Shift-Click-End of Turn Moves

I would like to add if we played turnbased as in single player this move would be fine.....but we play in real time and this move falls outside of that boundary.

Maybe the developers didnt think about this point???
 
Sometimes, you can use Shift click move of your opponent to your advantage. Blocking him with Zone of control in the last second of the turn. placing units in rough field where he planned to go with shift...
 
KiffeLesBiffles said:
Sometimes, you can use Shift click move of your opponent to your advantage. Blocking him with Zone of control in the last second of the turn. placing units in rough field where he planned to go with shift...
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I see your point.. When planning a war you plan your soldiers like moving in chess(when not using shift)..and then start planning shift attacks moves OMG...that will be crazy having a war if you ask me..and very boring..and if you ganna use shiftcounter then we have all players wait for turn timer to end to shiftcounter(because if shift attacker sees your shiftcounter).. But zone control is an important part of game but we dont need shift moves to have zone controll..And get the spirit of game clean of shift..

Its so many ways you can use shift move for advanteg that its sick..looosing a war and you need to retreat:shift retreat.shift attack.shift etc

The shift move will destroy the game and make it unbalanced like we have exp in NQ when (top players in league starting using it). Many at NQ and when we started NQ i remember this shift move ass being something ungentelmann to do(and remember plenty league players having this gentelmann attitude)... What happend suddently its ganna be used again? I really hope all civ players will think about this moves and maybe tell of exp and try out new things with it... But for myself iam not using that move, idont see how its ganna be balanced..
 
donhenriko said:
OK boys and girls.

12) Whether to ALLOW double moves with SHIFT must be AGREED by a VOTE before each game.

This is the new NQ rule.

Hopefully this way we can please all the different NQ players; experts and beginners alike :)

That being said, I despise the end of turn double move with shift. I would vote against it 100 % of the times.

GG all :)

P.S. It would be very nice if the most active NQ players here on CFC would help spread the word :)
Click to expand...

Amen :bowdown:
 
Yeah, I'm against shift moves. I coudln't hold Kat's city for him because of it :p
 
A lot of good points here:) Reading through the posts I notice most are against the shift-click move being used for war?

In my opinion it's the more experienced players that can use this move effectively. These players already have an advantage due to there amount of playtime and awareness of the game. I'm worried new players to civ may be discouraged from mp if this move becomes well-used.

So my question is if I can't figure out how to use this move properly with 1000 hours or so of steam play how can we possibly expect new players to comprehend it? As a new player there is already so much to understand in order to compete with top players.

That being said I would always vote NO for the use of this move!

I hope firaxis reads this thread and maybe considers removing this option.

Furthermore does it make sense to form a petition to present to firaxis?

As always game is about having fun and growing our community:)
 
I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, yes, movement to which you have no realistic opportunity to react involves a degree of unfairness.

On the other, I think that the defender has such a ridiculous inherent advantage that you almost need something like shift-clicking or double moving to counteract it -- fortification bonuses really need significant nerfing, as +50% is insane.

My other reason for tending to be on the side of using it is it cuts down somewhat on everyone waiting for the turn timer to run down to ~10sec before click spamming troops all over the place. That can get very tedious in later eras as the timer increases in length.

All in all, I'm not really sure what the developer's intent was in providing this functionality. It serves no purpose at all in single-player, as there's no advantage in mass-moving a bunch of your units at the end of the turn there. Moving them one by one at any time during the turn would have the same effect. That means its only possible application is in multi, so barring gentlemen's agreements I would tend to be on the side of "if it's there, use it."
 
Luckystrike77 said:
The biggest problem here is not the surprise, that a player should be prepared for. The problem is how an artillery based defensive position is stripped of every possibility to bombard the first turn of attack. I will say this is an exploit indeed, reducing the use of artillery alot in defence.
Click to expand...

This is an important point. I'm not saying my defensive position at Orleans in the game recorded by Tab (last on his sig, I think) was great, but it illustrates the advantage using shift-click gave his units in invading my heavy artillery defended position. They essentially got a free turn to move into my artillery's range without my having a chance to bombard them and soften them up. Tab's attack would have been successful anyway (superior units also backed up by artillery), but with this jumpstart, it was like a knife through butter.

I think it's bad enough double moves are always a possibility in league games...this takes that to a whole new level. I would also always vote against it.

Having said all that, and without our game having reached combat stages yet, I'm quite enjoying the GMR hotseat, turn-based option.
 
Silverfuturist said:
All in all, I'm not really sure what the developer's intent was in providing this functionality. It serves no purpose at all in single-player...
Click to expand...

They already had to code scripting for multi-turn moves, I'd guess they just decided to attach a button to something they had to code anyway (for example, if you move a worker to a different town, it will take several turns to move it. Rather than giving the worker a command every turn, it's easier to give it a command to "move there over the next 4 turns". Since they had to code functionality for that anyway, it probably takes like 1 line of code to attach the shift button to that function.)
 
