead of Microchips (Service Bots have microchips in them). I also removed some redundant unit upgrades as well as one that made no sense.
However there was a huge chnage to the Scout Droid. It use to be a Scout Mech, which is why it has that tag. However many thing were left over from that such as it upgraded into mech units. So instead I had it upgrade to nothing (yet) and had the Walker Droid upgrade into it. Then I moved it from late Transhuman to Early Transhuman. Since that would be something we can nearly make already.
it has some Combat Classes I don't think it should have such as Heat, Cold, Sonic, etc. This should be a scouting droid, not an assault mech. At most it should have a small gun or something. Not even lasers and stuff. Perhaps it should even be defend only (maybe).
I tweaked the Droids and stuff again. Some of the majot chances were adding Service Bot resource instead of Microchips (Service Bots have microchips in them). I also removed some redundant unit upgrades as well as one that made no sense.
However there was a huge chnage to the Scout Droid. It use to be a Scout Mech, which is why it has that tag. However many thing were left over from that such as it upgraded into mech units. So instead I had it upgrade to nothing (yet) and had the Walker Droid upgrade into it. Then I moved it from late Transhuman to Early Transhuman. Since that would be something we can nearly make already.
it has some Combat Classes I don't think it should have such as Heat, Cold, Sonic, etc. This should be a scouting droid, not an assault mech. At most it should have a small gun or something. Not even lasers and stuff. Perhaps it should even be defend only (maybe).
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Heat, Cold, and Sonic weapons are mostly stun and suppression weapons which I figured would be the kind of thing a Scout Droid would be equipped with to help it get out of trouble. And I'm seeing Laser as a very small arms weapon system for the era... the larger versions would be Particle Accelerator Cannons (Ion Beam weapons.) By what I'm envisioning of future weapon systems, lasers are mostly anti-personnel weaponry that wouldn't be all that effective against the larger mech and droid units. Ballistic weaponry such as 'guns' become a reluctantly applied weapon given that they are more trouble than they are worth to have them functional in an oxygen-less atmosphere.
What you see on the charts is as Mechs and Droids proliferate, numerous weapon systems are being applied, more and more as time goes on. With the Scout Droid being a Droid level, I gave it pretty much ANYTHING that would be useful for its scouting role. Pretty much all intended to be 'light' weapon systems comparitively. Did you take a look at the weapon systems applied to the Assault Droid(s)? Much stronger.
Droids would be upgrades to Mech units right? Robotic versions of the large manned vehicles - Mechs (Pacific Rim battles were carried out by Mechs to draw a recent example). I wasn't sure why we removed the Mech Scout though I could see a point to a Droid Scout ALSO.
And all Recon generally can't attack so that's not unusual. We need some advancements to the motorcycle concept to carry the scout line through to bridge the gap to these larger and more advanced forms I think. Pre-Mech Scout should be a Hovercycle. Pre-Hovercycle should be a Bubble Bike (think Batman's solo ride in the 2nd movie) and something more modern for just before that stage and after the Motorcycle we have.
What you see on the charts is as Mechs and Droids proliferate, numerous weapon systems are being applied, more and more as time goes on. With the Scout Droid being a Droid level, I gave it pretty much ANYTHING that would be useful for its scouting role. Pretty much all intended to be 'light' weapon systems comparitively. Did you take a look at the weapon systems applied to the Assault Droid(s)? Much stronger.
Droids would be upgrades to Mech units right? Robotic versions of the large manned vehicles - Mechs (Pacific Rim battles were carried out by Mechs to draw a recent example). I wasn't sure why we removed the Mech Scout though I could see a point to a Droid Scout ALSO.
And all Recon generally can't attack so that's not unusual. We need some advancements to the motorcycle concept to carry the scout line through to bridge the gap to these larger and more advanced forms I think. Pre-Mech Scout should be a Hovercycle. Pre-Hovercycle should be a Bubble Bike (think Batman's solo ride in the 2nd movie) and something more modern for just before that stage and after the Motorcycle we have.
Faustmouse
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1)
a) You can fire pistoles etc even in space since the "gunpowder" contains basically all the needed oxigen so it is very near to the Carbon and Nitrogen to accelerate the explosion.
b) Why would there be an oxygen-less atmosphere? The current trend is that while forests etc become rarer the remaining plantlife is MUCH greener (about 20% compared to 1990) thus producing more oxigen. More CO2 means faster growing of plants because this is the limiting factor for them right now. Also, even if all plants would die there is still enough oxigen in the atmosphere to support all life for a few 1000 years.
c) Ballistic weapons would also be railguns right? Their main problem is energy support I think, resulting in a high weight, which wouldn't be a problem for heavy mechs.
d) Laser available even today can be so strong that they cut through several feet of stained steel in a second. Of course the armour of droids/mechs will be highly advanced, but lasers will so as well. And they are highly precise and (obviously) extremely fast weapons. So you can destroy the main procressor/energy supply/sensors etc of mechs very good with it.
2)Do we actually have a Paper-Scissor-Rock system in the PH-Medieval Era? If so, do we have it visualized or is it too complicated? This would be awesome for modern/post modern units as well!
3) Currently I think most scouring is done with drones/satellites. And I think in the future small insect drones or smart dust would be used rather than big fat scout mechs.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
1. Its just to early for that kind of weaponry. Its at Disaster Robots. This is before even Railguns. Basically this things should be possible to build today.
