Current (SVN) development discussion thread

The Turks sometimes do that too, both in DoC and in
original RFC. It rarely results in them being conquered by the AI, though.
Yeah. I've forbidden the German AI from disbanding their units completely and they do much better now, maybe the game needs a general rule that stops the AI from disbanding units the first few turns after its spawn, so it can keep its starting units to defend itself against its neighbors (that's important for late starts). Maybe they'd even be completely exempted from unit upkeep costs for this period.

One more thought i checked the HRE/Prussia quickly, and i don't like the changes very much :( But i guess i just have bad luck in this case... Wien completely spoil the central Europe area and render it useless by my standards; nearest good cities are Reval and Kiev (instead of Danzig / Budapest) i will have to play some other civ like Russia, they have some space to build good cities ;)
I've noticed you like to build few super cities in Europe, I'm intentionally working to prevent that. Part of my problem with Germany in RFC vanilla is that its start encouraged this behavior.

Hopefully with the implementation of K-Mod we will see allot of these problems fixed (or created) what with AI England and whatnot finaly being able to wage war across the seas and run naval invasions. Considering the AI is the fundemental aspect of the game, I guess we can expect DoC to completely evolve by the time we have K-Mod intergrated, since there will be so many new variables created and smarter decisions at the AI's disposal. Infact, wouldn't it be wise to focus on implementing K-Mod first? I mean, won't all these changes your making to balance the AIs just be rendered obolete once they start acting smarter in general and causing different problems?
Maybe, maybe not, it's hard to say. Most current problems are not directly related to what K-Mod would fix, so I would have to deal with them either way.

Also, it's the largest pending change so I'd prefer to do it in the end.
 
I have noticed in recent versions of the SVN only, that when you now end your turn, units of other civs that have moved anywhere near your borders or units will be centred in the screen. You also watch them move.
I think this really slows the game down because ships moved by the AI, for example, move each tile individually so it takes a long time for them to finish moving. This gets very frustrating after a while.
It is fair enough if the unit is hostile and in your territory, but at the moment it happens for all units moving near your unit of territory, which can be very annoying for a civ surrounded by many other civs, such as France.
It would be great if there was a way to turn this feature off, but I cannot see anything about it in the advanced options so I think it is to do with the mod.
 
There's something like that too in Italy.
I played Japan until they spawn and it went fine.
As Italy, I can't even press the red button to end turn; it automatically end its turn...
I checked the Advanced Options and see it's still the same configuration as when I play Japan.
 
Super cities rules, i don't see the point in having city on every second or third tile... I guess it's kind of OK for early civs, but later you need big cities, big production, big research rate, big everything :) Anyway the only reason for trying build only great cities is obvious - more than 10 cities start slowing your research rate.

But i don't want to be just negative, i tried to play original RFC, and i have to say i was disappointed how slow the game is (especially later in modern age with lot of units/cities etc) - Dawn of Civ is much more faster - thanks for that, you did great job, nobody wants getting old waiting until the other civs finish they turn :)

BTW: I think somebody reported that already, but i just want to confirm the same issue. I tried the SVN version, and when Byzantine empire collapsed, it somehow remain alive with one or two units and with Constantinople and Athens. But i guess you already know about this...

PS: I reported i can't enter the space race screen or add parts to the space ship, but i tried original RFC and there it's not working either, even if it worked before, so i guess something is wrong on my side :(
 
I have noticed in recent versions of the SVN only, that when you now end your turn, units of other civs that have moved anywhere near your borders or units will be centred in the screen. You also watch them move.
I think this really slows the game down because ships moved by the AI, for example, move each tile individually so it takes a long time for them to finish moving. This gets very frustrating after a while.
It is fair enough if the unit is hostile and in your territory, but at the moment it happens for all units moving near your unit of territory, which can be very annoying for a civ surrounded by many other civs, such as France.
It would be great if there was a way to turn this feature off, but I cannot see anything about it in the advanced options so I think it is to do with the mod.
There's something like that too in Italy.
I played Japan until they spawn and it went fine.
As Italy, I can't even press the red button to end turn; it automatically end its turn...
I checked the Advanced Options and see it's still the same configuration as when I play Japan.
These are the "show enemy movements" and "wait at end of turn" options respectively, which are under your own control. The only thing that happens sometimes is when you switch to a respawned civ, these settings are reset. That's not shown in the checked boxes, though, so you have to check and uncheck them again (or vice versa).

