GOTM23 Succession Game [civ3]

Alan,

Good job you didn't play it, I'm just back from watching Monday night (American) Football, its past midnight and I would have played it and made mistakes. I'll be ready for it tomorrow with a fresh mind.

Smackster
 
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I think my Mac's trying to tell me to give it a nice new black pussy cat to play with. I played my ten turns, saved it, and transcribed most of my notes into a forum reply. I went out to run a taxi service for my wife, came back and found the dreaded translucent screen of death staring at me. So I had to type all my notes up again. My Panther (Mac OS X 10.3 for the philistines among you) was delivered yesterday, but I deliberately put off installing it to get this sequence finished first :(

Anyway, here goes again .....

I looked at the save, and your comments and suggestions, and tried to formulate a plan. My conclusions were a little different from yours, as I decided not to make peace with Suleyman. My reasoning was as follows:

The idea of a peace deal was (a) to reduce the pressure on us and (b) to get the Romans to capture Iznik for us so that we could take it from them.

Well, first, I couldn't see too much pressure coming our way. The barb uprising seems to have subsided, the Ottomans are only throwing new build archers at us, one every few turns, and the Romans don't seem to have much to hit us with either. I felt they had probably thrown their main force at us and we could now expect a slow dribble of new build units - more than from the Ottomans, but not enough to cause trouble.

Second it seemed to me that Iznik would not be building new defensive units because according to F7 it was building the Great Library. So it shouldn't be too big a nut for our swords to crack. My guess was two or three spears defending. But Rome might not do it with their few pathetic archers, and we'd be stuck with the Ottomans as allies for 20 turns.

So I checked around, renegotiated peace with Egypt for 34 gold and their map and decided to stick with the current state for a few turns. My objective was to gain and hold territory as fast as possible. To that end, build up a strong force in the south east, and keep building settlers to fill spaces and to replace any auto-razed cities.

Hit next turn:

Romans kill our scout. Roman galley appears. Roman archers and warriors move towards Sogut.
Sogut sword>horse(30). Madinah sword>horse(3). Diriyah worker>worker(3). Damascus sword>horse(5). Jeddah horse>horse(5). Basra warrior>warrior(5).

T1 330 BC
Sword walks into undefended Bursa. One unhappy citizen > taxman.
Spear into Kufah - not sure if he was supposed to be going to Mosul, but I decided to defend Kufah as a French warrior was sniffing around. Workers complete road to Mosul in jungle. Move to spices.

5/5 sword kills Roman warrior near Iznik > 3/5, no leader.
4/4 sword kills Roman arher near Iznik > 3/4, no promo.
Wounded horse to Sogut to heal. Spear to defend 3/5 sword.
3/3 sword kills archer near Sogut > 2/3. Spear from Sogut to defend him.

Diplo check: France now Polite, was Annoyed.
Its too quiet on the western front. Buy an alliance with Spain vs. Zulus for 5 gpt = 10 gold + wmap. If they break it we haven't lost much.

IBT: Carthage signs peace with Zulus.
Ottoman archer appears near Iznik. Barb horse attacks sword and dies.
Dhahran barracks>horse(10)
Persians start Great Lib and build Bactra near our olives city.

T2 310 BC
3/5 sword kills Roman archer > 1/5, no leader.
3/4 sword kills barb camp, 25 gold. Build Snagha on horse hill.
Barb horse visible near Snagha.
Switch Madinah to Aquaduct.

Buy a new alliance with Carthage plus wmap for 6 gpt + wmap. Just want to keep the west busy.

IBT: Ottoman archer moves into mtns. towards Sogut.
Romans move towards Sogut. Barb horse attacks Snagha and dies.
Baghdad horse>horse(6)
Egypt completes Great Lib in Thebes. Rome completes Pyramids. Persia completes Great Wall. Other civs with Monrchy cascade to Hangng Gardens.

T3 290 BC
4/4 sword kills Ottoman archer > 1/4. Other troops consolidate and heal.

IBT: Barb horse attacks horse and dies.
Makkah settler>settler(4). Diriyah worker>worker(3)

T4 270 BC
Build Sirplebidah on lake south of Madinah > warrior (10)
Build Khurasan on south coast near Antalya > temple.
Rush temple in Sogut (108 gold)
Continue troop recovery and build-up on mountain west of Iznik.

