Fallout 4

Mustakrakish said:

Have you guys seen the new IMPROVED skyrim they're releasing in October? It... it has... better textures and... and "volymetric lighting" or whatever it's called. Never mind it looks exactly or slightly worse even than my old skyrim on PC.

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I mean, AT LEAST those of us who play it on PC are getting the upgrade for free. That free upgrade is kind of pointless though since there are Skyrim mods out RIGHT NOW that make the game look better than this will look. The fact that they're charging full new game price of $59.99 for console users though is a serious slap in the face. I know they're peasants, but they still deserve better than that.

Maniacal said:

I don't understand why anyone would expect anything else from Bethesda at this point.

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This. Bethesda used to be a company that got my unwavering trust. Not anymore. I fully expect every game they release in the future will be worse than the ones before it.

Nuka-World looks like it could be fun. One of the massive holes in Fallout 4 is its lack of variety in the kind of character you're allowed to play. Not only is everything black-and-white, the game chooses "white" for you. You can't play a Supermutant or a Ghoul, or become a Raider (you can sorta fake being a Ghoul or a Raider, with the right gear and Perks, but the game won't really treat you much differently).

The question remains whether the Raider gameplay will extend into the Commonwealth or will be restricted to the Nuka-World zone. Far Harbor's content is 99% restricted to the Far Harbor island zone. I've seen none of the new monsters in the Commonwealth. I found one Gunner using a Harpoon Gun and I almost wondered if that was a bug, because I otherwise haven't seen a single one of Far Harbor's new weapons in the Commonwealth, and I've found not one round of .45-70 ammo there.

Anyway, Nuka-World could be fun. I wouldn't mind being a Raider for a while, wherever I'm allowed to be.

Wolfbeckett said:

This. Bethesda used to be a company that got my unwavering trust. Not anymore. I fully expect every game they release in the future will be worse than the ones before it.

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idk why they would have your unwavering trust, fallout 3 was blown out of the water by new vegas, and it's been a long time since those games released. tbh I never got why people loved bethesda so much right up until the release of fo4...

i didn't really care much for skyrim either, and that was five years ago. imo fallout 4 is better than both of those, especially fallout 3. I don't understand why people are complaining about bethesda's writing like it's some new thing, fallout 3 came out in 2008 and the writing was horrid, stepping up to sufficiently mediocre in fo4 is an improvement. And at least the gameplay in 4 is fun.

People expecting Bethesda to make a game like New Vegas is just silly, they're not Obsidian. Fallout 4 is pretty much exactly what I expected it to be, and I enjoyed it for what it is.

EgonSpengler said:

Nuka-World looks like it could be fun. One of the massive holes in Fallout 4 is its lack of variety in the kind of character you're allowed to play. Not only is everything black-and-white, the game chooses "white" for you. You can't play a Supermutant or a Ghoul, or become a Raider (you can sorta fake being a Ghoul or a Raider, with the right gear and Perks, but the game won't really treat you much differently).

The question remains whether the Raider gameplay will extend into the Commonwealth or will be restricted to the Nuka-World zone. Far Harbor's content is 99% restricted to the Far Harbor island zone. I've seen none of the new monsters in the Commonwealth. I found one Gunner using a Harpoon Gun and I almost wondered if that was a bug, because I otherwise haven't seen a single one of Far Harbor's new weapons in the Commonwealth, and I've found not one round of .45-70 ammo there.

Anyway, Nuka-World could be fun. I wouldn't mind being a Raider for a while, wherever I'm allowed to be.

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meh, do people really enjoy being a pointlessly evil goon? Does anyone actually align with Caesar's Legion (and if they do, I'm guessing it's not on the first playthrough)? On the list of complaints/issues I have with Fallout 4, "I can't be a cackling evil maniac" is at the bottom, that never appealed to me in the first place. I'm much more bothered by the revamped leveling and dialogue systems.

I was cautiously optimistic for nuka world until I heard it was about raiders. Raiders in FO4 are dull and uninteresting.

But Fallout is a role playing game. Emphasis on the 'role playing' part. It's not about what you think is right or wrong, it's about playing the role you want to play.

Regards.

Zack said:

idk why they would have your unwavering trust, fallout 3 was blown out of the water by new vegas, and it's been a long time since those games released. tbh I never got why people loved bethesda so much right up until the release of fo4...

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I never said it was Fallout 4 that caused them to lose my trust. They gained my trust with Morrowind, still one of the best games I have ever played, but it's been pretty much all downhill since then. Oblivion was worse than Morrowind by almost any metric. Fallout 3 was... too different than TES to really compare the two, but it wasn't good, and it's badness came into sharp contrast as soon as New Vegas was released and I had something to directly compare it to. Skyrim was better than Oblivion in some ways, worse in other ways. Call it a wash overall. Fallout 4 might not be the worst game Bethesda has released in the last 15 years, but it's certainly the worst RPG. They didn't lose my trust with FO4, it's been eroding for a long time, FO4 was just another wind storm eroding it down to nothing.

