The Real World

First off, if this is the wrong forum for this let me know. I looked around and this seemed best.

As I've played civ I've often thought about real life. Would you say any civ has won any victory condition in the past/present?

If so: Who and why?

If not: How's come closest.

I love learning about history and the world and am sure to enjoy everyone's insights. A source for any facts you share would be appreciated but not required.

Thanks! -Elliot S

Diplomatic: US
Science: US
Domination: US (Has capital's of Shoshone and Iroquois)
Culture: France
Time: Good question. Anyone know the exact formula, and bother to calculate the exact score every nation?

No one has won Time, how is that possible? We can`t know that until the end of time can we?

Also, Domination, that`s in dispute. One could have once said the Romans, then again, the British, plus a few other Empires that spread pretty far out once. And there`s likely more after America.
Culture again is in dispute: What about italy?

Some of these artificial goals in Civ 5 can`t truly represent reality. It`s gamey goals for games, not real life. This is why I actually ignore them and Play On. the only time I actually stop is when my Civ is wiped out- Now that has indeed happened to many Civs in real life- that`s when you really LOSE.

The US are certainly not Science leaders today, and defiantly haven't sent a ship to the moon. While we (I do live in the US.) have the middle of the continent and strongest military, there are still tons of other countries and city states in the world. Diplomatic is the only one I can actually say the US could be said as having accomplished. Our Military seems more Gunboat Diplomacy style, and we can pretty much demand anything from anyone and force them to give in.

As for Cultural. France seems less than influential. I've always seen a cultural victory as being that declaring war on a county would have such a backlash from from your population that it's not feasible. That the ideals of that country are adopted through the world.

I would hardly rebel if the US attacked France for a good reason. Actually, even for no reason. Nothing against France, but they're not worth me fighting to save.

I don't know enough about past civilizations to say much there, but it seems present day US still has a diplomacy lock/win.

To those with the knowledge, which civ has controlled the most of the world? While some might have taken over their local area, how many have had a lot of territory over seas and such? It seems like Spain had a good amount of space in the Americas when their conquistadors were around. Rome controlled a lot of Europe and some of Asia and Africa at one point right? How big was it at it's height?

ElliotS said:

The US are certainly not Science leaders today, and defiantly haven't sent a ship to the moon.

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While the first point is up for debate (I'd argue against it since the computer and internet booms are pretty much sourced entirely out of the USA but whatever) the second point is... not? America has definitely sent a ship to the moon. That is a thing that happened. In case you happen to be one of them nutty conspiracy theorists who say it was faked, here's a fun video in which a professional cinematographer explains that, at the time of moon landing, it would have been impossible to fake it.

America got a cultural victory in the 20th century with the advent of coca-colonization. The "I have succumbed to your culture" screen is even a reference to this! I'd argue against an American diplo victory because there are still states that can veto our decisions in the UN.

For domination, nobody has ever actually had complete control of the entire world. I'll give credit to the Mongols (largest continuous land empire) and the British (largest naval empire) for getting closest.

I'd say Sweden and Switzerland are winning Diplomatic Victories even as we speak.

Wow, totally broke my brain. I was thinking about how we sent a ship to the moon, but certainly not alpha centuari. (Spelling's broken, I know.)

I feel kind of stupid for mistyping that.

ElliotS said:

The US are certainly not Science leaders today, and defiantly haven't sent a ship to the moon. While we (I do live in the US.) have the middle of the continent and strongest military, there are still tons of other countries and city states in the world. Diplomatic is the only one I can actually say the US could be said as having accomplished. Our Military seems more Gunboat Diplomacy style, and we can pretty much demand anything from anyone and force them to give in.

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Demand anything from anyone??Really?Sounds ignorant to me.What about Russia?(They just tried to demand Edward Snowden...fail)Heard something about China?Their military is even larger in number of soldiers and economy is booming.So you imagine that America could increase income taxes of China products and China is so helpless that they can't react with their own economical sanctions?I just want to make clear, AMERICA is not the only one with a big military and economy.

As for America Diplomacy. If the US said 'Every country needs to make English their national language, teach English in schools and make sure their whole population under 30 knows it by 2030. Anyone who won't do this will have the full force of our military wipe out your army and government, so that we may put in more agreeable people.' the world wouldn't be speaking English by 2030? (Setting aside possible difficulties with actually teaching it on that scale. Also ignoring whether the US gov could ever work together enough to make that happen.)

Gunboat Diplomacy baby.

I know America isn't the only one with a big military, but we do have the biggest. Russia would hand over Snowden if they thought we would respond with war. China's military is relatively new, badly trained and their country would have food shortages if we stopped selling food to them. Not to mention that they have no nuclear arms at their disposal, whereas we have many.

I'm not saying the US military is unstoppable, but I feel it would win a war versus any two countries. (Especially if we got our allies involved. I'm pretty sure Canada wants to keep the status quo on their borders.)

EDIT: I meant to quote in reply. This is to Atreju.

Socratatus said:

No one has won Time, how is that possible? We can`t know that until the end of time can we?

