New Leaders (art, personalities, diplomacy texts)

Which kinda forces you into a position where you have to cheat (Cleopatra... I'm sorry but no), throw in leaders that accomplished very little or may not have even existed (Hatshepsut, Jingu, Wu), or were at least married to someone that -was- extremely notable (Wu again.)
.

Umm... Hatshepsut most definitely existed and was easily one of the more important pharoahs of the New Kingdom. She deserves to be in Civ even she was male. Completely agree on Cleopatra though, I was appalled they chose her over Hattie in earlier versions of Civ.
 
Umm... Hatshepsut most definitely existed and was easily one of the more important pharoahs of the New Kingdom. She deserves to be in Civ even she was male. Completely agree on Cleopatra though, I was appalled they chose her over Hattie in earlier versions of Civ.

I know Hattie was real, but she really isn't that impressive of a leader. She wasn't a bad Egyptian leader, but she certainly doesn't deserve consideration over Ramesses II, Seti, Amenhotep I-IV, etc., etc. Thutmose III is even ahead of her. He was -much- more important than his mother.

However, I will concede that if you made a list consisting solely of peaceful builders (like say you have three leaders already and they're all aggressive expansionists, or most of your egyptians are expansionists like Ramses, Amenhotep I, Thutmose III), and that's -all- your criteria was, you'd have Hatshepsut in the top three. Again though, that's only if that was your entire critera, rather than just "important ancient Egyptian leaders."
 
^Pretty much agreed. Hatshepsut, in my opinion, doesn't even deserve to be in the top 3 to 5 to even 10 Egyptian leaders. In fact, if I had a choice, I'd take Thutmose III, since he is dubbed the "Napoleon" of Egypt. As for having "non-aggressive" leaders, I wouldn't have her in the top 3 - names like Khufu, Necho, Ptolemy I, Ramses III, Narmer, and so forth are way ahead of her for me. She was a pretty decent leader, I'll accept that, but certainly there were more interesting and famous personalities to choose from, too. The way I see it, Firaxis didn't want to keep with the Cleopatra = Egypt stereotype, so they basically they just were lazy and renamed Cleopatra to Hatshepsut.
 
^Pretty much agreed. Hatshepsut, in my opinion, doesn't even deserve to be in the top 3 to 5 to even 10 Egyptian leaders. In fact, if I had a choice, I'd take Thutmose III, since he is dubbed the "Napoleon" of Egypt. As for having "non-aggressive" leaders, I wouldn't have her in the top 3 - names like Khufu, Necho, Ptolemy I, Ramses III, Narmer, and so forth are way ahead of her for me. She was a pretty decent leader, I'll accept that, but certainly there were more interesting and famous personalities to choose from, too. The way I see it, Firaxis didn't want to keep with the Cleopatra = Egypt stereotype, so they basically they just were lazy and renamed Cleopatra to Hatshepsut.

Okay guys, enough of this crap. There is only ONE slot to even work with for Egypt, and I'm pretty much set on Seti I. So the discussion is over, if I hear another word about it Amenhotep III is back!!! :mad:

It just seems to me that, when we get somewhere close to constructive/finished with an issue, out of left-field there is some crazy (and often pointless) debate about X leader or X civ or X trait and it just seems to be a waste of time to me. You guys know I just changed Amenhotep III to Seti, and you know I don't want to change vanilla leaders, and yet here we are discussing if Hatshepsut (who has ZERO chance of being removed from this mod) should be removed from the mod.

Why?
 
It's just what happens on the forums. Things drift somewhere and goes into off-topic territory.
 
The Capo said:
So somebody can make a modmod who does, i guess? (and personally never understood what she does in game)
 
On a serious note, have we decided on who Theodora will become?

Theodora will be Theodora if she makes it in. I have no interest in searching out new leaders anymore, it is easily the most time consuming and memory consuming, part of this mod and I'd like to stop picking at it for now. What I want to do is finalize our traits and our civics and then get them implemented at this point. If we want to go back and second-guess ourselves that is fine, but for now I just want to get the new traits and stuff in.
 
On a serious note, have we decided on who Theodora will become?