IBT: Roman archers attack approaching horses. They have unexpected extra range because they have bought a ROP with Suleyman. One horse dies. Now I'm a bit cross!
Sogut temple>barracks(40). Basra warrior>barracks(14).
Paris completes hanging Gardens. Cascade is over.
Egypt builds Abydos on *our* south coast.

T5 250 BC
Our swords attack archers on mountains and hills around Sogut. Kill three, one sword dies, red-lining one archer. Horse kills Roman warrior. Horse kills barb horse.
France has Republic, monopoly, won't sell. Rome will talk now, but has nothing to say.
Rush temple in Khourasan (116 gold)

IBT: Roman archer kills a wounded sword.
Damascus horse>horse(5). Jeddah horse>horse(5). Khourasan temple>spear(20).

T6 230 BC
4/4 sword kills Roman archer > 3/4
3/3 sword kills Ottoman archer > 4/4
4/4 sword kills 1/4 Roman warrior.
Sword takes out barb camp in the eastern desert, 25 gold. India has build a city there.
Upgrade a warrior. Rush a temple in Bursa (100 gold).

IBT: 2 Roman spears and settler appear near Iznik. Not sure where they are going?
Diriyah worker>worker(3). Najran sword>horse(8). Bursa temple>spear(20).

T7 210 BC
Sword kils Roman warrior fortified near Sogut. Regroup for attack on Iznik.
Renegotiate peace with India fo r124 gold + wmap.

IBT: Makkah settler>settler(4). Riyadh sword>horse(10).

T8 190 BC
Sword attacks archer near Sogut and dies. Spear kills redlined archer.
Sword kills Roman archer > 2/4, sees Ottoman archer in forest south of Iznik.
Buy a Carthage worker for 23 gold + wmap. Rome now has Republic. Doesn't want to swap it for peace, not that I had any intention of doing so.

IBT: Ottoman archer kills wounded sword. Barb horse attacks sword and dies. Roman settler/spear are heading north, probably towards the coastal iron.
Baghdad horse>horse(5).

T9 170 BC
Horse kills barb camp on south coast. Joan still wants silly money for Republic. Buy Persian worker for 22 gold+wmap.

IBT: Carthage wants to swap territory maps. Hmmm! OK, Hanny, let's renegotiate peace. Kerrrr-chinggg ... 43 gold + wmap.
Diriyah worker>worker(3). Dhahran horse>horse(8). Akaba warrior>warrior(10).

T10 150 BC
Kill 2 Ottoman spears and capture Iznik. Finger trouble - selected the wrong unit and sent a spear to his death :(.
Status
I've set Iznik for starvation. There are 4 resisters, and it would only produce 1 shield whatever you do, so my strategy is always to ethnically cleanse captive cities to remove later war weariness problems. Smackster may have other plans...
Swords and horses also killed 2 Ottoman archers and 2 Roman spears, and the territory is fairly clean. Just a Roman spear in the mountains to dispose of.

Rome is currently only sending out spears. I think they are struggling. There's one Roman spear/settler pair heading towards the unclaimed iron on the east coast.

Ottoman cities are at our disposal, and we can move on towards Rome, deprive them of iron if possible, and we could have the Pyramids in another day or two. We have reinforcements arriving - horses and swords. One settler is moving south - I was going to settle between the two Egyptan cities on the south coast, but other options are open. Another settler is heading for a position on the southern end of the Persian lake. A sword is moving to defend him. Workers are moving to road in those directions.

Mistakes: I could have used the taxman in Bursa as a scientist ad saved 10% science and I lost a spear unnecessarily taking Iznik - just selected the wrong unit. The lux tax has been at 10% throughout as well. I should probably have thought more about my sliders.

Here's the save, and here's the current screenie ....
 
AlanH
Smackster (24 hours to get it)
Karasu (on deck)
Alweth
MacBaldrick
 
Yea I got it.

I will certainly starve out Iznik during this major resistance period as there is clearly a flip risk with capital distances. Izmit and Ayden will have to go, but I wont stop moving on Rome as that is clearly the most important target. I'll keep a sword near Iznik in case of flip and leave it empty.

Stroke of luck Rome getting the Pyramids as that will surely help us.

I am playing this early for once so can take my time over it. Catch you all later.

