Civ UAs/units that you don't like?

Question

King
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
950
As title?

Mine :

America : I almost never buy tiles and i dont see how this is useful unless you are going liberty and trying to get AIs to DOW you for buying tiles near them...no early game units/buildings also hurt in the critical part of the game

Assyria : You want to be in the tech lead, not behind it...and the UA only works by incurring tons of warmonger hate. +10 xp fro a library is ok i guess, but its not enough to bump you to the next experience level.

Austria : I rarely want to puppet/annex a CS vs giving them 1k gold and enjoying the unique bonuses. CS placement is also often not that good. I dont see the point of +25% GP gain from the coffee house, wouldnt you normally have your GPs spawning in your capital where all your bonuses are concentrated anyway?

Bablyon : Archer bonus strength doesnt stay with upgrades and walls only work if your cities get attacked.

Brazil : Not impressed by tourism bonus, would have preferred a culture bonus instead.

Byzantium : Bonus vs naval ships is rather useless given that the AI shys away from naval forces (aside from keeping outdated tiremes around for some reason)

Carthage : Free harbour isnt very impressive, most of your trade will be going from your capital anyway, so you only really need one harbour (till you research seaports). And ive never had a game where i really needed to cross mountains...

China : +2 gold from paper makers is a drop in the bucket compared to the much more useful +2 happiness other unique buildings get.

Denmark : Viking fury isnt very useful unless you on a water map, same goes for vikings and norwegain ski infantry is too terrain dependant (you dont even want to have cities in tundra/snow if you can avoid it)

Egypt : War chariot is too terrain dependant, and not needing horses is hardly a big deal.

France : Double the theming bonus only kicks in much later in the end game, requires you to win wonder races and isnt a big bonus in the first place (like 2 or 3? And you need to wait for the AI to swap the correct ones with you, which is hard as you cant request specific eras/etc). The pre-BNW culture bonus was much more useful IMHO. Chataeus are also too location dependant.

Germany : Having barbarian units join you isnt that useful when an archer or two is enough to handle everything except raging barbarians. Also if you have raging barbarians on, you would be better off keeping an encampment alive to farm honor, rather than destroying it.

Greece : I dont find influence degradation a problem at all? Especially if you are in the lead, you automatically get tons of influence for being top cultural, faith, etc gains.

Indonesia : So from what i can tell you get two copies of a unique resource per new continent city you found. I found this pretty hard to get as by the time you research astronomy, the other continent is fully settled as ti is...unless you play on an island map. On continent plus, i found myself forced to settle island cities in very poor locations (mostly water tiles, no production) to get the bonus. Kris swordsman bonus seems random and im not sure what it does...i got "evil spirits" but could not see the bonus in the pre-battle popup. Im not sure if the promotion stays when you upgrade the unit either.

Korea : I dont see why you would use turtle ships when frigates are superior, also turtle ships instead of caravels means you cant use caravels to explore and become the first world congress host.

Mongolia : CS are easy enough to attack as it is, this ability just seems pointless.

Morroco : I find that its often far more profitable to have multiple trade routes to one large civ than multiple smaller ones...and the bonus is so minor that it doesnt help, especially in later games. Also the kasbah is pretty lackluster as it doesnt scale with techs that improve yields.

Persia : You cant really control when golden ages happen, so the military bonus during golden ages can get wasted. If you could save golden ages though, this becomes top tier.

Polynesia : Maoi is probably the worst improvement in the game.

Rome : Unit bonus strength doesnt stay with upgrades and the +25% production bonus is pretty pitiful (especially with puppets) in practice. Now if it was a production bonus in the capital...

Russia : +1 production for strategic resources isnt much considering how rare they tend to be. Double quantity isnt useful at all until you get to coal and later, its quite common to end up with way more iron/horse than you can possibly use. Krepost doesnt seem to do much either.

Songhai : Amphibious/War canoe are not very impressive unless you are on a water map, a better bonus would have been no extra movement cost for crossing rivers...

Spain : Im not even sure if they have a start bias for natural wonders, but given that theres only a max of 4 wonders on a standard map with 8 players, your chances of getting the 500 gold is very low. Conquistadors also come way too late in the game, by the time you get it, the other continent would be fully settled anyway...

