SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Definitely Superconductors first, though we'll really need to rush Apollo after, as we'll probably want to put hammers into SS parts by then. I figure 20 RIs would be worth about 500bpt from the free Sci + another few hundred in extra beaker multiplier. This conveniently also gives Roosevelt a chance to research Artillery for us, on the off chance he does go Steel > Arty next and we get the opportunity to boost him via Steel sale. Though I doubt it would be fast enough.

Agree with simultaneous R'N'R / Eiffel builds in Siberia and Hammer.

Not sure we can even afford a turn of Slavery. How much research are we pulling in from Caste right now? Cristo is a big build...

The Fusion GE actually might not be so far from a 3600gpp backup... That's an option if we do get screwed, assuming, ofc, that we don't actually pop a GE from London or Bahamas.

Edit:
Just thinking: We're getting the 3 Caste at very high odds (95% +) from Pigs, Fish and GP. The other two are quite low odds to completely screw us. The likely screw-up would be 2 GP or 2 Spy or extra Artist from Bahamas. Right? I'm wondering if we need a GA backup from Pigs, or if we could just run Sci there. Yes, we do - it's the last one popping. Better safe than sorry. Also, if the Fusion GE came in, for instance, 16-17t, it would be only maybe 1t behind a 3600gpp backup. It seems unlikely that we could get a GE from London or Bahamas and fail to get 5 different types. That makes me think we might be ok running Sci/Mer everywhere but the 5 cities. Would we need to run caste specs anyway to push 3600gpp in places like Beijing or Bermuda?
 
Note on Stalin (not sure I mentioned this):

He has 4 Grens guarding resources next to Moscow - I included these in the unit count. If we were spy-revolting and attacking amphibious, they might not figure into it. Though, we'd need to make sure they don't re-capture, ofc.

What sort of numbers do we need in Marines? Worth testing?
 
India:

I couldn't see a way to take Bangalore in 2t after DOW. Our galleys are currently locked into position by his borders. I'd prefer less turns at war to extra Sushi resources, so I'm still in favour of leaving Bangalore and Madras be. Alternatively, we could take Lahore + Varanasi / CF / take Bangalore in 1t / peace?
 
I'd prefer minimum war with Gandhi to be honest - our cities are going to be very tied up.

As for the GPP situation, I was not planning on running any back-ups at this point. Unless London + Bahamas gives us both GE (unlikely), we should get the necessary people for a fifth golden age.

I'm re-working the PPP now...
 
Moscow:
Build marines.

Fish:
Build wealth, Hire 16 merchants (162 GPP/turn) to pop GM on T+8 @ 2800.

Siberia:
Build wealth for two turns. Start dam on T+2, complete on T+7. Set build to R&R,
complete on T+10.

Pigs:
Mining dude for Rostov. Pop GS on T+1. Then build wealth.

GP Farm:
Finish observatory. At T+2, build wealth. GPP plan is 204 for two turns, then 213 for
two turns, then 267 until T+12 (it’ll hit 2972 allowing Bahamas to beat it for the 3000
GP), then crank enough to pop the 3300 GPP on T+13.

Cuba:
Finish harbor, then wealth. Hire all merchants here.

Bahamas:
Build wealth. Will pop GSpy/GE/GP on T+12 for 3000 GP

Bermuda:
Wealth(2). Build university (1, breaks even in 8 turns). T+3-8, wealth (while Siberia is offline). T+9, barracks (1). T+10, build
marines for Stalin – Roosevelt campaigns. Fire spies for merchants.

Rheims:
Harbor (1). T+1, build wealth.

Bananas (will later build a casing or thruster):
Observatory (2). T+2, build wealth.

Paris:
University(2). T+2, build wealth.

Kamchatka
Factory(3). Build two workers(1 each). T+5, build wealth.

Orleans
Wealth(1). Barracks(1). T+2, wealth.

Chengdu
Revolt (3); factory(?); barracks(?); marines

Bcool island
Wealth

Shanghai
Wealth(1). Barracks(1). T+2, wealth.

Crabbes
Observatory(1). T+1, wealth.

Beijing
Observatory(2). Barracks(1). T+3, wealth.

Guangzhou
University(2, 6 turns to break even). Barracks(1). T+3, wealth.

Nanjing
Library(1). Barracks(1). Observatory(3). T+5, wealth.

Hammer City
Wealth

Tours
Factory(3). T+3, wealth

Haiti
Coal plant(1). Observatory(2). T+3, wealth.

Hastings
Mining exec for Oxford (1). T+1, wealth.

Nottingham
Forge (4) timed to growth in 4. T+4, build workers. This city is kind of useless…

York
Library(1). Re-hire scientists, Factory(6). T+7, wealth.

Oxford
Factory(7). T+7, wealth

Newcastle
Forge(4). T+4, wealth.

