Lexicus
Deity
Traitorfish said:
You're talking about the Likud party right?
Post-Nazism
- Thread starter Tahuti
- Start date
You're talking about the Likud party right?
Lexicus
Deity
Well, sure, not literally, but they are far more Nazi-like than Donald Trump for example. I've said it many times, Benjamin Netanyahu makes Donald Trump look like a respectable statesman.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
This will surely be a fruitful and non-contentious avenue of discussion.
Lexicus
Deity
I would actually argue that Israel itself is a major manifestation of "post-Nazism." Zionism after all is basically just exported Volkische nationalism...and the European refusal to deal with the refugees from the Holocaust essentially condemned the Palestinians to endure decades of what the peoples of Europe put each other through for the first half of the twentieth century.
There are already increasing calls to deport the Arab population of Israel into the occupied territories. Anyone who's familiar with the basic outline of the Holocaust should know where that ends up leading.
There are already increasing calls to deport the Arab population of Israel into the occupied territories. Anyone who's familiar with the basic outline of the Holocaust should know where that ends up leading.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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The problem is, Zionism is on a limbo between Völkisch Nationalism and Revolutionary Nationalism. Its revolutionary nationalist credentials are obvious: It achieved the founding of a state for a people who just survived a genocide. However, Likud's rule over Israel arguably made it the central representative of Zionism in general and thus heading towards a Völkisch direction.
Here we see a problem all kinds of nationalisms eventually face: The increase of power. It usually starts with an intellectual's wet dream, then becomes a rallying cry for freedom and finally, once the nationalists are securely in power, nationailsm becomes as oppressive as the order before it, if not more.
In that respect, Zionism is hardly unique: The Netherlands fought itself free from Spain, only to begin a colonial empire of its own. Japan embarked on colonization after the Meiji Reforms. Almost all nation-states seem to crave a colonial empire upon their inception, if its within reach.
I've written a book on this topic.
You really are clueless on this topic. Also, nothing you said actually refutes the point I was making at all, or defends the stupid point you made. You don't even seem to realise that Goebbels succeeded Hitler as Fuhrer and was still alive when Hitler died.I find it very difficult to believe you read many books. I assume you just make claims, say you read them in a book, and therefore the evidence isn't online for you to post or have to defend. It's rather pathetic, really.
Not just early Nazis. Eichmann's "Vienna Model" basically consisted of getting wealthy Jews in Palestine to pay for the expatriation of Viennese Jews to the Holy Land.
You've written a book on this topic, and you think Goebbels succeeded Hitler? I'm sorry, that doesn't bode well for the book:
Note the bolded part.
I don't recall making a claim 'I read many books'. I suggest Dachs for that; he seems well-read.
Funny how you make arrogant claims about Wiki, until you decide to use it yourself. And you are wrong, in any case. Your own bolded quote confirms that Goebbels succeeded Hitler, FFS.
What part of Hitler named no successor did you not understand exactly?
And kindly stop straw manning. I didn't 'make arrogant claims about Wiki'. In fact, I made no claim whatsoever. The person making arrogant claims about someone else would be you.
And kindly stop straw manning. I didn't 'make arrogant claims about Wiki'. In fact, I made no claim whatsoever. The person making arrogant claims about someone else would be you.
What part of appointed Goebbels as Reich Chancellor don't you understand? You're the smartarse who told me to "actually read a book" on the subject after checking Wiki over something earlier.
I don't think you know what a strawman is. I really wish I hadn't bothered replying to you earlier, but I figured since it was a separate topic I might give you a chance to be a sensible human being. Clearly I was mistaken. Someone is desperately lonely and needs to pick fights on the Internet to fill some deep psychological need to feel superior to people, even though their arguments are consistently wrong.
Now, if you'd pointed out that I made the mistake of writing "Fuhrer" instead of "Reichskanzler," you may have had a point. But that mistake by me flew completely over your head, because you don't actually know anything at all about the period. Or likely anything, given what I've seen of you on these boards.
Verbose
Deity
There were cynical Soviet jokes about the DDR how amazing it was that all the old German Nazis ended up in the western sector, while everyone in the Soviet occupation zone had never been anything but good Marxists.
Who in the west regarded the DDR as the "more contrite" Germany d'ye think?
Verbose
Deity
Well, Goebbels was Reichskanzler for all of 24 hours, until he shot himself.
Amazingly Goebbels was then succeeded by the improbably named, totally obscure, Lutz Schwerin von Krosigk — who wasn't a Nazi, and even ideologically opposed to it — for about three weeks, until the Nazi state was abolished.
Dönitz was named Reichspresident instead of Hitler.
No one was named Führer though.
Amazingly Goebbels was then succeeded by the improbably named, totally obscure, Lutz Schwerin von Krosigk — who wasn't a Nazi, and even ideologically opposed to it — for about three weeks, until the Nazi state was abolished.
Dönitz was named Reichspresident instead of Hitler.
No one was named Führer though.
Buster's Uncle
AC2 Owner
Would I be breaking the rules if I commented that I agree? I'm really asking.
Moderator Action: Unfortunately yes. Positive comments on moderator actions are still public discussion. Kindly report posts in future and allow staff to handle it. Thanks.
Moderator Action: Please return this thread to civility or it will be closed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
Which would seem to be the point. Given that the end was near anyway, the whole matter was academic in the extreme.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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- 9,492
As I mentioned earlier a couple of times, France could perhaps have decided to prefer the GDR over the FRG. First of all, Franco-Soviet ties were somewhat warmer than between the Soviets and other Western nations. France also had occupied parts of Western Germany. Finally, Western Germany had US support, of which the French weren't comfortable with. FDR considered to place France under the Allied Occupation Authority as had happened with Austria and Germany; only his death and De Gaulle's participation in the Liberation of Paris prevented that, though France would remain ever distrustful of the US ever since.
Distrust of the Anglo-Americans was De Gaulle's special privilege, not some attribute of the French state. Also, what France could have done vis-a-vis East Germany is basically an argument from alternate history. The decision to re-erect Germany (the overwhelming majority of Germans living in the West part) was more the result of a disagreement between Eastern and Western allies on what to do with it and couldn't have come about without the agreement to join the French, British and US sectors into one. A bigger issue was the rearmament of Germany, but this was part of the plan to integrate it firmly into the West via NATO membership. Obviously this produced some serious objections, not just in France, but in the UK as well - after all, it was only a few years since WW II's end. Not surprisingly, the USSR was even more firmly opposed to such a plan, but they were in no position to prevent it.
In short, I know of no French plan to recognize the GDR above the FRG. And apparently, nor do you.
In short, I know of no French plan to recognize the GDR above the FRG. And apparently, nor do you.
