Warmonger expiration

I understand that the Warmonger penalty now expires or lessens with time, but has anyone figured out how long this takes. Does the clock start ticking when you make peace or after your last warmongerry action (i.e., the DoW, seizing cities, etc.)? I ask because I'd like to understand the consequences of never settling for peace.

It dose diminish over time but not very quickly. Going warmongery for even a short time can hurt your relations with other civs on your continent for the rest of the game. Thankfully you may still be able to pursue peaceful relations with civs on other continents if they did not know you during your warmongery days.

In one game I took out two neighboring civilizations in the the first couple of eras and did not shack the "war mongering menace to the world" till around the modern era. After my initial expansion push I settled into a peaceful science victory for much of the intervening year, but it didn't help.

When I steal a worker from a CS, the warmongering penalty will wear off pretty quickly. I'd say around 30 turns maybe?
Howebver if you attack another civ and finish it off, the penalty lasts much, much longer.

I think burning cities to the ground also affects the warmonger diplomacy penalty, but I haven't tested this to see for sure.

Taking Cities, especially Capitals can lead to people denouncing you. Even people you have DOF's with. Even if he's far away.

In my recent immortal game, I captured Persian capital and everyone else stayed friendly with me.

Syntax Error said:

Taking Cities, especially Capitals can lead to people denouncing you. Even people you have DOF's with. Even if he's far away.

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Not really you just need to pick you're target better if you dow someone who is friends with a lot of people and make peace the person will denounce you and all his friends will not like you because of this..

SO just dow someone who hasn't friends or has been denounced by a lot of people if he is denounced by a lot and no friends just denounce before dowing..

Its all about forming pacts you can clearly see which AI like eachother when they ask do you want to go to war with... means they don't like them

I said "can". Not certainly. I've had games where I eliminated the Pariah and I'm buddy buds with everyone else.

Syntax Error said:

I said "can". Not certainly. I've had games where I eliminated the Pariah and I'm buddy buds with everyone else.

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This is one of the things I find most frustrating about Deity. Diplomacy is so key, and it usually comes down to luck. Sometimes you need to attack someone, and there's no way to avoid massive diplo hits, so you end up screwed for the rest of the game. Sometimes, everyone just loves you for it. Thanks, massively random factor that kicks in after 100+ turns.

In my current game, I ended up on a continent with Dido and Arabia. (As Bismarck. Blah, but I want the Master of The Universe achievement)

So, I park my second city right next to Dido's capital, trying to piss her off, and she just wants to be friends! Ok, weird, but fine. Grudgingly I accept, mostly because I know Harun is going to build Petra, and I want it. I would have attacked him first anyway, but there's a massive jungle right up to his capital, whereas Dido's capital area is mostly plains, and her tile expansion went *away from me* and has 3 unguarded hills in the 2nd tier on my side. In other words, I could have dropped 3 catapults onto that ring of hills in the same turn I DOW'd. Right. Easy pickins.

But, she wants to be friends and Harun just built Petra, so everyone turn around and march through the jungle. Time for the landsknecht blitzkrieg! I get there, DoW him, take heavy losses, but my slow, steady stream of landsknecht can't be stopped. (They cost like 70 faith lol, I was popping out one every 3 turns just from that)

I take his capital, and he offers me marble and money to stop. Why not, I need to replace some catapults. I denounce him, hit Next Turn, and lo and behold, Dido says "I share your conviction that Harun is an asshat."

She denounces him too! Then two turns later, she asks me to DoW him! I ask for ten turns, finish restocking, etc., and we tag team his new capital. (Which just built Macchu Pichu, and I of course get the killing blow)

So, wars over, Harun is history, along with his annoying religion, and no one from off the continent has met us yet. Dido loves me. Which makes me feel a little bad, because she's totally next. By the time anyone gets to our continent, I'll be the only one left.

The point is, this was so randomly favorable to me. Yes, I made some good choices, like combining Holy Warriors with Landsknecht for a zergling rush, but ultimately it was sheer luck that there were no diplomatic repercussions to slow me down or screw me for the rest of the game. I've had so many games go south because of being backed into a diplomatic corner!

Did you settle that city before or after you made DOF's with her? Also, yes, Germany is a killer at land. 16-strength unit that costs only a bit more than an archer. Also, how did you get so much faith early on?

Syntax Error said:

Did you settle that city before or after you made DOF's with her? Also, yes, Germany is a killer at land. 16-strength unit that costs only a bit more than an archer. Also, how did you get so much faith early on?

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I think I settled it *after* the DoF? I don't recall. Maybe that helped?

As to the faith, about 12 tiles from Harun's capital was the 6 faith wonder... Sinai? Right next to hers was the 2food, 6faith one... Uluru? Well, technically both were next to city states. The one next to Harun was on the other side of the jungle from him, so I can see why he chose to expand into his desert instead. I was honestly lucky to get the desert pantheon, given his start. Heck, the placement of the wonders was lucky too. Both happened to be good staging areas for an attack.

I started out farming barb camps for brutes, archers and spearmen. Only got like 3 units that way, but 3 free units is 3 free units. I sold my resources and bought 2 settlers, then snagged both wonders. That gave me +12, and I had a flood plains start with +1 faith for desert tiles. (Which I only recently realized worked with flood plains)

My second city with Uluru had flood plains as well. All my barb camp farming got me ally status with two different faith generating city-states, so they were giving me +8 I think. And of course by the time I had landsknecht, the CS bonuses had improved. So, I was sitting around 30/turn when I DoW'd him.

I basically left those two cities on autopilot, generating faith and units, no buildings at all except monument I think, while I teched up to civil service, building catapults and spearmen. I went full Honor, so my upgrades from Spearmen were 5 gold each. Hah!

That's what really worked out well. I mean, 5 gold to go from 11 to 16 strength? Wow. The cheap upgrades gave me an instant army, and I had enough faith saved up to pump out 2 more per turn for quite a while.

In both cases I expected near immediate DoWs, but I wanted them to DoW me, so it wasn't really that risky, except for Dido could have caused me some trouble if she chose to betray me.

Oh, I remember, his first city was on a river, and not desert. His other 3 cities were desert though. That's probably how I managed to snag the pantheon. I did build a shrine early on in my first city, but that's usually not enough to win a race.

I'm thinking I would have been better served to rush a national college before planting cities 2 & 3. It took me a long time to get civil service without one. But I was worried about losing those spots.