Smackster
 
Originally posted by smackster
I'll keep a sword near Iznik in case of flip and leave it empty.
Leave at least one unit in Iznik or the resistance will only die when the people do. As the resisters give in you can make them into starving taxmen, a concept I find strangely appealing :D

AlanH
Smackster (playing)
Karasu (on deck)
Alweth
MacBaldrick
 
150BC

Take a look at dip, can get Republic for a silly amount will wait. No peace with anyone for now, still in alliances against Zulu, don't like the flip chance with Iznik on Otto and we want the Pyramids. This 10 turns will be war war war.

Move one of the Akabah warrior to a promotion town, not needed in Akabah have a sword and warrior there. Bringing the Riyadh spear to the front as its far enough in our lands not to defend.

Pushed the slider to 100% cash. 20 turns to Engineering, can't really do it much quicker without losing stacks of cash.

ET

IBT Carthage sign peace with Zulu again, I wonder if their rep can get any lower. 4 Roman archers come into view, approaching Iznik. We'll let them come and heal.

T1 130BC

Damascus horse->horse, Jeddah horse->horse
Could really do with a barracks in Iznik, worth the risk of losing it to flips. Can't rush resistance.

Set the Snagga workers to irrigate. Sword moves next to Uskudar and its undefended. I will destroy it next turn, I just don't want those cities around.
More swords and horses rush to Iznik, should have troops ready to push next turn. The Roman archers will be easy meat.

I notice that there are a couple of Ottomans left in Sogut, wonder what happened to the starving of Sogut?
Send warrior from Sogut to keep eye on settler near iron, who is now sitting on iron, have nothing to attack it with right now.
Made a mistake with southern settler, as I didn't see him below the sword.

Renog peace with Spain for 53 gold, Spain has Fuedalism now, Egypt have it too. No trade thankyou.

ET

IBT 4 Rome archers come next to Iznik, 2 others one square away. 6 nice easy kills.

T2 110BC

Killed three archers, no upgrades, no leader from one elite attack. Left one archer on hill near Iznik, one vet sword fortified in city, hoping for the archer to attack across river, and then letting the sword kill one of the next wave of archers for a guaranteed promotion. Rushed barracks in Iznik for 156 gold, expensive but allowing our troops to recover quickly is more important than gold. Will continue to starve out Iznik now as I'm now obsessed with getting a leader ready for the FP in Rome.

Why does it feel like I've played 10 turns already.

Moving settler to lake near Leptis Magna. Now my feeling is that these settlers are purely for either resources or space filling, so the best position for domination.

Don't need defence in Makkah, push sword out west as Carthage can't be trusted.

Destroy Uskudar, I was willing to take it for peace, actually they did offer it but I wanted all the Otto cities for peace, would only give two. Now they will only give one, looks like they wont give their last city away (not including capital).

ET

IBT Romans refuse the chance to attack across the river, put another archer on hill. Will have to think about this one.

T3 90BC

Mosul Spearman->Temple, leave sword in place for now in case Persia gets funny.
Narjan Horse->Horse
Madinah Aquaduct->Library. As I'm sure one of you warmongers will change it, I'll rush it near the end. I believe that we need a little commerce boost in our core cities.
Alexmanistan Sword->Horse

Worker completes road to Persia, we have no resources to trade. But get worker for WP + 25 Gold.
Built Anjar on the lake near Persia, might cause them to attack, defended by swords.

Sword kills Roman archer, horse kills Otto archer, decide to attack archers on hill, kill one, wound second, no losses horses retreated.

Romans settle next to iron, but we put a warrior on it.

Nothing to trade

ET

IBT Carthage Archer comes near, Roman archer move away.

T4 70BC

Sirplebidah warrior->spearman
Bagdad horse->horse

Swords begin long march to Rome, we can deal with Otto in its own time. Sword attacks Byztantium (rome) to the north, kills spear, but another left.

ET

T5 50BC

IBT 2 Carthage swords approach from west, 2 archers from SW, I've seen this before, we'll counter with our own swords, the weak Roman archer approaches Iznik, signs of desperation.

Jeddah changed to sword.

Elite sword kills roman archer, vet horse kills roman archer, vet sword dies attacking antayla, elite horse kills spear in antayla.
We can now take techs for GPT, so when we decide to kill our rep we should take one and declare war next turn. I already don't see much use for reputation in this game, but I wont destroy it until we all agree.

ET

IBT Carthage seemingly move to go around our southern border, will watch them carefully. Rome attack a weak horse on a hill who retreats but is trapped, can we send help in time.

