Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I've only just got back. Breakfast first and coffee 
Improvement Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter 0100010
- Start date
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
OK, so after banging my head against the wall for 4 hours trying to figure out how I corrupted the gamefont file even while using the Font Editor, I finally got the thing cleaned up and got both the large and small versions done. There is a problem, however. I can't seem to get any icons after index# 204 to display (see preview #2). I don't think it's a problem with the gamefont file, I'm worried there is some upper limit in the engine when reading font indexes.
Anyway, I've attached the gamefont files and the spreadsheet that lists the new icon positions in the zip below. If you just drop them in the C2C\Assets\res\Fonts folder you'll get the cleaned up versions of the existing resources, but to see any new icons you'll have to edit the XML's, which I didn't include since:
1. I only changed a few on my on machine to test if it was working
2. The Mod authors should change their own XML's themselves in the SVN to ensure future updates don't get overwritten.
One easy change is to change all the 104 to 145 in the C2C\Assets\Modules\Resources\Culture\Culture_CIV4ArtDefines_Bonus.XML file, which will give the culture resources theicon.
I only moved a couple original icons around, for some reason "guinea pig" was pointing to slot #138 which had a picture of a rabbit (but not the rabbit that is already used) which wasn't referenced anywhere else, so I moved the extra rabbit icon to the end of the icon list and put the guinea pig icon there. I used guinea pig's old slot for mango (slot #135).
I am confused by your spreadsheet. Does column B contain the old index number or the new? Are you suggesting we get rid of a lot of our individual icons and use the atlas files instead?
The new kangaroo and bicycles are not very visible on a dark background.
I will add the font files in and will do the XML changes in the next release.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Added in the new but kept the gems at a lower probability since they have been found in jungle.
BtW did you not think of adding discoveries to Thatch Cutter and Peat Digger? The latter could find iron (bog iron was a good source of iron in the early iron age) and
fosiles (although more archaeological artifacts I suppose.)
You did not add the new Desert Camp etc to these workers. Did you intend to?
My goal was to keep spawning consistent to improvement types and bonusinfo terrain and feature validity. Sure gems can be found in jungles, but (while we are without the proposed Geo-realism stuff) there is nothing special about jungle over any other type of terrain for spawning gems. Gems and other mineral resources can spawn in all climates. My thinking was why make jungles more likely via jungle camp spawning than other locations? Mines can at least be placed at all latitudes and any terrain w/ hills or peaks.
I considered similar logic on thatch and peat cutter, at least in regard to latitude and (flora) bonus type validity consistency. Sword grass can show up anywhere except tundra, permafrost and ice. This means that any bonus spawn attached to it can show up in those locations, even if it doesn't make sense for the flora bonus. (A thatch cutter on grassland far in the north randomly spawning sugar normally restricted to much lower latitudes during map generation)
I suppose suppose the above need not matter for mineral resources as they don't or shouldn't) have latitude restrictions. This was one of the reason I also chose not to allow Wetlands Camp to be constructed on Peat Bogs. Peat Bogs can appear in the tundra and permafrost tiles, but the flora bonuses I wanted Wetlands Camps to spawn did not have those terrains as valid. I did not consider though for pat bogs. Iron (and maybe coal) would be fine.
I was not sure if that would have been considered stepping on someone else toes, since most of those appeared to be in user specific module sections. I only deleted the build references because you would get XML errors otherwise. Including the Desert and Wetlands Camp builds for them should be done. (Also you may consider including your Captive Force Build ___ improvement stuff I kept finding while doing searches.)
I did leave out all Fauna spawning on purpose, because it was never there in the first place, and we may want to consider alternate means for that such as the current migratory events.
I believe with these changes, all flora can now randomly spawn somewhere, as well as all mine and quarry type minerals This leaves just oil, natural gas, and geothermal energy without random spawning. Those latter ones only because I have not thought of the best way to handle them (methane ice and sea floor vents can spawn w/ the extraction facility, I guess this could do oil and gas too, but that only works for water tiles).
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Sounds fine. We may have to do quite a lot of changes once we get the Geo-realism stuff in. Especially if we can set up biome style for map region rather than the crude BtS latitude for resource placement and the fixed spawn locations for wild animals.