Sweden : 90 influence is frankly not much, and influence ceases to be an issue later in the game. +10% to GP generation is also pretty low. Hakkapelittas are a melee combat unit that stacks with great generals, but Sweden has no bonus to GG generation to make full use of it and having a GG stacked in the same tile on the front line just screams "kill me!". To top it off, +15% bonus from having a GG stacked is not even very high.

Celts : Unimproved forest, lame. Pictish warrior is also pretty weak in my experience, especially after swordsmen come out.

Iroquious : Weaker jaguar warrior (if you upgrade jaguars to swordsmen, they are far better) and the longhouse is actually weaker than a normal workshop for some reason...

Maya : Atlatist gets obsolete too quickly.

Netherlands : Much weaker version of the Arabia UA and a unique improvement that only works in one of the worst terrain types in the game (marsh) and is only equal to a farm + bonus yield from tech (taking into account the marsh food penalty). Sea beggars are not impressive considering that naval engangemetns (and coastal attacks) are decided by mass frigates rather than suciding melee ships into coastal cities.

Ottomans : Oh look you just captured some outdated tiremes, really useful there. Or you could just mass frigates like usual.
 
like, for example, you say you don't like the Brazil tourism bonus. WAT? Seriously? That's one of the best UA's in the game :crazyeye:
 
like, for example, you say you don't like the Brazil tourism bonus. WAT? Seriously? That's one of the best UA's in the game :crazyeye:

The tourism boost does nothing until you can get stuff like hotels to boost your tourism output and by that point getting enough tourism to win isnt an issue...
 
Spain have a phenomanl UA. Get 500 from discovering the wonder, buy your settler and settle on that wonder which will double it's yield and if it's a faith wonder, you'll get one with nature and you dominate faith for the rest of the game.
 
Spain have a phenomanl UA. Get 500 from discovering the wonder, buy your settler and settle on that wonder which will double it's yield and if it's a faith wonder, you'll get one with nature and you dominate faith for the rest of the game.

Assuming that you can get to the natural wonder first and found a city near it. On default settings, a standard map only has 4 natural wonders for 8 players.
 
I'm pretty sure there are more than 4 NW on a standard map, about 6 I guess
 
I am going to go through your post and explain to you how some of your points are wrong/you are using the bonus wrong. Some of your points are valid, so i remove dthose from my post.

Assyria : You want to be in the tech lead, not behind it...and the UA only works by incurring tons of warmonger hate.

On high levels, you will be behind until renaissance. Why dont you get 3 siege towers and composite bowmen and take a city or two. Unless you take a capital, or declare war more then once, your warmonger will fade in 20 turns max.

Austria : I rarely want to puppet/annex a CS vs giving them 1k gold and enjoying the unique bonuses. CS placement is also often not that good. I dont see the point of +25% GP gain from the coffee house, wouldnt you normally have your GPs spawning in your capital where all your bonuses are concentrated anyway?

Yes, I rarely use Diplomatic Marriage. Not to say it isnt useful, just that its rare. Coffee Houses are amazing. Having GP come out of your capital only isnt true. I often build stuff like Artists guild in my second city, and work science slots in other cities too. This gets you more GP overall, in all cities.

Bablyon : Archer bonus strength doesnt stay with upgrades and walls only work if your cities get attacked.

Bowmen are brutal. They are basically like super early composite bowmen, which allows quick barbarian hunting, and possibly knocking down opponents early, before they get setup. If you get attacked, walls of babylon can save you.

Brazil : Not impressed by tourism bonus, would have preferred a culture bonus instead.

erm... Tourism bonus is amazing for cultural victories. one golden age in the late game can get 1000 tourism, and that can speed up your victory exponetially. Not to mention more GWAM will get you more culture.

Byzantium : Bonus vs naval ships is rather useless given that the AI shys away from naval forces (aside from keeping outdated tiremes around for some reason)

Byzantium does not get a bonus vs naval ships. This point is invalid.

Carthage : Free harbour isnt very impressive, most of your trade will be going from your capital anyway, so you only really need one harbour (till you research seaports).

Harbour= no, not all your trade comes from your capital. usually, i get trade routes from almost all my coastal cities. Carthage might not be able to reach that gold mine of a route, but maybe Utique can. Also, you can get free connections without building roads.

China : +2 gold from paper makers is a drop in the bucket compared to the much more useful +2 happiness other unique buildings get.

+2 happiness from buildings is much, much later. +2 gold early is great, actually its +3 gold, because it dosent cost maintenance, but library does. its much more significant than you think.