T6 30BC

Jeddah sword->horse
Damascus horse->horse
Riyadh horse->horse

Destroy Antayla another elite win
Massed sword and horse movements into Roman territory, kill a roman archer

ET

IBT Carthage massed troops carefully skirt our land. Trapped horse dies, he will be revenged.

T7 10BC

Large stacks of death approach both Lutitia and Hispalis which sound like spanish cities to me, but appear to be Roman, what do I know.

Iznik down to size one now, safer to grow, AlanH will be pleased.

ET

IBT Carthage continue to send troops carefully round the southern border, could be approaching our undefended cities in the core, will keep watching very carefully. I'm sure now they are going to attack. Rome appear with an endless supply of archers, decide to let a 3 stack attack our stack of death on the mountain outside Hispalis.

T8 10AD

2 swords and a horse capture city Lutitia NW of rome, horse kills roman archer in open.
Otto launch counter attack near Kurasan with a warrior from galley our sword eats him for lunch.
City of Byzantium captured to the north, linked to our lands.
Footsat formed near lake next to Carthage, the sword there is close enough to cut their Iron if the attack comes.
Aden formed next to sea between Egyptian cities.

ET

IBT Carthage make right turn towards our land, no border broken, but the intent is obvious. Rome move over from their own city, don't attack our troops on mountain

T9 30AD

Bahgdad horse->horse

horse kills archer on hill, horse dies to archer on hill, horse dies on attack on hispalis, horse kills one unit in hispalis, one weakened 2hp spear unit left, decide to use the elite sword to finish him, and then it happens...................................Smackster's Revenge generates Uthman for the slaughter of our defencless horse near Aydin.



Still hispalis was not taken, horse kills archer in hispalis (elite upgrade), sword kills archer in hispalis still not taken, sword kills 1hp spear in hispalis, city is taken at last.

Elite sword kills archer on hill, vet sword kills archer on hill, Uthman has room to get out to safety.

Block off carthage troops on mountains akaba, still expecting trouble here.

Happiness slider squeezed 10%

ET

IBT Carthage come to their senses move away. Rome puts more archers into attack, kills one of the sword defenders in hispalis.

T10 50AD

Makkah another settler, in another game I'd stop producing them, but here as we want to claim all the land space we can't rely on capture need to actually settle most of it.
Library in Madinah, back to horses

Just defensive movements for this turn, still under a little pressure from Rome, but only with archers, they are going to run out soon.

Here is the picture around the Roman front lines. Careful moves are required here.



Here is the picture of the Carthage troop movements. Still watching.



10 turns to Engineering, stacks of cash, probably need to think about getting republic soon. Uthman is in Iznik, which is funny as although its only size one, must have a flip chance still, I advise that he's moved next turn, if it flips this turn, I'll resign my commision for puting him there, I was just trying to get him out of the front lines. Hispalis should be safe as Smackster's Revenge is holding the fort there.

Summary

One turn left for alliance with Spain against Zulu, might as well declare peace now, get whatever we can for it. France has some money now 39gold so we can renegotiate for it. Egypt has cash too, I've been watching they didn't until now.

The settlers out there are just filling in the gaps, don't need to rush the temple until much later, 5 turns before we are ready to dominate in fact.

I had planned Uthman for the FP in Rome, but clearly its up to the rest from now.


SG23C_AD50.zip

Smackster
 
Good job Smackster. Sorry about the Ottomans in Sogut, as they weren't starving when I took it, I assumed I had been shouted down.

Why does it feel like I've played 10 turns already.

I know how you felt!

Now my feeling is that these settlers are purely for either resources or space filling, so the best position for domination.

Absolutely. We are way past the optimum city count, so until we get our second core new cities are for land, resources and denial.

AlanH
Smackster
Karasu (playing)
Alweth (on deck)
MacBaldrick
 
Interesting. Izmit grew from pop 6 to 9 during your 10 turns. I wonder if workers joined it.

It's probably going to take another ten turns to take Rome. I've been wondering whether it's worth using the leader to build sooner so that we can start fishing for the next leader during those battles. Options are (1) build the FP near to Makkah - perhaps Madinah or Diriyah then use the next leader for a palace in Rome, or (2) build it in Iznik. Option (1) to some degree exploits the remote palace bug to reduce corruption in our starting core. Option (2) gives us a chance of an army with the next leader, and then the Heroic Epic for more leaders. Any thoughts?
 
Good work by all.

Since I am away from home this weekend - from Friday to Sunday (cross-country running with lots for post-run beer) I think you will have to skip my next turn. I will jump back in on Monday hopefully. I trust that is OK.
 