One thing I have been thinking about is the Ancient Temple improvement Search Ruins. Can we extend this functionality to the City Ruins? - dang they are an improvement not a feature. I want a small chance of finding stuff when workers remove it - oh well back to python.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
You could always have events that randomly spawn Oil etc. Or they could be spawning under mines.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
That is indeed the effect we get when we have reached the dll limit on resources.
After pulling the new version from the SVN and comparing, you did not set these gems at a lower priority. You did the exact opposite by making the iDiscoverRand values at only 1000 and 100. Those values are denominators. 1/100 and 1/1000 are much higher probability than 1/10000. (unless there is custom python or dll code in C2C that altered the default behavior of how iDiscoverRand works.)
See here
Column A is the bonus name, Column B is the new fontindex#, the rest of the columns can be ignored; they are just info I used to find the big resource icons since they are kind of scattered everywhere.
Is this limit something you guys would try to expand like you did for resources, or would you prefer to consolidate the small resource icons and stay under the limit? I could re-do the small resource icons to make a generic 'manufactured goods' icon, a generic 'processed foods' icon, a generic 'building materials' icon etc. Leaving the map resources alone (since they are the most likely to be traded and therefore should keep unique icons) there should be plenty of space. However, if the dll masters want to try upping the limit it would be nicer to have individual icons for each resource.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Ah so they are wrong
It shows clam and corn with the same number 11, I think whereas they are 11 and 12. This means that the numbers are one out. 
If necessary we will go back to the old for the release and add yours in after and work on the problem.
Ah so they are wrong
That tripped me up as well, the gamefontindex xmls start at 0 for the first icon, while Asaf's editor starts with 1, so to figure out the position of icons you have to subtract 1 for the first row, add 91 for the second, 183 for the third, and 275 for the fourth.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Don't worry it as my dyslexia playing up again.
Reposting the ideas and adding new ones:
Done:
Olive Gathering Camp, Olive Picking Camp, and Olive Orchard should be eliminated and replaced with the Orchard improvement line.
Jade should use a Quarry instead of a mine.
Guava should use Orchard improvements for access instead of plantation.
Potentially open up Quarry for building w/out requiring a bonus underneath on Rocky Terrain and Rock formation features. These could make it easier to allow Quarry based bonus spawn chances
Review all bonus spawn chances on various improvements, several of the ones on Jungle Camp are outdated and make little sense to me. (the mineral ones)
Other improvements similar to Jungle Camp might be consider to allow spawning chances of various flora resources that are impossible to get via random spawning.
Review the yield progression of all improvements and adjust for balance and consistency as needed.
Review the bonus spawning frequency from v34 testing feedback and adjust as needed.
Rubber and Resin might need some kind of separate improvement if there is a desire to preserve the underlying forests/jungle they spawn on without using an Orchard line. While Orchard keep forests and such, their tech yield bonus are split between food and commerce, while neither Rubber nor Resin are edible. Plantations almost entirely boost commerce via tech bonuses, though I could argue Rubber and Resin might better serve splitting production and commerce on its tech bonus yields. (Plantation boost Food w/ Artificial Evolution though, which I find odd.)
Desert Windmill (improvement) should be renamed to Modern Windmill and be an upgrade from the prior Windmill improvement. (use this switch to de-emphasize food and emphasize commerce/power/production)
Hydro Dam (improvement, new graphics/model required) should be an upgrade from the prior Watermill improvement. (use this switch to de-emphasize food and emphasize commerce/power/production)
Add support for an improvement tag, "bRequiresCoast"
Add support for a building tag support for requiring a specific improvement in the city vicinity to be built.
Building to improvement requirement changes:
Wind Farm should require Modern Windmill or Windtrap in the City Vicinity to be built.
Solar Power Plant(s) should require Solar Panels (improvement) in the City Vicinity to be built.
Hydro Plant should require Hydro Dam (improvement) in the City Vicinity to be built, and drop the river access requirement (the hydro dam improvement already requires a river)
Windmill (building) should require windmill (improvement) in the CV to be built.
Watermill (building) should require watermill (improvement) in the CV to be built.
OxenMill (building, and similar types) should require pasture (improvement) in the CV to be built.
Refocus the commerce line for the cottage chain. Enable the end goal (Towns) to support +1 free specialist via a building chain (Village hall- Town hall , etc) to require Town(s) in the CV to be built. (and gain +1 specialist per town in CV)
Reduce the amount of free specialist slots obtained from other building sources to make Towns more important.