If they haven't made a game you liked in 15 years, why would you keep buying games from them?

salty mud said:

But Fallout is a role playing game. Emphasis on the 'role playing' part. It's not about what you think is right or wrong, it's about playing the role you want to play.

Regards.

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again, do people ACTUALLY play an evilulz character, or do they just want the option?

Zack said:

If they haven't made a game you liked in 15 years, why would you keep buying games from them?

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Because I'm a consumer whore idiot who easily buys into hype and marketing.

Zack said:

again, do people ACTUALLY play an evilulz character, or do they just want the option?

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I've never played as an explicitly evil character, but I would like to see better fleshed out raiders. One of my favorite games of F3 was with some mods where I was allied to the raiders and was able to recruit random raiders to join my war party. I rampaged across the map killing other raider groups and looting villages. The inclusion of not-explicitly-evil raiders as a joinable faction where you could lead a warband would be a neat feature.

Zack said:

again, do people ACTUALLY play an evilulz character, or do they just want the option?

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Umm, yeah? In fact I did side with ceaser's legion to answer your earlier question. You want to know WHY? Because my character was proslavery. In fact my biggest goal in the game was to become a mercenary slaver for them, sadly I couldn't. Guess what I did in F3? Yep, slavering. I was unhappy with mechanic, it was rather dull, I hoped for something more involved, but anyway... What both characters had in common? They also done good stuff when it suited me, didn't blow up megaton, because the whole notion was absurd and unprofitable. Hated cannibals, yada yada, point is black and white is stupid, real choises are good.

Do people ACTUALLY PLAY a goodlulz character? What are you trying to say? Everyone should be playing goody McGood face? There shouldn't be an option to be less of a black and white character or outright "evilulz" as you put it? I'm confused here.

Raiders are boring mindless creatures... I agree. So making them something else... is bad? Again I'm confused.

Mustakrakish said:

Umm, yeah? In fact I did side with ceaser's legion to answer your earlier question. You want to know WHY? Because my character was proslavery. In fact my biggest goal in the game was to become a mercenary slaver for them, sadly I couldn't. Guess what I did in F3? Yep, slavering. I was unhappy with mechanic, it was rather dull, I hoped for something more involved, but anyway... What both characters had in common? They also done good stuff when it suited me, didn't blow up megaton, because the whole notion was absurd and unprofitable. Hated cannibals, yada yada, point is black and white is stupid, real choises are good.

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I think black and white choices like the megaton bomb are stupid, so I was confused why people are complaining about the lack of black and white choices. That's a prime example of inserting an evil choice being a bad design desicion.

Do people ACTUALLY PLAY a goodlulz character? What are you trying to say? Everyone should be playing goody McGood face? There shouldn't be an option to be less of a black and white character or outright "evilulz" as you put it? I'm confused here.

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no, i'm saying i find it weird it's such a big complaint. There's no option to be evil in The Witcher 3, have literally never heard anyone complain about it there. I'd like more meaningful choices than good choice, bad choice.

Raiders are boring mindless creatures... I agree. So making them something else... is bad? Again I'm confused.

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When did I say that? Raiders are boring and mindless so I'm not too enthused about a dlc centered around boring and mindless characters...

Zack said:

If they haven't made a game you liked in 15 years, why would you keep buying games from them?


again, do people ACTUALLY play an evilulz character, or do they just want the option?

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Yes, people often play "evillulz" character. It's not because of some suppressed urge to tip your fedora and be rebellious, it's because you want to play as an evil character and see how it impacts the world and what happens.

But isn't the dlc trying to do just that, improve on that, make them not just boring and mindless? I might be wrong on that, didn't really watch what it's all about, just a hunch.

Never played witcher, but it is as far as I know about a certain character. With choices that make sense for that character and his story. Fallout or elder scrolls is about creating your own character, and your own character needs choices to shape. Meaningful, silly, stupid etc. which all together help you shape your character, so witcher while a good game, not a good example... and weren't you the one saying these games are different and incomparable?

Who complained about the lack of specifically black and white?
EgonSplenger said "Not only is everything black-and-white, the game chooses "white" for you." I wouldn't say that a specifically a complaint for lack of black and white. You then said "Does anyone actually align with Caesar's Legion?" and "do people ACTUALLY play an evilulz character, or do they just want the option?" Which kinda implies to me, that you are the one seeing black and white here, when it's not. My character in NV was all about profit and survival, which fits the theme. I was proslavery because saw it as potentially profitable, (hoping it was better than in F3 and more involved. It wasn't) hence joined Caesar, plus on the role-playing aspect saw it that post apocalyptic archaic lawless wasteland needs an iron fist. I don't see this as black and white. It has more to that. But yes, there are black and white choices just because. I don't think they're bad to have though, silly yes, but again help you shape the character in the long run.