Iron Spice
Galleon to scout remaining fog (1). Library(1). Observatory(3). T+5, wealth.

Mitchum’s Oasis
Courthouse(2). Forge(5). T+7, wealth.

London
Jail(1). Observatory(2). T+3, wealth.

Canterbury
Wealth(1) to ensure gold for two turn plastics. Factory(3). Library(1). Observatory(2). T+7, wealth.

Warwick
Build workers (useless city).

Steam
Factory(5). Observatory(3). T+8, wealth.

Rostov
Granary (3). Forge(2). T+5, wealth.

Yaroslav
Granary(2). Forge(5). T+7, wealth

Yekaterinburg
Courthouse(2). Granary(3). Forge(5). T+10, wealth

Jamaica
Forge(5). Drydock(3). T+8, wealth until transports available.

Vijay
Mining exec(4); forge(4); mining exec (3)

Agra
Courthouse(6); workers

Delhi
Courthouse(19); workers

Patali
Workers

Bombay
Workers

Calcutta
Workers

-------------------------
Research will be plastics (2), then we'll drop in bpt to about 3600 or so because Siberia can't build wealth. So research will be radio(3), computers(2), at which point we'll have power, effectively boosting bpt by 1000 or so so superconductors should be 2 turns. I think we'll have to re-assess the utility of research institutes at that point. It should break even in most cities but we also have to start thinking about apollo part construction around then too.
-------------------------
War-wise, what is the consensus for Gandhi (I have no clue what's going on over there)?
 
Cuba: has Lib+Uni+Obs - hire Sci, not Mer. Bermuda: not sure, I guess Mer is fine.
Doesn't seem like you're building any more execs? We still need some. Mining pays off everywhere. Sushi anywhere with a CH is still useful for a while.
Are we settling further resources?

Gandhi:
DOW
Land the units from Calcutta 1E from Lahore; bombard with trebs and acc cannon, charge and capture next turn
Move the north knight in, for a potential worker grab
Move the galleys from Vija into Varanasi - not sure if we wanna land and take next turn or revolt city and attack from ships. He has a bunch of units on the galleons in Madras that he was moving back and forth between the two cities. If we land and attack next turn, he'll likely drop them back IBT. We are already at 5-6 WW unhappy in cities like Moscow and we're quickly obsoleting happy resources now, so ideally we take Varanasi and Lahore in 2t and sign peace. Bangalore and Madras have Sushi resources, but no fallout. I've been arguing against suffering further WW for them. bcool would like to take Bangalore. Not sure how to get to it in under 3t. We could move some units from Pataliputra south, then load onto galleys that dropped off in Lahore, then amphibious strike...
 
I don't see how we can really afford to build executives - we are a bit cash strapped at the moment.

If we're going to take WW against Gandhi, I would prefer to wait until after Plastics is in to make sure we can start the dam in 2 turns. I don't see the merit in picking up additional sushi resources at this point. Our big cities are mostly mature and the return from extra food will not be worth the amount we have to pay for that extra resource across the entire empire. Mining resources on the other hand will still pay for themselves. Are there some specific resources you had in mind for settling?
 
There is an iron north of Siberia. Obviously, also the coal we already have a settler at. bcool has been pushing for further expansion, but I'd be ok stopping there. I thought Bananas could build the iron settler, then the Mining Exec for it. There's a Sushi exec sitting in Bahamas, as well (I miscalculated with that one) - you should use the galley in Cuba to pick up that one and the idle worker. Don't spread Sushi before CH, though. Just have it sitting - we have no issues with the Sushi 5-exec limit anymore.

Speaking of Mining resources, there's a gold east of Chengdu that's already flipped to our culture. I started scrubbing for 1t, before the city went into revolt. You should make sure we do that after 3t. There's also a fish north of Shanghai that I completely missed. Perhaps we could build the WB in Chengdu when it's out of revolt.

Spreading corps costs 75g atm, but we have to do it. Mining everywhere and Sushi with CH pay back in about 8t right now, via wealth buildage and spec hiring respectively (I think, roughly).

WW: if we delay further, I'm gonna feel really silly for not just signing a 10t peace treaty like I wanted to. We'll obsolete fur with Plastics, which is 2 happy with market. It will hurt us even more later - esp in Siberia with wonder builds, and our GP cities.

I don't think we'll need the Steam-Marseilles canal anymore, btw. Not sure, but don't think so. Maybe we could have Steam build its own worker in 1t, and workshop those tiles. Then we could also start pre-workshopping a bit in GP Farm.
 
I guess I'd be ok with delaying Plastics to 3t, as originally planned, if it means we can be done with Gandhi and continue spreading corps aggressively. Really hard to balance everything at this point...
 
I don't see the rush to finish Gandhi since it's not like he's going to pick up anything useful in the interim. And isn't the dam worth more than a few executives?
 