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Which ever nations last until 2025. We know for a fact that the Shoshone (not reservations), Iroquois (not reservations), Aztecs (not Mexico), Huns (not Hungary), Celts (not Scotland), Mayans (not Yucatan), Incas (not Peru), Romans (not Italy), Carthaginians (not Tunisia), Assyrians (not Syria), Babylonians (not Iraq), Byzantines (not Bosporus Strait peoples), Zulus (not South Africa), Venetians (not Venice), and Songhai (not Mali) won't win a time victory since their nation is destroyed

otaman1 said:

Which ever nations last until 2025. We know for a fact that the Shoshone (not reservations), Iroquois (not reservations), Aztecs (not Mexico), Huns (not Hungary), Celts (not Scotland), Mayans (not Yucatan), Incas (not Peru), Romans (not Italy), Carthaginians (not Tunisia), Assyrians (not Syria), Babylonians (not Iraq), Byzantines (not Bosporus Strait peoples), Zulus (not South Africa), Venetians (not Venice), and Songhai (not Mali) won't win a time victory since their nation is destroyed

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They could be "liberated" (happened to Poland and Korea)

(There are still people who call themselves assyrian, and are probably no more different from ancient assyrians than modern egyptians are from ancient egyptians)

ElliotS said:

As for America Diplomacy. If the US said 'Every country needs to make English their national language, teach English in schools and make sure their whole population under 30 knows it by 2030. Anyone who won't do this will have the full force of our military wipe out your army and government, so that we may put in more agreeable people.' the world wouldn't be speaking English by 2030? (Setting aside possible difficulties with actually teaching it on that scale. Also ignoring whether the US gov could ever work together enough to make that happen.)

Gunboat Diplomacy baby.

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The world already speaks English. It's the language of commerce and the language of the internet. If you want to participate on a global scale you have to suck it up and learn one of the most bastardized languages every invented by man.

Coca-colonization baby.

(Admittedly I have to give Britain credit for being the prior global superpower and forcing English on much of the world before we were even relevant, most notably India. There are actually more fluent English speakers in India than anywhere else in the world, fun facts.)

ekat2468 said:

Diplomatic: US
Science: US
Domination: US (Has capital's of Shoshone and Iroquois)
Culture: France
Time: Good question. Anyone know the exact formula, and bother to calculate the exact score every nation?

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England, Rome, Mongolia for Domination.
England owned the capital of, America, Iroquois, Zulu.
Rome owned the capitals of France, Spain, England, Greece, Byzantium, The Ottomans, Babylon, Assyria, Carthage, Arabia, Portugal, Morocco...
Y'know, I'd say Rome's already won Domination and just quit to main menu.

Arachnofiend said:

The world already speaks English. It's the language of commerce and the language of the internet. If you want to participate on a global scale you have to suck it up and learn one of the most bastardized languages every invented by man.

Coca-colonization baby.

(Admittedly I have to give Britain credit for being the prior global superpower and forcing English on much of the world before we were even relevant, most notably India. There are actually more fluent English speakers in India than anywhere else in the world, fun facts.)

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They speak English in America? Are you sure? (they certainly don't write in English...)

No one has mentioned US for culture victory yet?

Rohili said:

No one has mentioned US for culture victory yet?

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Actually, France is getting the cultural victory right now.

ElliotS said:

As for America Diplomacy. If the US said 'Every country needs to make English their national language, teach English in schools and make sure their whole population under 30 knows it by 2030. Anyone who won't do this will have the full force of our military wipe out your army and government, so that we may put in more agreeable people.' the world wouldn't be speaking English by 2030? (Setting aside possible difficulties with actually teaching it on that scale. Also ignoring whether the US gov could ever work together enough to make that happen.)

Gunboat Diplomacy baby.

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No they wouldnt - because the world has changed, despite having the worlds biggest military spending by far projecting force nowadays is difficult and theres no way you could invade say...china successfully...or india, or russia most likely.

Even successfully invading a small country such as britain would involve massive casualties.


The last country to successfully use gunboat diplomacy was the british empire- which didnt have the massive military america has now- but had over half the worlds manufacturing at its peak etc and of course a half decent navy.

It bullied china into taking opium in trade goods and ceding its own land (atrocious behaviour really), had the shortest war in history (47 minutes), bullied greece in the don pacino affair, bullied portugal out of africa and generally acted as the world policeman (sound familiar?).. but even at its peak britain had rivals.

Gunboat diplomacy worked because there were many undeveloped nations in the world.


Nowadays things are different, you cant just send a gunboat and expect other developed nations to fall over.

ElliotS said:

I know America isn't the only one with a big military, but we do have the biggest. Russia would hand over Snowden if they thought we would respond with war. China's military is relatively new, badly trained and their country would have food shortages if we stopped selling food to them. Not to mention that they have no nuclear arms at their disposal, whereas we have many.

I'm not saying the US military is unstoppable, but I feel it would win a war versus any two countries. (Especially if we got our allies involved. I'm pretty sure Canada wants to keep the status quo on their borders.)

EDIT: I meant to quote in reply. This is to Atreju.

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If you want to see how numbers overcome training etc look at the korean war ...

BTW china has had nukes for around 50 years now, they were the 5th? power to get them, US, then russia, then UK, then it may have been france or china im not sure..

Diplomatically speaking, the head of the United Nations General Assembly is Serbian. Belgrade I think takes that.

By Domination: England, Rome, Monglia have all come pretty close. Napoleon and Hitler both had a lot of in game capitals too.

Nobody is even thinking about Alpha Centauri yet so that either goes to America/Russia or hasn't happened yet.

More people visit France than any other country, America earn the most money from tourism while CHina spend most so Cultural could go to any.

Time I think is the only one left. I think we can rule out Babylon/Assyria/Carthage/Aztecs/Inca/Maya but most other destroyed civs still exist one way or another.


If we're talking about the American military then it is probably the strongest in the world although Russia/China is bigger in numbers; Britain/France is probably better trained and Japan is probably better technologically speaking.