Ancient Civilizations (or people) of Europe

Currently trying to make a dynamic history package. I am shooting for a REALLY dynamic and organic history. Going as far as to remove most of civilization spawning after the start date (may go to 2000 BC). Trying to find ancient ethnic/civs/people has become difficult, but here is what I have gathered thus far:

Germanic (or nordics/Scandanavian people) People:

Spawn Dates - ?

Civs - (technically the Normans, Danish, and Swedish weren't "official" labels until later)

Location -



Celtic:

Spawn Dates - ?

Civs - Gaulic, Iberian?

Location - Central Europe?



Thats about it. Need some serious help.

I can't think of any European civilizations going back that far other than the Minoans, and whoever built the lake cities in Switzerland. You may get away with the Celts as well. If you go a few centuries further, you get the Myceneans and Etruscans.

It sounds like you're looking for peoples, and then you get the Celts, Germanic tribes, Balts, maybe the Iberians. The Thracians are mentioned in Homer, but I don't know how far back they go.

Afaik it is accepted that the first Greek civ was the Cycladic one, the Minoans came at least half a millenium later, and then there were the Myceneans. Cycladic art is routinely dated from 2000 BC and before (2500 BC also for some of the small statues).

Cycladic art ruled, btw

sydhe said:

I can't think of any European civilizations going back that far other than the Minoans, and whoever built the lake cities in Switzerland. You may get away with the Celts as well. If you go a few centuries further, you get the Myceneans and Etruscans.

It sounds like you're looking for peoples, and then you get the Celts, Germanic tribes, Balts, maybe the Iberians. The Thracians are mentioned in Homer, but I don't know how far back they go.

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Could you go a little more in depth on these people and when their absolute earliest appearance might be and where?

In terms of depth, I just mean..sub groups?

It is difficult to tell when some of these people appeared the first time. The Iberians for instance populated the iberian peninsula since nobody knows. Some say they arrived from somewhere around 4000-5000 BC but it is not sure. Indoeuropeans like celts, germanics and such arrived to central and western Europe later, around 1000 BC coming from Asia or Eastern Europe apparently and mixed with the poeple already living there. In any case Europe has always been populated since well... always. There are signs of fairly developed cultures and big settlements we could call cities as early as 7000 BC. It is all so complicated...

Looks like you are asking more about ethnic groups or languages rather than civilizations.

BTW - are you also interested in Anatolia / Asia Minor, or only Europe up to Bosphorus?

Here are some confirmed and hypothetical, major ethno-linguistic groups in Ancient Europe:

(Some of) Indo-European groups (incl. hypothetical ones):

Italic peoples
Celtic peoples
Ligurian peoples +
Hellenic peoples
Phrygian peoples +
Dacian peoples +
Thracian peoples +
Germanic peoples
Baltic peoples
Slavic peoples
Iranian peoples
Armenian peoples
Venedic peoples +
Illyrian peoples + (?)
Lusitanian peoples +
Sorothaptic peoples +

(Some of) Non-Indo-European groups with known names:

Phoenician peoples +
Iberian peoples +
Vasconic peoples
Tyrsenian peoples +
Pelasgian peoples +
Tartessian peoples +
Aquitanian peoples +
Turdetanian peoples +
Finnic peoples
Sicilian peoples +
Minoan peoples +
Kartvelian peoples
Caucasic peoples

Sign "+" placed after a group's name means that their languages, cultures, are extinct today.

In case of Illyrian languages some think that Albanian is descended from one of them (if true it means they aren't extinct), but others disagree.

Kyriakos said:

the first Greek civ was the Cycladic one, the Minoans came at least half a millenium later and then there were the Myceneans.

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The Minoans were not even Indo-European, so how could they be Hellenic or Greek? The Mycenaeans were the first Greek-speaking civilization.

Saying that the Minoans were Greek is like saying that the Byzantines were Turkish. The same area doesn't equal the same culture & language.

sydhe said:

If you go a few centuries further, you get the Myceneans and Etruscans.

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Etruscans were also Non-Indo-European. Etruscan is classified as one of Tyrsenian languages (see my probably incomplete list above).

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BTW - is the name of Pre-Celtic (Non-IE) inhabitants of Britain known or unknown?

I have on my mind that I have heard this name somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Maybe such a name survived in Insular Celtic mythology and legends?

It's ok Domen, keep it up Maybe you should not try to give your simple answers on any culture from 3000 BC to 2014. This time you chose to post about the Minoans. Next time who knows what it will be in your infinite wealth of historical knowledge of all people who ever lived.

I don't really need "infinite knowledge", it was enough to check wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_language

Minoan was not an Indo-European language and is not related to Hellenic.

So claiming that Minoan was a Greek civ is like claiming that Ptolemaic Kingdom was an Arab civ.

Maybe you should not try to give your simple answers on any culture

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If you say that Minoans were Greeks than I can say that Goths were Poles. It will be just as true as your statement.

Sure, you 'win', just drop it pls

Claiming that Minoans = Greeks is like claiming that Ancient Macedonians = Slavs (Makedonci).

I posted this because you added ' ' to the word win (otherwise I would have dropped it earlier).

Spawn Dates - ?

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Obviously all these peoples mentioned in this thread are much older than time when they were first mentioned in sources.

Ptolemy (90 AD - 168 AD) in his "Geography" mentioned such tribes as: Galindai (Galindae), Sudinoi (Sudini), Sali, Carvones (Carbones), Cariones, Careotae.

Some historians identify the first three with Medieval Baltic Galindians, Sudovians, Selonians and one of the last three with Medieval Baltic Curonians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galindians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudovian_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selonians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curonians

In total Ptolemy in his "Geography" listed 61 named tribes in the region he called "Sarmatia Europea" (I marked the "possibly Baltic" tribes with red dots):



And here are the boundaries of "European Sarmatia" (and of "Germania") according to the same source - Ptolemy's "Geography":