I would wait on Gandhi until after the dam and we have a chance to address happiness in critical cities like the ones generating great people and siberia.

Maybe take Gandhi after eiffel tower and rock and roll are finished.

I think plastics in 2 turns delaying a few builds is the way to go.

Mining exec still do pay off well. After Plastics I wouldn't mind seeing a few more mining exec builds.

Otherwise looks pretty good.
 
I'm ok with delaying Gandhi indefinitely. Just really wish I signed a peace treaty. If we're doing that, is there any chance Gandhi will actually DOW us? That would double the Refusal to Talk period.

Also, if we're delaying, we should get Sushi to Pataliputra and Calcutta immediately, to try and flip the two Mining resources. Our galleys are freed up now, so let's maybe send the current Sushi exec from Hastings and Mining from Newcastle to India. I'd still try to build and organize the execs right now, even if you don't intend to spread 'till T+2. The logistics are tricky.

And, let's see how we can get some workers over there asap.

Edit: if we're delaying the war, we should get another spy over to Lahore.
 
OK, I can change some of the English cities to mining execs after plastics is done. Is sushi really worth it? I think each extra resource is going to cost upwards of 50-100 gpt now...
 
Good point on Sushi resources - yes, one more would cost us approximately 25-30gpt (with CH) by my quick calculation. Maybe we don't need more - our top cities are capped by happy/health anyway.

That's a separate issue from corp spread to further cities, though. We probably still break even in money in cities below size 10, assuming CH. Spreading Sushi to them let's them grow to pop 16-18 at a rate of 1 per turn with Granary. Just hire all Sci and you've made 330b in the first 10t even without a Lib, at a cost of 100h+75g and very marginal maintenance increase, and it keeps giving after that.
 
If we have the units to take two of Gandhi's cities now, should we just do it now before we obsolete fur? It will give us immediate access to two? Mining Inc resources (don't have access to the save at the moment). Then we could move all units into position for the Stalin and Roosevelt campaigns. We should be able to afford a two-turn war, right? Let's get it over with...

I agree that Plastics should be a priority to get in two turns.

The test of the PPP looks fine with the addition of the other comments made.
 
I think war weariness was up to 4 or 5 in most big cities at the end of the last Gandhi war. I think a Gandhi war right would probably push back Plastics 1 turn.

I think waiting until we have R&R and Eiffel tower would be better. Most of those units aren't going to be needed for Stalin (since we can do it with marines and a few spies).

By the way Shyuhe are you planning on sending 2 spies over to Stalin's capital?
 
R&R and Eiffel add three happiness. Losing fur removes two. Won't we be in the same boat no matter when we declare? The sooner we fight the sooner we get access to the mining inc resources and the sooner we get use of the captured cities. Everything is in place now. It seems like a waste not to just get it over with... Plus, if Gandhi does happen to declare on us first, it won't be a two-turn war.
 
If we pick up any WW, plastics will be in 3 turns - it's that tight in beakers right now. I agree about holding off on Gandhi - he's not going anywhere and unless he can vassal (need to check), it really doesn't matter what he does. The mining resources would be nice, but I think the dam one turn earlier is worth a lot more.

I don't see how picking up additional seafood at this point (other than the one WB on its way) will outweigh the cost of an extra fish resource churned through our empire wide corporation. Mining will break even (pretty sure) so I'm ok picking up mining resources.

@bbp - The two downsides to spreading corporations is that (1) we need cash to pay the guy in the first place and (2) we're trying to rush towards superconductors for earlier research institutes. Once Siberia starts to build the dam, we are going to lose about 400 gpt for 5 turns, which we need to make up in wealth builds in other cities. I'm worried that we just won't have the cash to spread more sushi corporations. As a compromise (of sorts), would it make more sense for me to play 2 turns to the completion of plastics so that we can see what our economy looks like once we obsolte furs? The other option is that I can build a PPP based on a 3 turn plastics run, which has the luxury of opening up more city builds across our empire.

As an aside, it just occurred to me that Siberia's build should probably be wealth(1), hospital(1) to overflow some hammers into the dam. Otherwise, the unhappy citizen that pops up from fur obsoleting will push the dam into a 6 turn build. The 5 turn build finishes with current production with 5 overflow hammers, which won't be there if we lose an engineer. I can make up most of the lost Siberia cash from Moscow and a few other cities.
 
R&R and Eiffel add three happiness. Losing fur removes two. Won't we be in the same boat no matter when we declare? The sooner we fight the sooner we get access to the mining inc resources and the sooner we get use of the captured cities. Everything is in place now. It seems like a waste not to just get it over with... Plus, if Gandhi does happen to declare on us first, it won't be a two-turn war.

The difference is that declaring on Gandhi slows down the dam by at least a turn, which is a bigger loss than the increase we get from the mining resources and the extra cities.
 
Top Bottom