I meant to mention the Izmit growth, I did see it go from 6 to 8 in one turn, so they must have dropped workers in there, I wonder what makes the AI do that. Probably Otto had no money to support them.

I think our most important objective is to get the 2nd core running. We can rush the FP in Rome but until we destroy all their cities there is a risk of flip and that would destroy our FP. We can build the FP in Madina in 14 turns (manipulate it to max shields). That would allow us to use the leader for a palace in Rome the very turn that resistance ends. I think that is the quickest safest method to get the two cores running. We don't need to starve Rome as it will be immune to flips, and pretty safe to keep the rest as well, which gives a very powerfull 2nd core very quickly.

If we risk using the leader on something else we risk not seeing another leader for a long time.

If we play the percentages we should keep this leader and use him on a palace in Rome.

Just my 2 cents.

Smackster.

BTW if Karasu hasn't played it yet, you do need to manipulate Madinah, I was in between MM for some squares and they need to go back, like not using the mined hill, forgot to mention that.
 
Originally posted by smackster
I think our most important objective is to get the 2nd core running. We can rush the FP in Rome but until we destroy all their cities there is a risk of flip and that would destroy our FP. We can build the FP in Madina in 14 turns (manipulate it to max shields). That would allow us to use the leader for a palace in Rome the very turn that resistance ends. I think that is the quickest safest method to get the two cores running.
I didn't look at how much faster Madinah could hand-build the FP, I just saw 29 turns and thought that was too long. I'm not sure how you get it down to 14 without stealing Basra's only food tile - the olives, but if you can do it that sounds like a good plan.

BTW, Smackster. What was the idea behind the library in Madinah? If we want to multiply cash we need markets and banks. A library only multiplies beakers, and we aren't doing them. I'd have gone for a market. It gives double-bubble with improved happiness as well.

Who should we get in our sights next? The civs that are showing growth in the power and culture histographs currently are Egypt, France and India. Carthage is showing signs of getting restless, and I can't quite see what that stack they sent was trying to achieve. Persia could get aggressive if we let them get their hands on iron and build Immortals, so we probably ought to take them out fairly soon. His road system is still a bit primitive, but those silks look useful. Carthage and Egypt are also local and convenient for our swords and horses, and Egypt could donate the Great Library to our cause. India and France are a bit distant until we can get our UU into action.

@MacBaldrick: Cross country ... that sounds too much like the torture I was put through as a lad. I hope you enjoy it, I guess we didn't have the beer as anaesthetic in my day. Thanks for the warning. I'll move you to the current end of the roster. That way you only slip and don't actually lose a turn unless we play extraordinarily quickly for the next few days. It only brings Smackster and me forward, so if Smackster is OK to take another crack at it this weekend here's the revised roster:

AlanH
Smackster
MacBaldrick
Karasu (playing)
Alweth (on deck)
 
What happens if our Answar hords start to struggle with Muskets? And we are nowhere near researching MT?

We certainly look like we could generate enough Answar (although we are a long way from researching Chivalry at current rates, 50 turns) that we can overthrow any amount of Muskets, but there is a chance that we wont. I remember Qitai's post from GOTM 22 when he didn't even build a temple in the entire game, and took over the world, but I say that if by luck or whatever reason his main domination plan did not work, he had no plan B. I don't want us to get behind in tech find we can't fight our way out of it, and can't research anything quickly either.

So I built one Library, instead of 2 horses. I don't think we'll be able to tell the difference, but that is essentially why, just in case we need our plan B, not much of a plan B. Actually I think the leader building the palace will make this irrelevant.

Smackster
 
Alan,

Yes 14 turns (or so, give or take one) stealing the olives, taking into account the mine build that is about to happen.

I would like to attack Persia next (after we have secured Rome, but we might be able to attack before we have finished Rome and Otto). I would also like Spain and France to fight, and Carthage and Egypt to fight. We should ally with Spain against France, and then later Egypt against Carthage. We should only fight one main neighbor at a time.

Smackster

P.S. It was only one Library
 
Here I am. Had a hell of a day at work, so I didn't have a chance to play yet. I will today, promised!

I like a lot the idea of building the FP in Madinah and leader-rush the palace in Rome. I'd really go for that plan.
By the looks (I did manage to open the save, even for a brief moment), we need some more forces in the roman area to conquer it as quickly as possible.