Note when I refer to free specialists above I do meant free ones, not 'open slots'. Open slots are still needed as a place to put these specialists.
Convert Ancient Temple from a Resource to an Improvement. Give it an upgrade chain that allows "explore temple" later on. Alter some buildings to require these in the CV. Other possible similar types can be via the stonehenge and/or pyramids (plus Moai) graphics, even if similar in function. These cultural variation might require a "bRequiresRsource" improvement tag (regional culture, stone) to be built. This resource requirement is not a bMakesValid type but a "has access to" type of requirement.
Convert City Ruins from an improvement into a feature, whose placement is triggered by python during a city razing event.
Evaluate all improvements to decide which (if any) out to have an up front gold cost to build, like some routes require.
Controversial idea:
Eliminate auto-upgrading of improvements via turns worked in a city. Upgrade chains still "exist" in the sense that the newer versions should require the older versions underneath them to be built. This allows doping the upgrade to require workers to to the job (only if automated) and allow for the potential of an upfront gold coast, and/or access to resources to build them. (steel for modern windmills, cement for hydrodams, etc)
New Improvement:
A Proper canal (graphics required). Needs bRequiresCoast. bAllowsShipAccess.
An upgrade chain could restrict the combat class type of vessels that can use it.
Modify forts, allow it to act as city, but potentially have bAllowsShipAccess to false.
Done:
Jade should use a Quarry instead of a mine.
Guava should use Orchard improvements for access instead of plantation.
Potentially open up Quarry for building w/out requiring a bonus underneath on Rocky Terrain and Rock formation features. These could make it easier to allow Quarry based bonus spawn chances
Review all bonus spawn chances on various improvements, several of the ones on Jungle Camp are outdated and make little sense to me. (the mineral ones)
Other improvements similar to Jungle Camp might be consider to allow spawning chances of various flora resources that are impossible to get via random spawning.
Review the yield progression of all improvements and adjust for balance and consistency as needed.
Review the bonus spawning frequency from v34 testing feedback and adjust as needed.
Rubber and Resin might need some kind of separate improvement if there is a desire to preserve the underlying forests/jungle they spawn on without using an Orchard line. While Orchard keep forests and such, their tech yield bonus are split between food and commerce, while neither Rubber nor Resin are edible. Plantations almost entirely boost commerce via tech bonuses, though I could argue Rubber and Resin might better serve splitting production and commerce on its tech bonus yields. (Plantation boost Food w/ Artificial Evolution though, which I find odd.)
Desert Windmill (improvement) should be renamed to Modern Windmill and be an upgrade from the prior Windmill improvement. (use this switch to de-emphasize food and emphasize commerce/power/production)
Hydro Dam (improvement, new graphics/model required) should be an upgrade from the prior Watermill improvement. (use this switch to de-emphasize food and emphasize commerce/power/production)
Add support for an improvement tag, "bRequiresCoast"
Add support for a building tag support for requiring a specific improvement in the city vicinity to be built.
Building to improvement requirement changes:
Wind Farm should require Modern Windmill or Windtrap in the City Vicinity to be built.
Solar Power Plant(s) should require Solar Panels (improvement) in the City Vicinity to be built.
Hydro Plant should require Hydro Dam (improvement) in the City Vicinity to be built, and drop the river access requirement (the hydro dam improvement already requires a river)
Windmill (building) should require windmill (improvement) in the CV to be built.
Watermill (building) should require watermill (improvement) in the CV to be built.
OxenMill (building, and similar types) should require pasture (improvement) in the CV to be built.
Refocus the commerce line for the cottage chain. Enable the end goal (Towns) to support +1 free specialist via a building chain (Village hall- Town hall , etc) to require Town(s) in the CV to be built. (and gain +1 specialist per town in CV)
Reduce the amount of free specialist slots obtained from other building sources to make Towns more important.
Note when I refer to free specialists above I do meant free ones, not 'open slots'. Open slots are still needed as a place to put these specialists.
Convert Ancient Temple from a Resource to an Improvement. Give it an upgrade chain that allows "explore temple" later on. Alter some buildings to require these in the CV. Other possible similar types can be via the stonehenge and/or pyramids (plus Moai) graphics, even if similar in function. These cultural variation might require a "bRequiresRsource" improvement tag (regional culture, stone) to be built. This resource requirement is not a bMakesValid type but a "has access to" type of requirement.