Sorry for over analyzing.

Unfortunately though, you're often roleplaying in spite of the game choices, not because of them. I'm still annoyed by Skyrim's frequent choices of 'yes', 'tell me more' or 'stop everything until I agree'. Lod in Falkreath was a particurlarly egregious example.

Arakhor said:

Unfortunately though, you're often roleplaying in spite of the game choices, not because of them. I'm still annoyed by Skyrim's frequent choices of 'yes', 'tell me more' or 'stop everything until I agree'. Lod in Falkreath was a particurlarly egregious example.

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And, to get back on the main thread topic, this was even worse in Fallout 4. Every single thing in the game:

"Will you do this task for me out of the kindness of your heart since there's no option to ask my about compensation ahead of time?"

A. Yes
B. Sarcastic Yes
C. No that ends up meaning yes after all
D. Give me more information so that I can say yes

Wolfbeckett said:

And, to get back on the main thread topic, this was even worse in Fallout 4. Every single thing in the game:

"Will you do this task for me out of the kindness of your heart since there's no option to ask my about compensation ahead of time?"

A. Yes
B. Sarcastic Yes
C. No that ends up meaning yes after all
D. Give me more information so that I can say yes

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They also make you a General in the Minutemen and provide you with no authority whatsoever, and whathisname continues to order you around. You don't even get the typical four "options" you've outlined, he just assigns you a mission whether you want it or not. The only way to avoid being on the hook for a new mission is to avoid clearing the old one after you've completed it (if you just blow it off, it eventually says you've failed, which is also fine because there are no consequences for failure ).

I will say this for the game: It's incredibly large, with a ridiculous number of locations, and many of them are well designed and fun to crawl around in, even if nothing is really going on. After playing for a godawful number of hours, I'm still finding new places to delve into that cry out for someone to tell their stories. Viewed simply as a setting for some grand adventures that have yet to be written, it's just tremendous.

If this game could be the CRPG equivalent of the game-world campaign books I used to buy for tabletop RPGs, with mod tools that enabled writers who don't know jack about PC graphics or game design or coding, to craft missions and stories and dialogue and so on, I think it would have no peers.

I'm probably dreaming, but hey, that's still allowed, isn't it?

Haven't followed news on this game much, but it's on sale on steam now

are the dlcs worth it?

Lohrenswald said:

Haven't followed news on this game much, but it's on sale on steam now

are the dlcs worth it?

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They're more of the same, so if you enjoy the main game you'll probably enjoy the DLCs. Of the two big DLCs, I liked Far Harbor more than Nuka World; both take you to a whole new zone. The robots DLC, I forget what it's called, adds a short adventure and the ability to build robots at your settlements. I think there are two DLCs that just add more junk to build at your settlements.

Note that none of the DLC make any changes or corrections to the base game's problems and shortfalls. If the base game has you grinding your teeth, buying the DLC is just throwing good money after bad.

There's an interesting-looking mod in development called Frost Survival Simulator. It transforms The Commonwealth into something that sounds like Metro 2033. Only a handful of years after the war, the survivors scrape by in the tunnels under the city. The surface is a massively-radioactive wasteland; you can't even stick your head outside without a gas mask. It doesn't specify, but judging by its name, it may introduce New England winters to the game. Metro 2033-meets-The Long Dark?

Zack said:

Does anyone actually align with Caesar's Legion

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Yes, multiple times. I just played New Vegas again recently and sided NCR initially, only to rebel against them and join the legion. I know it's more cheesy that way. The biggest problem with the game is most quests are NCR, and it really is the fastest way to level up. The game isn't perfect, but after going back I can see how good of a game it is. The bugs are a serious problem though, and the game crashes too much. That and the lack of Caesar quests are the main drawback.

Yeah they are the "bad" guys, but there are some advantages to siding with them. Like getting rid of most crime and prostitution in the wasteland. Of course being slavers can never be considered good, and don't get me started on their misogyny is really bad.

You are either a Role playing game or you are not. People think role playing games are where you go up in levels. I disagree with this notion. That's why I can never consider the Diablo games RPG's even if they are good action games. The Fallout and Elder Scrolls franchises are also turning into action games, not RPG's. I love Fallout 4, but not as a RPG. It's just a fun shoot 'em up exploration game. Edit: but I will say Fallout 4 is more of a RPG than Fallout 3, and a much better game overall. You do get one important choice in the game being which faction you support. So I commend them for that.