We need to decide what to do with Carthage.
Having to divert some forces to our SW border is a bit of a waste; on the other hand, we haven't got enough military yet to fight on two fronts against close neighbours.
Options:
- Start a war with Carthage (we might get Egypt and / or Persia and / or France into it, just to keep them busy). I am starting not to dislike this idea. A bit risky, though.
- Start a war with someone else and get Carthage as an ally; in this case I'd pay them gpt to see if this can prevent them from breaking the deal after two turns.
This option has the advantage, if successful, to remove the carthaginian forces from our borders without our getting involved in another war (I would try to ally again against Zulus or against Rome).

Next target: I see Persia as a good candidate too. Egypt are also worth considering, especially if they manage to build Sun Tzu.
It may be good to start with Persia and take their closest cities to make sure they don't connect the Iron. Then stop and re-assess the situation.

As a general approach, I would like to settle in the direction of India to speed up a possible future invasion (let's not forget they will have War Elephants...).

There is another possibility we may want to consider: if we capture the Pyramids quickly (Religious) and are lucky enough to get another leader, we could rush the Lighthouse (Expansionist) and trigger our GA through wonders. This will allow us to get to Chivalry in a shorter time, and to speed up the buildup of horsies and cash for the upgrades.
In fact, I am not expecting to do a lot of research after we reach Chivalry (except Invention to get a chance on Leonardo).


P.S.: Smack, don't worry about that library. I'll probably keep it... :D
 
Originally posted by smackster
Yes 14 turns (or so, give or take one) stealing the olives, taking into account the mine build that is about to happen.
Note that stealing the olives will starve Basra back to pop 2, as we don't have any irrigation there yet.

I would like to attack Persia next (after we have secured Rome, but we might be able to attack before we have finished Rome and Otto). I would also like Spain and France to fight, and Carthage and Egypt to fight. We should ally with Spain against France, and then later Egypt against Carthage. We should only fight one main neighbor at a time.
Spoilt for choice, aren't we! You are right about muskets. We need to be ready to use our Ansars as soon as we hit Chivalry. Karasu has a good point about triggering our Golden Age as soon as possible. That way we can have more horses ready to go, and more gold ready to upgrade them. We could then take out two or three neighbours before muskets appear, then wait for Mil Tradition, upgrade again and wipe out the rest.

P.S. It was only one Library
Never mind, I just didn't understand your reasoning, and thought I might be missing something. Actually the biggest impact is that we could be much closer to an FP in Madinah now.

We'll have Chivalry in less than 50, because it'll be researched by the AI.

@Karasu: I can't see the logic behind Carthage's preference to threaten us rather than go for the Zulus. I tried a 6 gpt hook for the alliance with Carthage last time, and they still reneged a few turns later, for the second time, so their rep is already shot to pieces. If we bribe them with more it *might* hold them longer, but we'll impact our treasury growth. Maybe we need to get Carthage out of the way next with Egypt's help, then go for Egypt and Persia.

Scheduling: If Karasu plays today, that gives us the following predicted playing windows:

Alweth - Friday/Saturday
AlanH - Saturday/Sunday
Smackster - Sunday/Monday
MacBaldrick - MondayTuesday

Please let me know if there are any problems with this sequence?
 
Alan,

In case its not clear, my PS about the library was a subtle attempt at humour :)

The only safe war that I see right now is to ally with Spain against France, they have a big open border that they should fight across.

Or a little more risky, is we ally with France and Carthage against Spain. Our borders are a little closer to Spain but probably safe to do that.

We cannot afford to fight Egypt or Carthage right now. I don't know how tough Rome will be to crack, but our troops there need some rest and I'm afraid that the Carthage incursion did stop me sending reinforcements to Rome. Now we could do with those 2 horses from Madinah :)
 
Originally posted by AlanH

Note that stealing the olives will starve Basra back to pop 2, as we don't have any irrigation there yet.
Yes, so whoever does it can make the choice. Now we don't need the FP until we have Rome mind.

Originally posted by AlanH
Alweth - Friday/Saturday
AlanH - Saturday/Sunday
Smackster - Sunday/Monday
MacBaldrick - MondayTuesday
[/B]
I have a free weekend, so will play the same day as you
 
Sounds good to me.
What about Spain and Carthage (with a try with Egypt) against France?

And yes, it looks like we need most of our forces to clean the roman lands.
I will try to see if we can spare four-five Swordies for a blitz on Persia in a while, though.
 
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