Convert City Ruins from an improvement into a feature, whose placement is triggered by python during a city razing event.
Evaluate all improvements to decide which (if any) out to have an up front gold cost to build, like some routes require.
Controversial idea:
Eliminate auto-upgrading of improvements via turns worked in a city. Upgrade chains still "exist" in the sense that the newer versions should require the older versions underneath them to be built. This allows doping the upgrade to require workers to to the job (only if automated) and allow for the potential of an upfront gold coast, and/or access to resources to build them. (steel for modern windmills, cement for hydrodams, etc)
New Improvement:
A Proper canal (graphics required). Needs bRequiresCoast. bAllowsShipAccess.
An upgrade chain could restrict the combat class type of vessels that can use it.
Modify forts, allow it to act as city, but potentially have bAllowsShipAccess to false.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
One idea we have is that during the Nomadic phase you build stuff like temples and the like on the map. Historically it appears that such sites were buried when they went out of use. This would give players things to find and explore later in the game. They would have to be features since we can have many features on a plot and we would want the plot to be usable for other things until the rediscovery of the temple etc.
I agree his needs to be done for the same reasons as above.
Some things will still need the upgrade to work, planting new forest and beacons for example.
There has been a request for this as an option.
well, we have so many buildings and units now , a lot of thought and work went into them , now its time for us desk generals to battle a new problem
Logistics
as you may know real historic armies had to eat
and later needed spare parts and oil for tanks and planes.
to do this their commanders had 2 options
1.pillage and foraging , sustaining in short term and allowing quick movement without having to carry alot of food ,Ghengis Khan and Napoleon were big fans.
-implementation in game could be done , via Pillage button and Woodsman 3 /Fieldsman 3 promotions.
2.Suppply train via roads ,rivers and sea.Much later via airplane.
this form of logistics was prefered by more technological and rich empires , such as the Romans, the British and the USA.Allows for sustained field operations and even artillery.
-in game - could use the trade route network to check if the unit is linked or not.
Penalties for lack of logistical train could go from hp decrease per turn, gold cost increase ,desertion,mutiny,anarchy. (in Revolutions mod ,this would also cause the cities that built those units to go in revolt)
Logistics
as you may know real historic armies had to eat
and later needed spare parts and oil for tanks and planes.
to do this their commanders had 2 options
1.pillage and foraging , sustaining in short term and allowing quick movement without having to carry alot of food ,Ghengis Khan and Napoleon were big fans.
-implementation in game could be done , via Pillage button and Woodsman 3 /Fieldsman 3 promotions.
2.Suppply train via roads ,rivers and sea.Much later via airplane.
this form of logistics was prefered by more technological and rich empires , such as the Romans, the British and the USA.Allows for sustained field operations and even artillery.
-in game - could use the trade route network to check if the unit is linked or not.
Penalties for lack of logistical train could go from hp decrease per turn, gold cost increase ,desertion,mutiny,anarchy. (in Revolutions mod ,this would also cause the cities that built those units to go in revolt)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I did add a tag specifically for use for a canal that includes a bundle package of bRequiresCoast and bAllowsShipAccess. We just need someone to make the actual improvement with artwork included. The AI will be motivated to build it primarily if it will link two waterways that have a one tile split OR if it will link a fort or city on one side of a two tile strip between waterways and the other side.
The tag is bCanMoveSeaUnits and I'm sure looking forward to seeing it in the game. Looks like you have the motivation to apply it for us
I have some projects planned that should address these issues with some new and interesting optional processes.
Sparth
C2C Team Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,314
Attachments
Awesome Sparth!
If possible thugh try to move the floodgate area of the dss to the right a bit to lineup with the river more, however that might just make it unaligned against variations in other river images. Plus maybe some minor falling water appearance (in the texture, not asking for an animation)
While your at it, the Wetlands Camp and Desert camp needs some reskins, and new button graphics.
If possible thugh try to move the floodgate area of the dss to the right a bit to lineup with the river more, however that might just make it unaligned against variations in other river images. Plus maybe some minor falling water appearance (in the texture, not asking for an animation)
While your at it, the Wetlands Camp and Desert camp needs some reskins, and new button graphics.
Similar threads