Denmark : Viking fury isnt very useful unless you on a water map, same goes for vikings and norwegain ski infantry is too terrain dependant (you dont even want to have cities in tundra/snow if you can avoid it)

NSI have hill bonuses.

Egypt : War chariot is too terrain dependant, and not needing horses is hardly a big deal.

No horse needed is good. No limit on them. this means you can rush someone with them. also war chariots are not affected by terrain like regular chariot archers, they act like regular units, with +3 movement.

Germany : Having barbarian units join you isnt that useful when an archer or two is enough to handle everything except raging barbarians. Also if you have raging barbarians on, you would be better off keeping an encampment alive to farm honor, rather than destroying it.

Why would you not want more units? Maybe you clear a camp with your warrior and you get a free archer. Yay, i dont have to build/buy one. Your spearman clears a camp, and duplicates himself. Why wouldnt you want that?

Greece : I dont find influence degradation a problem at all? Especially if you are in the lead, you automatically get tons of influence for being top cultural, faith, etc gains.

Indonesia : So from what i can tell you get two copies of a unique resource per new continent city you found. I found this pretty hard to get as by the time you research astronomy, the other continent is fully settled as ti is...unless you play on an island map. On continent plus, i found myself forced to settle island cities in very poor locations (mostly water tiles, no production) to get the bonus. Kris swordsman bonus seems random and im not sure what it does...i got "evil spirits" but could not see the bonus in the pre-battle popup. Im not sure if the promotion stays when you upgrade the unit either.

Kris Swordsman can get good/bad promotions. It can get Blitz, which is awesome, but can also get Enemy blade, which makes it take attrotion in enemy territory. UA is map dependent, but isnt everything dependent on something?

Korea : I dont see why you would use turtle ships when frigates are superior, also turtle ships instead of caravels means you cant use caravels to explore and become the first world congress host.

The weakness is they cant get WC host, but who cares? you wont get that anyways on high diffs. They have freaking 40 strength! Get a fleet of them, and maybe 1-2 galleasses, and sail them to a nearby coastal city. Bash some Turtle Ships against it. 2 turns later, city! No iron required. No navigation required. Cheaper to build. Get the point?

Mongolia : CS are easy enough to attack as it is, this ability just seems pointless.

Its weak to balance out Keshiks.


Persia : You cant really control when golden ages happen, so the military bonus during golden ages can get wasted. If you could save golden ages though, this becomes top tier.

You can time your attacks with Golden Ages. you can rig your happiness to be golden age at the perfect time. its easier to do this, because persias golden ages are 15 turns, instead of 10.

Rome : Unit bonus strength doesnt stay with upgrades and the +25% production bonus is pretty pitiful (especially with puppets) in practice. Now if it was a production bonus in the capital...

Your capital is likely to build any building first. So when your second city has 4 production, you get 1 extra production. Not great. But when your second city has 40 production, you get 10 extra production. So, when you get late game and you have cities at 100 productin, you get 25 hammers. Thats great, isnt it?

Russia : +1 production for strategic resources isnt much considering how rare they tend to be. Double quantity isnt useful at all until you get to coal and later, its quite common to end up with way more iron/horse than you can possibly use.

+1 production on horses/iron. these resources are not rare at all, look at the map. Sometimes, you can get up to 4 in a city. Its small, but early 1 hammer is big. Once you get that early headstart, it snowballs.

Spain : Im not even sure if they have a start bias for natural wonders, but given that theres only a max of 4 wonders on a standard map with 8 players, your chances of getting the 500 gold is very low.

They dont. But since the AI is so dumb with exploring, its usually a 60% chance really. also, NW spawn on average 6 times on standard maps, 7 on large and 8 on huge.

Celts : Unimproved forest, lame. Pictish warrior is also pretty weak in my experience, especially after swordsmen come out.

Funny. Celts have forest bias. Will you have a worker on turn 10? No, so 1 faith per turn starting at turn 0 will almost always get you first pantheon (unless someone finds 2 religion CS). And first pantheon usually leads to first religion. Pictish warriors are good and clearing out encampments, they have 25% combat boost outside territory, which means 25% better against camps. Also, they get faith, which means faster religion.

Maya : Atlatist gets obsolete too quickly.

So do archers. Atlatlist stays longer then archers. So, they are obsolete slower then archers.

