How to . . . Permanent Alliance.

Hatsheput is 'friendly' towards me (she has no red marks against me). We are both in a Defensive Pact, so neither of us is at war with anyone. If she was at war, then that would have been cancelled. I have both Fascism and Communism (she has Communism but I don't know if she has Fascism).

I want to know how I can get the option for a permanent alliance to appear. I go to the trade screen to ask her but the option isn't there. The only reason for this that I can imagine is that doesn't have Fascism but I'm not even sure that both are required for a Permanent Alliance to be possible.

Also, I 'undid' the Defensive Pact to see if the Permanent Alliance would then become available but it didn't.

Can anyone help me with this (we are top 2 civs and should easily dominate everyone if we unite.)

You need to start a custom game and click the option to enable permanent alliances on. In the standard game they are not enabled--I do not know why this is so.

because the developers didn't put much effort into the game setup, frankly.

in one game I must have clicked the wrong box and ended up with permanent peace, because I was never able to declare war even when I wanted to.

oh so you clicked the wrong box and its the game's fault eh.

Well no, but it could save your custom options from game to game. Having to click them again is time-consuming and sometimes results in mistakes

Even if you enable permanent alliances, they're incredibly difficult to actually get the AI to agree to. You have to have been in a defense pact or mutual war against a third party for 50-100 turns without a single break for the permanent alliance option to even be selectable (it'll be red until then). Staying in a war for that long isn't feasible, and getting your intended ally to stay in a defense pact for that long requires a lot of maintenance.

Actually I meant my 2 points separately, but Thalassicus is right -- I am very frustrated with "Play Now" not remembering my "default" setup. Civ3's Quick Start was great -- I will say in Firaxis's defense that IIRC that option did not arise until a later patch or expansion.

@Zurai That hasn't been my experience. I had excellent relations with Hatty one game (as Qin), and had for the entire game (+11 to 13). I was first in score and she was fourth of seven. I proposed a defensive pact, and five turns later she accepted the PA.

I also noted that if you and the AI are researching the same tech, your beakers are pooled.

Quick Start was in the standard game for SMAC though...the Civ and SMAC teams really should have coordinated more, we might have had all the features in Civ IV in Civ III (like civics options)

It already saves your map options (pangea, size, etc); all they have to do is add lines for your leader choice, difficulty, # of AI's, options etc when you bring up the custom game screen. Hopefully that'll be in a patch soon.

On topic though, permanent alliances aren't actually that hard to get. I think you can choose it if you've had a defensive pact for just 20 turns or so if your diplomatic relations are really great. It's a good way to win the game if you know you can't win on your own, and one of the AI's is far ahead & friendly with you.

I suppose it depends on which leaders you're trying to ally with. Most leaders are extremely reluctant. I would guess that the more pacifist leaders like Gandhi are more eager than, say, Tokugawa

It's hard enough to even get Tokugawa to trade with you, much less Open Borders or a defensive pact.

He always ends up behind on techs because of that. I feel sorry for him sometimes
..shortly before I wipe him out.