Puppets Have Universities But Build Libraries??

docbud · Feb 27, 2016

Yup--Exactly that.

Had a game tonight and I puppeted several cities during my wars. And I noticed that they are building libraries even though they already have universities and public schools.

And this is late game--i.e., year 1940 or something.

And when I did annex a capital, it already had a university and a public school and I ended up buying the library because I had the cash.

How can this be? Don't you need a library first?

I have screenshots in case no one believes me.

Chum · Feb 27, 2016

docbud said:
Yup--Exactly that.

Had a game tonight and I puppeted several cities during my wars. And I noticed that they are building libraries even though they already have universities and public schools.

And this is late game--i.e., year 1940 or something.

And when I did annex a capital, it already had a university and a public school and I ended up buying the library because I had the cash.

How can this be? Don't you need a library first?

I have screenshots in case no one believes me.

Buildings burn upon capture. You don't end up with all of the buildings that the original owner built in said city.

inthesomeday · Feb 27, 2016

Half of the buildings burn, then it gets set to gold focus; usually it builds markets, banks, stock exchange, mints, etc first, and then in my experience it builds faith buildings, then science buildings, then usually for me culture, then production. I don't know the exact order, though, that's just a broad order from my experience.

docbud · Feb 27, 2016

Okay. Thanks, Chum and inthesomeday.

I knew some buildings got burned, but libraries get killed but not the unviversities?

Just seems weird it works that way.

Thanks again. I thought I was going crazy.

Have a good weekend.

Browd · Feb 27, 2016

And sometimes the universities burn, but not the libraries, and sometimes both burn, but granaries and workshops survive, etc. Pretty random, but the more buildings there are before conquest, the more will survive.

sixty4half · Feb 27, 2016

All culture buildings and a couple others will burn when a city is conquered. Yeah, stuff like this can happen since it's random.

docbud · Feb 28, 2016

That's good to know. I knew some buildings got razed, but I guess it just surprised me that the libraries got burned, and the universities still were being worked. I suppose that the library is only a prerequisite for universities and are not really needed after universities are up and running.

Callonia · Feb 28, 2016

docbud said:
That's good to know. I knew some buildings got razed, but I guess it just surprised me that the libraries got burned, and the universities still were being worked. I suppose that the library is only a prerequisite for universities and are not really needed after universities are up and running.

If you ever need gpt late game, sell off all your science buildings. I've done this once. :lol:

docbud · Feb 28, 2016

^^I don't think I'd be that brave or desperate. At least I hope not!

inthesomeday · Feb 28, 2016

docbud said:
That's good to know. I knew some buildings got razed, but I guess it just surprised me that the libraries got burned, and the universities still were being worked. I suppose that the library is only a prerequisite for universities and are not really needed after universities are up and running.

Actually, libraries with no universities provide a somewhat more substantial beaker increase than universities with no libraries. In a no-jungle, no academy, no-scientific wonder city with a population of 15, base beaker rate will be 15, and a university will add a 1/3 bonus, bringing it to 20. Meanwhile, a library will provide a +7.5 bonus, bringing it to 22.5. Depending on the circumstances, I'd recommend building a library once you annex if the puppet doesn't build one. Universities are only really worth anything if the city has a library already. If the above city is making 22.5 and it builds a university, it will be producing 30 beakers, clearly the optimal amount. The real benefit of the university is the two specialists, and some cities can't even afford to work those. Working both specialists, the 15 pop city would have a raw output of 21, bolstered to 28 with the university.

Chum · Feb 28, 2016

Callonia said:
If you ever need gpt late game, sell off all your science buildings. I've done this once.

Actually, it's not a bad idea for many things.

If you're like me, and use spies aggressively to coup after leveling up your spies in your capital, you might want a National Intelligence agency, but not want the drop off in theft (which keeps your spies getting leveled). You can sell off the constabularies after the police stations are built, and sell off the police stations after the NIA is built. This gets you the wonder you want, while keeping your spy killing rate high.

