Scouts

And yet, somehow I failed to do it under those conditions.

:mischief:

If you do things well it's very difficult to fail under these circunstances. I had only missed it for two times because I did several mistakes and both of them were in tiny islands map.
 
If you do things well it's very difficult to fail under these circunstances. I had only missed it for two times because I did several mistakes and both of them were in tiny islands map.

You're playing Standard Deity with at least 5 enemy civs? It's bullspit man.
 
If you do things well it's very difficult to fail under these circunstances. I had only missed it for two times because I did several mistakes and both of them were in tiny islands map.

I was making a joke about playing against myself and not being able to build it.
 
You're playing Standard Deity with at least 5 enemy civs? It's bullspit man.

You just have to want it, and try as many different ways of obtaining your goal till you get it. Neither build orders listed involve a scout. You want a scout. You get 1 warrior, 1 settler on diety, you need the scout. You also need to steal your workers from the AI, they start with 2. I can get GL on large and huge maps with 10+ civs consistantly. Yes.. diety.
 
You just have to want it, and try as many different ways of obtaining your goal till you get it. Neither build orders listed involve a scout. You want a scout. You get 1 warrior, 1 settler on diety, you need the scout. You also need to steal your workers from the AI, they start with 2. I can get GL on large and huge maps with 10+ civs consistantly. Yes.. diety.

Granary -> Writing takes 22 turns, there's no way to hasten that except lucky ruins. So you have 10 turns to generate 185 production (you need to finish by turn 32 to get it reliably).

Palace (3:c5production: ) + City on hill (2:c5production:) + 3x Hills (6 :c5production: ) = 11:c5production:/turn, and this will starve your city
So you get 110 production from your city, you need to make 75 from chopping forests to finish the GL.

That's 4 forests chopped. You can't start until turn 26 (Mining takes 6 turns), and it takes 3 turns to chop.

So I do believe that means it's possible. You need to have TWO workers and they need to both be standing on forests on turn 26 and then there needs to be another two forests within 1 turn's walk from them (within your territory or you only get 13 hammers). Chop 26, 27, 28, move on 29, chop 30, 31, 32.

If you're Egypt you only need three chopped forests, but you still need two workers so it's not much different. Egypt with Monument to the Gods/Aristocracy (impossible to get both without huge luck, Pantheon is actually extremely lucky to get in time even as Maya, probably not possible at all without Maya/Ethiopia) only needs two chops, lets you get away with one worker (but it has to be stolen, which requires significant luck).

Summary
It is possible, but you need:
Settler to spawn on a hill (moving costs you a turn and means the second forests won't finish chopping by 32, so you won't get it consistently even if everything else is perfect)
3 additional hills in range
2 good food tiles (I think only Flood Plains Wheat is good enough to reliably reach 3 pop)
4 forests in range, in pairs that are one turn from each other
Nearby enemy civ that can be found by your Warrior in time to steal a worker and get him back by turn 26 (this just breaks the strategy altogether, no Scout means this is 50:50 at best, probably much worse)
Enough gold from CS to buy the extra tiles you need

Not so bad really...

Of course, unless you are Babylon you can't finish Calendar in time, so you are popping Great Library and getting a tier 2 ancient tech at best.
 
If ruins are on, build scouts to get ruins, if ruins are off, build scouts to find your opponents/harass. Snagging a worker or settler or even getting in the way of them settling can be huge. Learning the lay of the land early can also make you decide what to tech for, what to make and even what social policies to pick.

If you are vs the AI on easy mode with no ruins then sure. Scouts are not useful.
But vs humans they are important for recon/harass
 
I've gotten some really good lolz out of this thread. Thanks for the laughs, guys!

I'm sure the OP also reliably wins science victories on Deity by turn 200, right?
 
You just have to want it, and try as many different ways of obtaining your goal till you get it. Neither build orders listed involve a scout. You want a scout. You get 1 warrior, 1 settler on diety, you need the scout. You also need to steal your workers from the AI, they start with 2. I can get GL on large and huge maps with 10+ civs consistantly. Yes.. diety.

The topic is specifically about scouts though and the TC claiming he doesn't need them.

Everyone should call bull until any proof is provided. I will believe even a few screenshots to show him building it and also what the game settings are.

They won't be provided though.
 
The topic is specifically about scouts though and the TC claiming he doesn't need them.


I dunno. I kinda thought that the main topic was about the desire of one or two people to feel accepted and admired by the community but without really knowing how to go about obtaining it.

I'm still hoping that it will end like a cliched afterschool special, where they realize that they didn't need to exaggerate their accomplishments to be respected - all they had to do was to be themselves.
 
Alzadar... Where is your scout? And I don't use a pantheon for extra production. The difference between getting the GL or not can somtimes come down to 1 population found in a ruin. Your scout is how you will get the GL.. Very powerful unit if used correctly. Getting the policies up, faster with a ruin. Can;t be that hard to find 5 ruins, or even 8.. much harder with just a warrior, and even harder to take 2 workers.
 
I'm not quite sure on a few things with the OP:

1) As at least one other poster said or alluded to, building a scout on turn 1 is never going to interfere with the GL on almost any level, let alone the higher levels. After all, the scout will be finished before Writing is teched if you build the scout immediately.

2) Why is the GL so necessary? It's one of the better wonders, yes, but BNW has mitigated the science issues at higher levels by making trade-routes give science to any civ that is behind in techs compared to the destination/origination of the route.

3) Other than missing out on the free tech (admittedly a big loss), couldn't you simply conquer the city that built the GL in some situations?

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I think the main reason people are attacking the OP is that if you somehow lack the production to build a scout prior to teching to Writing, and you were trying to build the scout from turn 1, then it's almost mathematically impossible that you'd finish the GL even on Prince before someone else, because that would be one awful production level. Hence, it's important to clarify as to whether you are building anything else before the scout, and if so, what it is.

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On the other tack, in defense of the OP:

Are you playing a standard-sized map? And what qualifies as 'higher levels'? Because if you are playing an Emperor/Duel game, then I'd have to say that the GL is do-able if your opponent doesn't prioritize the GL and you have Marble. Under those circumstances, it's not so unlikely, though I'd still not fully understand the trouble building a scout unless something else is getting built first that isn't mentioned.
 
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