Netherlands : Much weaker version of the Arabia UA and a unique improvement that only works in one of the worst terrain types in the game (marsh) and is only equal to a farm + bonus yield from tech (taking into account the marsh food penalty). Sea beggars are not impressive considering that naval engangemetns (and coastal attacks) are decided by mass frigates rather than suciding melee ships into coastal cities.

Sea Beggar plus armory- Blitz ships with 45% bonus against cities. And supply. Which means they can heal on the go, and ram into cities. Polders give +4 food, +1 hammer, +1 gold after Economics. Tell me a Farm that does that, farms gives +4 food, or +3 food, +1 hammer. Marsh on its own is 1 food, not -1 food. Arabia's UA is not remotely close to the Netherlands UA. Arabia is more oil, and religious caravans. Netherlands is less happiness loss from trading resources.

Ottomans : Oh look you just captured some outdated tiremes, really useful there. Or you could just mass frigates like usual.

Ok, so you have a destroyer capturing Battleships. Tell me the differnece of a Trireme and a Battleship.

I dont mind bonuses that do nothing, I only dont like bonuses that make the unit worse. Which meanse th only thing I dont like are Longhouses and bad luck Kris Swordmen.
 
I'll confine my dislikes to UUs to those that are in some way worse than the standard unit, so the only one I dislike is Turtleship.
There's no UB worse than the base building, so there's nothing there I dislike.
As to UI, they don't replace any improvements so you simply don't build them on tiles where another improvement would benefit it more.

And you can ignore your UA entirely if you like as well, even Mongolia's in which its a bad idea to actually use for diplomatic reasons.
 
Even playing on legendary start its rare for me to have 4 extra strategic resources with a city...its actually much easier to get 4+ of the same luxury resource.

Also its 4 natural wonders on standard : <Type>WORLDSIZE_STANDARD</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_WORLD_STANDARD</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_WORLD_STANDARD_HELP</Help>
<DefaultPlayers>8</DefaultPlayers>
<DefaultMinorCivs>16</DefaultMinorCivs>
<GridWidth>80</GridWidth>
<GridHeight>52</GridHeight>
<MaxActiveReligions>5</MaxActiveReligions>
<FogTilesPerBarbarianCamp>27</FogTilesPerBarbarianCamp>
<NumNaturalWonders>4</NumNaturalWonders>

So from what im seeing some of the civs really only shine when playing against cheating opponents?
 
joncnunn, explain to me how the Longhouse is better than the Workshop, as you say no UB is worse than original? Also, I have to disagree on Turtle Ship. They have like 40 strength, compared to the mid twenties of basically every other unit in the era.

Question, I play on standard regularly, and have usually found 3, and then after satellites, it reveals 2-3 more. Unless GBR counts as 1, i dont get it.
 
joncnunn, explain to me how the Longhouse is better than the Workshop, as you say no UB is worse than original? Also, I have to disagree on Turtle Ship. They have like 40 strength, compared to the mid twenties of basically every other unit in the era.

Question, I play on standard regularly, and have usually found 3, and then after satellites, it reveals 2-3 more. Unless GBR counts as 1, i dont get it.

The Longhouse is a worser workshop. Imo, losing the percentage bonus and instead getting 1 extra production for those tiles? Meh... I think it is rare that the production that the Longhouse would give would equal out to the percentage of that of the Workshop. Unless of course, you are working a lot of these tiles, but you'll be lacking the food.
 
With respect to the OP, I'm wondering if maybe the problem is depth of play. With, say, Brazil, you really have to change your play style to get the most out of the UA. I used to think that there was babs, poland, and then a bunch of crappy civs. Then I figured out that I needed to play a few times with each guy to really get a feel for synergies with policies, etc. Maybe OP just needs to pick a couple of the more interesting ones and learn how their UA powers them.

Btw, I used to hate Venice for the above reasons. I just needed to play them more than once to get it (I.e. Don't go chasing down piety, go commerce!).
 
With respect to the OP, I'm wondering if maybe the problem is depth of play. With, say, Brazil, you really have to change your play style to get the most out of the UA. I used to think that there was babs, poland, and then a bunch of crappy civs. Then I figured out that I needed to play a few times with each guy to really get a feel for synergies with policies, etc. Maybe OP just needs to pick a couple of the more interesting ones and learn how their UA powers them.

Btw, I used to hate Venice for the above reasons. I just needed to play them more than once to get it (I.e. Don't go chasing down piety, go commerce!).

But if Venice doesn't start near the coast...
 
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