Here's a thought: if you are going to ban something, ban double moves. If someone double moves a single unit, it's close to impossible to tell whether they used shift to do it or not. But the double move itself can't go undetected. If someone moves at the end of turn, and moves the same unit beginning of turn before you have time to react, that's a double move. Simple, no confusion.
 
Adreno said:
Here's a thought: if you are going to ban something, ban double moves. If someone double moves a single unit, it's close to impossible to tell whether they used shift to do it or not. But the double move itself can't go undetected. If someone moves at the end of turn, and moves the same unit beginning of turn before you have time to react, that's a double move. Simple, no confusion.
Click to expand...

Problem is not double move really its moving a bunch of units all at once to get the upper-hand on position. when new turn commences you can only move your units as fast as the other guy but its the positioning the queued moves gave you. I mean without using shift move you can essentially have a double move if you move your unit near the end of turn and then again at the begging of next.(but only works for maybe 1 unit depending on how fast you move and what your opponents first move is)

Still i think shift-clicking multiple units in warfare is like letting the ai play for you im strongly against it !!!!
 
NQ_carls13 said:
Still i think shift-clicking multiple units in warfare is like letting the ai play for you im strongly against it !!!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the implication that it's letting the AI play for you. I can certainly understand why people dislike it, but making that sort of claim is just sensationalist and downright false. You still determine where the units go, so it's no more "letting the AI play for you" than setting up a build queue in a city or shift-clicking techs to set up a research queue.

It definitely gives a more tangible advantage than either of those, but it's still not the AI doing the fighting for you, which is what your wording implies.

Edited for stupid spelling error.
 
Yes yalish I'm sorry my wording was misleading and I see your point.
My meaning is the ai stores those moves for you and you can pre-plan without the stress of being under siege. So therefore make smarter decisions than you would if your opponent is attacking you at the same time. Also the more the ai has to do at end turn cs, barbs, queued moves the longer sync between turns seems to be.(opinion)
 
N0QUITTERSULTAN said:
We at NQ have started educating people about SHIFT MOVE..so this rule is kinda new..We at NQ will be teaching it to many members as we can and then the rule will maybe change..I hope the league community will also bring some discussions about this move.

My exp is: i known of the move a long time now,and i never use it. I think it s kinda unfair to use .. But if everybody knows of it will se how it would be..

So my quisteion is do all leaguers use it? Do you guys to ganna educate people about it??

CAUNCK?
Click to expand...

I have not received any complaints about this at all really. I do understand the pro and cons, but IMHO is is no different really that Cntl A was in Civ4.

It can be debated if it is in the "spirit of the game" but clearly the designers did put this ability in the UI and therefore it's not a bug or exploit.

I do not intend to make any rules on this within CivPlayers, I will leave it too the game hosts to make any special rules about this if they want too. I will start a discussion thread on the subject if nothing else but to educate players.

I do really feel that we need a 8 sec unit timer like in Civ4, but since Firaxis has not yet coded that, making an artificial rule dictating this would be nearly impossible to enforce.

CS
 
I think I would be fine with shift-clicking to place units. Where I have issues with it is when it's used to attack units/cities. That's where it truly becomes a case of not being able to react -- you shift-attack a city from a fortified position, get it almost dead during the turn changeover and then immediately take it and/or retreat your wounded troops the next turn without your opponent being able to meaningfully retaliate.

So I think positioning-wise it's fine. For actually attacking units/cities I'm definitely opposed.

Edited to add that I agree with CS and the multitude of other people that have brought it up before: bring back the 8sec timer from Civ IV! It would fix so many issues with double moves and, by extension, shift-clicking.
 
CanuckSoldier said:
I have not received any complaints about this at all really. I do understand the pro and cons, but IMHO is is no different really that Cntl A was in Civ4.

It can be debated if it is in the "spirit of the game" but clearly the designers did put this ability in the UI and therefore it's not a bug or exploit.

I do not intend to make any rules on this within CivPlayers, I will leave it too the game hosts to make any special rules about this if they want too. I will start a discussion thread on the subject if nothing else but to educate players.

I do really feel that we need a 8 sec unit timer like in Civ4, but since Firaxis has not yet coded that, making an artificial rule dictating this would be nearly impossible to enforce.

CS
Click to expand...

What was the effect of the 8 Sec Timer in Civ 4. Been so long that I want to make sure I understand the effects.

Thanks....
 
Harry Seldon said:
What was the effect of the 8 Sec Timer in Civ 4. Been so long that I want to make sure I understand the effects.

Thanks....
Click to expand...

It was a mechanic that if you moved a unit in the last 8 sec of the turn, you could not move that unit for the first 8 sec of the next turn, therefore preventing double moves.

CS
 
CanuckSoldier said:
It was a mechanic that if you moved a unit in the last 8 sec of the turn, you could not move that unit for the first 8 sec of the next turn, therefore preventing double moves.

CS
Click to expand...

Not exactly. For example, if you move a unit at exactly 8 sec. before end of turn you can move immediately after the turn. If you move at 2 sec from end of turn you can move again 6 sec after end of turn.
 
I think we are recalling the system at difference patch levels, but you get the idea.

CS
 
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