But i don't want to be just negative, i tried to play original RFC, and i have to say i was disappointed how slow the game is (especially later in modern age with lot of units/cities etc) - Dawn of Civ is much more faster - thanks for that, you did great job, nobody wants getting old waiting until the other civs finish they turn :)
Most of that was edead's work in RFC Epic/Marathon, but good to know that it's still faster than vanilla RFC with all the new civs. I hope integrating K-Mod and moving stability to the DLL will bring further substantial speed gains.
 
These are the "show enemy movements" and "wait at end of turn" options respectively, which are under your own control. The only thing that happens sometimes is when you switch to a respawned civ, these settings are reset. That's not shown in the checked boxes, though, so you have to check and uncheck them again (or vice versa).
Or you can try a quick save and load.
 
Well, it doesn't reset, afaicr..

Btw,
Rather than Vibo Valentia,
I'd like to propose this city

Greek : Katantza'rion
Rome : Chatacium
Islam : Qatansáar (قَطَنْصَار)
Byzantine : Catanzaro
Viking : Cathacem
Italy : Catanzaro
 
Well, it doesn't reset, afaicr..

Btw,
Rather than Vibo Valentia,
I'd like to propose this city

Greek : Katantza'rion
Rome : Chatacium
Islam : Qatansáar (قَطَنْصَار)
Byzantine : Catanzaro
Viking : Cathacem
Italy : Catanzaro

Why?

I'm not fond of Vibo Valentia as well, but shouldn't we rather aim for Palermo/Messina, if anything?
 


Because Palermo/Messina is located in the island of Sicily while the Catanzaro/VV is on the southernmost tip of mainland Italy.

Another alternative to Catanzaro/VV is Reggio Calabria, but I don't fond of this one because it's too long and sounds more Rome (e.g : Mediolanum) to Italy (e.g : Milan)

Another alternative to Messina is Syracuse, where Thales invented the world's first Catapult.
 
Reggio is as un-Latin as it can get ;)
 
Pretty sure the German UHV is impossible on 600AD, or unlikely barring any strangeness (Like CoHS in Paris). My last game, I did everything possible to get friendly with justinian, thought I was doing really well, I had -9 for religion but +5 for civics and trading. I was just looking for Saladin to seal the deal. Then the religion penalty went to -12 for no reason! FUFUFUFUFU

Way I see it, the only way to win as it is would be to manage to build up a sizable enough force of siege and ?? (no unit to counter camels), to knock down Rome's defenses, build three galleys and two triremes in Venedig, declare on Byzzies, sail to the middeast and take on Saladins camel archers, all by 1200 is so hard, I'm not suprised I haven't seen a posted victory along these lines.

Ways to fix:

-start with engineering or make it cheaper. Landsnecht and trebs would definitely be a bonus.
-Fix byzzy diplomacy. Either auto war with saladin, or lessen justinian's religious bias
-Mercenary galleys. Imo, it'd be really cool to hire venetian galleys (galleys as strong as triremes) for the crusade. Still would prefer an overland route though.
 
Reggio is as un-Latin as it can get ;)

Now, after more extensive research,
I think Reggio is much important than Catanzaro...

1) Founded in 720BC by the Greek with the name Rhègion
2) Renamed to Reggio Giulia in Roman times
3) Rhègium, the metropolis of the Byzantine possessions in southern Italy
4) 700 AD became a Holy See
5) Conquered by the Muslim around 853AD under the name Rivàh
6) etc etc

Viking (Normans) : Risa
Spain : Regols
 
... and incidentally, Reggio is already in the Italian city name map.
 


Because Palermo/Messina is located in the island of Sicily while the Catanzaro/VV is on the southernmost tip of mainland Italy.

Another alternative to Catanzaro/VV is Reggio Calabria, but I don't fond of this one because it's too long and sounds more Rome (e.g : Mediolanum) to Italy (e.g : Milan)

Another alternative to Messina is Syracuse, where Thales invented the world's first Catapult.

I'm aware of all that :) I just meant that instead of discussing what the name of the city should be, on that spot, I'm suggesting to rather aim for one of the sicilian cities, to get Rome to build one of those instead. But since Carthage is up for some well-earned loving by Leoreth, maybe the whole setup in the area will get revisited at that time.
 
I'm sorry if I missed a note about it somewhere, but there is now a small minus in the end when you hover over the company tooltips in the city screen, -1G fx., is that an upkeep cost or something?

