Building a town on ressource

Hi all,

I have a question for the spot used to build a town. I noticed that when I build a town on a luxury resource, I immediately get the corresponding happiness bonus. So is it a good idea to build town or resource (either lux or other), or not?

Christophe

yogaman said:

Hi all,

I have a question for the spot used to build a town. I noticed that when I build a town on a luxury resource, I immediately get the corresponding happiness bonus. So is it a good idea to build town or resource (either lux or other), or not?

Christophe

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Wrong Forum.. what you are talking about is in Civ 5

in Civ BE the resource is totally removed

If you dont need the extra production that a resource tile provides it makes sense to settle on a lux or strat resource. Bonus resources otoh not a good reason to settle on them

I'm not sure why this is, but gems seem to provide the highest bonuses for settling on top of them. Gem/hill/river is the best spot to land a city on...and yes, if you can put your city directly on the resource (taking into consideration other terrain benefits like hills and rivers) then do so. You still get the luxury bonus - as for the tile improvement bonus, I think you're only losing one gold (unless it's gems, oddly enough) That one gold is a base gold that isn't getting modified by the market improvement, so I suppose it's not optimal, but it's a trade-off. Sometimes the early happiness is what you need to keep pace with growth.

If you expand your cities rapidly and you don't have enough worker to improve tiles fast enough then it would make sense to do it to make sure happiness isn't a problem. It doesn't happen to me often though, most of the time I would get around 4 cities max before the AI steal all the good location, so I rather improve the tile.

Settling on marble/gold/germ/silver/copper is good you get instant production/gold boost and bonus

TheologiaCrucis said:

I'm not sure why this is, but gems seem to provide the highest bonuses for settling on top of them.

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Gems add 2 to an unimproved tile. It's 1 more than silver and gold because gems cannot be improved by mint. And if gems are on a hill tile, you get +1. Et voila, the best tile ever.

Generally, there are 3 types of resources: bonus, luxury and strategic. You'll lose bonus resources (except stone) if you settle your city on top of them. Luxury and strategic resources remain intact so it's not a last resort option to settle their tiles.

It's generally advisable to build on top of resources that provide for poor tile yield, like furs or ivory. Incense, wine, spices etc. also can fall under this category. As long as you would be unlikely to work the resource tile, it's better to settle on a resource because it will give you a small gold bonus. The perfect example of that is an incense source in a desert tile. You of course need to take into account such things like fertilizer in later game or goddess of the hunt.

Plots with strategic resources are usually better left outside a city to be worked by citizens later. They simply provide good yields that are also further improvable by various things. The best thing to do with them is to plant a great person on top of them. Great people's improvements connect strategic resources and add sizable bonuses to plt yield.

Makavcio said:

You'll lose bonus resources (except stone) if you settle your city on top of them.

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Can you explain this a bit more? I am pretty sure that if you settle on sheep/cow you can still build a stable even if there is no other sheep/cow/horses within 3 hexes. Settling on stone lets you build stoneworks. I am pretty sure that settling on deer/wheat/banana yields the one extra food from granary. Or am I mistaken? Are there bonus resources that are completely wasted when you settle on them? Does settling on a lone cow lets the city build a stable, but then the stable does nothing?

I concur that one looses the opportunity to improve the tile, and that it is better not to settle on resources (bonus or strategic). The math is straightforward:
city + improved resource > city-on-resource + farm

Luxury and strategic resources remain intact so it's not a last resort option to settle their tiles.

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I disagree with your characterization of settling on luxes as a last resort option. It can be an good choice even for luxes on workable tiles because you get the happiness from the lux immediately. I like your explanation about how settling on desert or hill luxes is often an optimal no-compromise choice.

The best thing to do with [strategic resources] to plant a great person on top of them. Great people's improvements connect strategic resources and add sizable bonuses to plt yield.

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That is a popular choice, but I would argue that it is not the “best thing” for the majority of maps. The math is straightforward:
GP-on-grassland + improved strategic > GP-on-strategic + farm
But it is not really unusual run out of grassland for planting GP, or maybe it is early and your city is small so you can't really afford to work both a GP plot and a farm.

Makavcio said:

Gems add 2 to an unimproved tile. It's 1 more than silver and gold because gems cannot be improved by mint. And if gems are on a hill tile, you get +1. Et voila, the best tile ever.

Generally, there are 3 types of resources: bonus, luxury and strategic. You'll lose bonus resources (except stone) if you settle your city on top of them. Luxury and strategic resources remain intact so it's not a last resort option to settle their tiles.

It's generally advisable to build on top of resources that provide for poor tile yield, like furs or ivory. Incense, wine, spices etc. also can fall under this category. As long as you would be unlikely to work the resource tile, it's better to settle on a resource because it will give you a small gold bonus. The perfect example of that is an incense source in a desert tile. You of course need to take into account such things like fertilizer in later game or goddess of the hunt.

Plots with strategic resources are usually better left outside a city to be worked by citizens later. They simply provide good yields that are also further improvable by various things. The best thing to do with them is to plant a great person on top of them. Great people's improvements connect strategic resources and add sizable bonuses to plt yield.

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From a real life standpoint, I can understand the logic of something like a manufactury or a customs house connecting strategic resources, but why do places like holy sites and citadels connect strategic resources? I guess its just one those things that mostly a suspension of disbelief for gameplay purposes?

Since many strategics are not visible on the map until later in the game, it would be quite frustrating to have to scrap a GP tile improvement to connect, e.g., coal, aluminum or uranium. Hence, the design decision that GP tile improvements will connect strategic resources when they become visible/workable.

Since luxuries are visible from turn 0, there is no gameplay need for GP tile improvements to connect luxuries, so they do not.

Trackmaster said:

Why do places like holy sites and citadels connect strategic resources?

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Browd gave you the gameplay explanation, but it works for me okay real-life-wise (at least as well as Custom House). I imagine a holy site where the worshipers pay special reverent attention to the “miraculous” powers of the terrain, and citadels represent complex fully staffed facilities. (My rationalization could encompass luxes too, but I am okay that the game mechanics work as they do.)

Browd said:

Hence, the design decision that GP tile improvements will connect strategic resources when they become visible/workable.

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Any speculation as to the design decision that allows for GP tile improvements to connect strategic resources when they are already visible/workable? (I think it’s that GP providing strategics conditionally would have been more work to code.)

I suspect you are right, particularly since it is quite possible that every strategic may be hidden when you plant, e.g., Babylon's initial academy -- e.g., no Animal Husbandry (horses) or Bronze Working (iron).

Maybe the real life explanation could be that a hex takes up something like 50 square miles, and holy site or Academy only takes up a few acres. So they can still have people working the mines outside of the holy sites and Academies. It wouldn't explain the lost production, or why they can't be done for luxuries.

Real-life rationalizations for some game mechanics frequently strains credibility. I think I would put this in that broad category, but it's not something that broken my sense of immersion. OTOH trackmaster makes a fair observation, and it is something that is quirky enough that it had occurred to me, and I had already formulated an explanation for myself.