I will also frequently sell off my shrine if I've got a good FPT pantheon (such as Tears of the Gods or Desert Folklore or something). No point in paying 1gpt for 1fpt if you're rocking 30+ fpt from terrain.

docbud · Feb 28, 2016

Interesting ideas and thoughts, @inthesomeday and @Chum.

Whenever I annex, I always buy the library (as well as monuments).

Another question, as I don't really want to start a new thread.

Why is the AI so opposed to Natural Heritage Sites (I think that's the one--it's for 5 culture per natural wonder). Why are they always so opposed to it. I always thought it was a "safe" thing to push through the World Congress when you're not quite ready to push something through).

It seems it always (and I mean always) gets voted down and the AIs get mad that I even proposed it. What is wrong with i?

sixty4half · Feb 28, 2016

Any proposal that either hurts the AI or the AI doesn't get any benefit from, but another player/AI will, they will oppose. If none of them have natural wonders, and you do, they're not going to like it to much.

docbud · Feb 28, 2016

^^But I've recommended it without having a single natural wonder.

They get more ticked off with that resolution than they do with me trying to force my religion down their throat.

fyar · Feb 28, 2016

It doesn't matter whether you would benefit from it. It matters if they would. Those that have a natural wonder will vote for it, those that do not will vote against it. That simple.

And it sounds like you're surprised when they get mad at you about a proposal. If you mouse over the proposal as you're choosing it, you can see which AIs will be happy about that proposal and which ones will hate you for it. So you should never be surprised by it. They only become happy or angry with you on the turn that it's proposed. For example, if you propose World Ideology: Freedom and then Hiawatha adopts Order the next turn, he will not be angry with you for proposing it. (But he will still vote against it.)

Chum · Feb 28, 2016

fyar said:
And it sounds like you're surprised when they get mad at you about a proposal. If you mouse over the proposal as you're choosing it, you can see which AIs will be happy about that proposal and which ones will hate you for it. So you should never be surprised by it.

Natural wonders never has that dialogue box, it's impossible for you to see from the proposal screen whether a civ likes it or not.

fyar · Feb 29, 2016

Chum said:
Natural wonders never has that dialogue box, it's impossible for you to see from the proposal screen whether a civ likes it or not.

Is that true? I've never seen it. I assume that's a bug, but is there a reason why it wasn't included?

docbud · Feb 29, 2016

^^Like Chum said, it never has that dialogue box. For other proposals I always mouse over the proposals. But that never has it, nor I think does the ideology proposal (if you're the first to propose one).

Sclb · Feb 29, 2016

sixty4half said:
All culture buildings and a couple others will burn when a city is conquered. Yeah, stuff like this can happen since it's random.

Actually most culture buildings should stay intact. Monuments ALWAYS get destroyed, but museums etc should stay, unless you're unlucky.

beetle · Feb 29, 2016

Sclb said:
Actually most culture buildings should stay intact. Monuments ALWAYS get destroyed, but museums etc should stay, unless you're unlucky.

That is definitely the pattern. Is it documented anywhere? Any idea whey the developers decided that monuments should always be destroyed but that other culture building should have high survivability?

Also, Walls (etc.) and Barracks (etc.) will always be destroyed. Puppets like to build Walls (etc.), but they never build Barracks.

docbud said:
Why is the AI so opposed to Natural Heritage Sites ... gets voted down and the AIs get mad that I even proposed it.

FWIW, the AIs only rarely vote for it, but I have never experienced them complaining about my proposing it. Lifting embargoes also seem to be safe proposals.

docbud said:
They get more ticked off with that resolution than they do with me trying to force my religion down their throat.

That much I am sure is not correct! Proposing world religion has obvious and predictable effects on relations.

Chum said:
Natural wonders never has that dialogue box, it's impossible for you to see from the proposal screen whether a civ likes it or not.

Being inclined to vote for or against the proposal is different than the proposal getting you a red or green relationship modifier.

Puppets Have Universities But Build Libraries??

Emperor

King

Immortan

Emperor

Dilettante

Prince

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Immortan

King

Emperor

Prince

Emperor

Prince

King

Prince

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Similar threads