OH, Leoreth when did you change that NL no longer auto-destroys an already existing city at the Amsterdam spot, upon their spawn?? Just rolled a NL start, and all my starting units start inside Utrecht, which stays there? I never knew! Thank the Lords! And Leoreth and Rhye and everybody else who deserves to be thanked! Preplayed Netherlands here I come :D
 
In my Spanish game I'm getting cities with up to 30:gold: maintenance, perhaps it should be tweaked for Spain since they are supposed to have an enormous empire?


I'm sorry if I missed a note about it somewhere, but there is now a small minus in the end when you hover over the company tooltips in the city screen, -1G fx., is that an upkeep cost or something?

OH, Leoreth when did you change that NL no longer auto-destroys an already existing city at the Amsterdam spot, upon their spawn?? Just rolled a NL start, and all my starting units start inside Utrecht, which stays there? I never knew! Thank the Lords! And Leoreth and Rhye and everybody else who deserves to be thanked! Preplayed Netherlands here I come :D
Saw that happen to an AI
 
Yeah, I'm currently wondering whether it should be renamed or not. Unfortunately HRE isn't too interested in founding it.
 
New commit is up. It's been a while since the last one, but I haven't been idle in the meantime. This one featured an extensive overhaul of several wonders and the addition of some new ones. Due to many wonders lacking an appropriate tech requirement, I've added another tech, Patronage (this is a singular event!). It requires Music and Guilds and gives a free artist for the first civ that discovers it, instead of Music. Short summary of the wonder changes:

  • Khajuraho is now cheaper
  • Statue of Zeus now obsoletes with Theology instead of Divine Right
  • University of Sankore expires with Education now
  • Pantheon replaced with the Leaning Tower again, requires Patronage
  • La Mezquita now gives two free priests
  • Added the Versailles wonder, requires Patronage and Divine Right, starts a golden age
  • Completely removed the Great Bath
  • Sistine Chapel now requires Patronage
  • Added the Empire State Building wonder, requires Steel and Industrialism, +1 gold per population point
  • Added the Grand Canal wonder, requires Machinery, Calendar and a river, +2 commerce from river tiles for its city, expires with Replaceable Parts
  • Added the Floating Gardens wonder, requires Construction and Corn, +1 food from river tiles for its city, expires with Optics
  • Added the Trafalgar Square wonder, requires Astronomy, Chemistry and a level 3 naval unit, +5 XP and +50% construction speed for naval units, expires with Combustion
  • Old Borobudur effect removed, it now allows great prophets to create great works like great artists
  • Kremlin now requires Gunpowder and gives +2 espionage per state religion building
  • Westminster Palace now expires with Fiber Optics
  • Great Sphinx now gives unlimited artists to its city
  • Extra trade route yield removed from Porcelain Tower, replaced with +2 free merchants
  • Added the Lubyanka wonder, requires Communism, +2 espionage per specialist

Other changes:
  • Negative attitude modifiers between Orthodoxy and other Christians halved, Peter and Catherine also care less about religion
  • Thai changes: Ho Trai now gives +25% culture, Chang Suek has +50% against Riflemen
  • Resurrection changes: respawning civs shouldn't be that technologically advanced anymore
  • The Greek UP now expires after the Classical Era
  • Great Artists' great works now only provide 800 culture per era (ancient counts as 1 here)
  • To accomodate for this change, Japan's first UHV goal now only requires 20000 culture

For details refer to the history file.
 
In my opinion, Amsterdam should be encouraged to be conquered and settled by European powers. France, HRE, and Spain should contend for this territory. Because at the end of the day, any decisive war in Europe cripples the country that loses. This is because these countries start out with 3-4 cities and losing one or two is a huge lose. It's not like the rest of the world, where suppose im the Persians and I conquer an Ottoman city. Sure I have weakened the Ottomans but they'll survive and even recover. But when Im Europe, I have to think twice before expanding because I have to think to myself, do I really want to remove my competition and make the rest of the game blank and less interesting. I think there should be more wars where I am able to defeat HRE as France or Spain without putting them on the edge of collapse. Territories like Denmark, Netherlands, Venice, Rome and Napeles present that opportunity. Like in real life Europeans fought each other but rarely did they destroy each other.

And plus 1500 ad is a long time till the Dutch spawn, It would be good to get some action going there before that. Its not a bad investment even if you lose it after 1500. Also war of Dutch secession should be interesting.


P.S: The Protestant Reformation is screawing up Portugal and Netherlands, if they end up on the wrong side of the coin, they are sure to get conquered. I have seen Spain conquer Lisbon and the French conquer Amsterdamn numerous time. I think there should be some sort of counter to that because these countries are too small to defend themselves unlike the big guns.
 
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