2. About Droids upgrading into mech, it just doesn't make sense from a functin point of view. You have the first Droid which is the Walker Droid, which upgrades into the Scout Droid and is used for exploration. While the Mechs are like the Heavy Armored Infantry. Then we have the "spider droids" which are more like siege weapons.
Spider Droids
Assault Droid, Siege Droid, Walker Artillery
Recon Droids
Walker Droid, Scout Droid
Mechs
Powered Exoskeleton Infantry, Power Armored Infantry, Anti-Personnel Mech, Walker Mech, Assault Mech
3. As for the recon group we have ...
Recon
Wander -> Scout -> Guide -> Explorer -> Adventurer -> Motorcycle -> Humveee -> ACV
Note that the ACV seems out of place and I really need to rework the late game wheeled vehicles.
Also we may want to link in the walker mech to the other recon units.
EDIT: Perhaps take off the Motorcycle to Humvee upgrade and just do a Motorcycle to Walker Droid upgrade. That way you could have Humveees and Motorcycles existing at the same time, like in real life.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Fair 'nuff but they're still extraordinarily weak in comparison to futuristic energy weapons.
I was considering extra-planetary expansion by the time Droids are introduced which apparently isn't what Hydro had in mind here so we've got a clash of vision which I suspected we may eventually reveal... to me, the futuristic units are a complete and hopeless mess which we'll be more ready to sort out later. But if y'all are trying to sort it out now... do what y'all want with the weapon settings. It doesn't mean much to me until I'm working the Equipment mod to that post modern extent. At which point I'll probably have about a hundred new units I'd like to see added anyhow.
I'm not sure... by Rail do we mean Ammunition Rails such as we use now in Machine Guns or do we mean Rail as in Railroad? HEAVY ballistic weapons (btw, a gun is a ballistic weapon) are probably still quite useful in later eras as the projectiles (or ballistics) are still quite heavy and capable of armor piercing.
You can have very powerful lasers today, yes. However, it will be a simple affair to deflect them. No laser will cut through a mirrored surface, for example. Thus, not incredibly useful against vehicles which may easily be equipped with such surface defenses.
I can go over how the Paper-Scissors-Rock system works in various systems for you later... it's been deeper considered recently in modern naval vessels as well. The post modern military units currently lack this kind of analysis but there are some elements forming there, provided we can come to agreements on what those are.
The benefit of larger Scout systems would still be to draw off attack and invite the aggressive enemy to compromise his position. I would think they'd make very good anti-personnel units without necessarily being 'attack' units. And they might make for good small transports for extracting captives and such.
Otherwise, historically, the role of 'scout' among the modern military pretty much was replaced by aviation at the onset of world war I, pretty much entirely replacing the need for Cavalry which was largely utilized for scouting up to that point. We have Recon units outside of Cavalry and by that time we're tending to think of them as trackers and guides for the larger forces and stealth operatives who go in with few numbers, are ready to get out of a fight at the drop of a hat, and return to report what they've been able to get their eyes on.
Well... hmm... we obviously have an entirely differing vision as to what a Droid is then but I was basing mine on the strength values Mechs and Droids had been assigned. As stated above, I personally think the futuristic unit selections are a complete mess that will take a very focused design effort to align. I'd not thought of Droids as being available until AFTER the transhuman era - part of the dominance of Robotics that emerges in the future. Robotic humanoid soldiers and such - much like what the Army is working on NOW would be very very VERY early versions. But this just perhaps points to a need to really define our unit naming terms very clearly. I've often thought that Droids (robots) and Mechs (human piloted) would be nearly the same in terms of strength but with some pros and cons between them that we could exploit to make them both more interesting.
I was actually saying I thought it would be the other way around, Mechs would upgrade into Droids of a similar type. However, this may not be the best way to go either... perhaps they should be running more concurrent with each other. The only real difference in terminology between the two indicates human piloted (mech)vs programmed AI (Droid).
This is exactly what I mean about the recon line, yes. Humvee and ACV should be a land troop transport and basic soldier line of wheeled units, not a scouting line at all. This leaves the gap between Motorcycle and Walker Droid (or Scout Mech...) that could use a few neat new units to fill the gap.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Scout Droid is at Disaster Robots (x95). This is After Planetary Exploration (x90) but before Asteroid Belt Probes (x96) and Lunar Colonization (x99). And LONG before Planetary Colonization (x118).
Meaning by the time this is created we have Rovers on Mars and/or the Moon, but no bases on the Moon or Mars yet. Basically where we are today.
I may need to just chnage its name to like Scout Robot or Scout Bot since I think the name "Droid" is making people think its more advanced than it is.
I am not sure, but I am trying to in my current planning.
Well we do have a Nanite Spy unit I could see the Scout Mech upgrading into that or some unit like it. Also we do have Drone Aircraft already in the game too.
Motorcycle (X70) -> ? (X?) -> Walker Droid (X91) -> Scout Droid (X95)
Note that Motorcycle is Mid Industrial, Walker Droid is Late Modern and Scout Droid is Early Transhuman.
Robotics tech (X82) sits roughly halfway between them. Perhaps we could have an early scouting robot to bridge the gap. Perhaps a "Rover" which could split off into space rovers.
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