You didn't see these posts or what? :confused:

I understand, but the mod is also there to be fun. A lot of people like Theodora and she was in CivIII. I know she was Justinian's wife, but I think her allure, history in the game, and the great work Ekmek will provide us with (as well as our discussion about her traits and all of that), will all pretty much explain it. Sure she ruled with Justinian, and yeah he was definitely more important than her I just think it would be cool.

But again, we'll see, because I can't wait around for Ekmek forever.

Generally I agree with you TAdF, but for some female leaders we can overlook that because of their popularity. Not always, just where the leaders were significant enough
That's exactly the case for Theodora and Wu
They are well known, popular, Theodora were a vanilla leader in Civ III, Wu will be in Civ V, that's more than enough in my eyes.
So Capo, if you add them it will be a good advertisement for you mod. Also, most players like to see as much good female leaders ingame as possible. And because Ekmek making both those two, this is a guarantee for that...

Btw, we can and should make Theodora and Justinian distinct enough to have very different experience for the player. Both when playing against and when playing with them.
They were married and co-ruled, yes, but this doesn't mean they agreed to rule the same way all the time. Their personality was very different, and fortunately we can easily represent this in the game


EDIT: didn't see Capo's post, but it seems we mostly agree on this one :goodjob:
 
Okay guys, enough of this crap. There is only ONE slot to even work with for Egypt, and I'm pretty much set on Seti I. So the discussion is over, if I hear another word about it Amenhotep III is back!!! :mad:

It just seems to me that, when we get somewhere close to constructive/finished with an issue, out of left-field there is some crazy (and often pointless) debate about X leader or X civ or X trait and it just seems to be a waste of time to me. You guys know I just changed Amenhotep III to Seti, and you know I don't want to change vanilla leaders, and yet here we are discussing if Hatshepsut (who has ZERO chance of being removed from this mod) should be removed from the mod.

Why?

It wasn't really a suggestion to remove Hatshepsut (I was merely comparing her to other leaders that are popping up in mods), nor was it out of left field. I've been attacking Jingu and Cixi for awhile (and Wu since Civ5 decided she was more deserving than Taizong.) Jingu especially is known for only one thing which more than likely never happend, meaning she didn't really do anything as far as we know, which puts her -way- below "Leader Only Known For Bad Things" and "Leader Not Known For That Much".
 
Pull a little bit of leaderhead magic and have Justinian and Theodora like the Trung sisters.
 
Well, Ekmek is making her. We'll see what he comes up with and if she looks "compatible" with Justinian I can ask him if he'd like to try it out.
 
You have my vote
 
Just a quick question, you think you could post those traits you made? I might think of using some of them myself too.

And btw, US stands no chance agains Spain in this World Cup :goodjob:
 
Just a quick question, you think you could post those traits you made? I might think of using some of them myself too.

And btw, US stands no chance agains Spain in this World Cup :goodjob:

Sure, I can post them but they aren't finished yet. There are still some missing features for them right now, so I'll just post them when they are totally complete.

And you're right, the US doesn't stand a chance against Spain... then again neither did Switzerland... ;)
 
Hey Capo!
You should replace Kim Jond Il's diplo text, you still use the Team America version
There is a much better one (also by MadmanOfALeader)

I rewrote it in your format, so you can just copy it over in the xml file:
Spoiler :
<!-- ##### DIPLOMACY - New Leader Kim Jong-il - BEGIN ##### -->
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_FIRST_CONTACT_LEADER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Greetings, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME], Eternal President and Glorious Leader of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. What would the [CT_EMPIRE] like to do for the great and mighty nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]?</English>
<French>Greetings, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME], Eternal President and Glorious Leader of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. What would the [CT_EMPIRE] like to do for the great and mighty nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]?</French>
<German>Greetings, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME], Eternal President and Glorious Leader of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. What would the [CT_EMPIRE] like to do for the great and mighty nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]?</German>
<Italian>Greetings, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME], Eternal President and Glorious Leader of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. What would the [CT_EMPIRE] like to do for the great and mighty nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]?</Italian>
<Spanish>Greetings, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME], Eternal President and Glorious Leader of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. What would the [CT_EMPIRE] like to do for the great and mighty nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT]?</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_REFUSE_TO_TALK_LEADER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Sorry, don't interrupt me! Not during yet another impromptu parade in my honor!</English>
<French>Sorry, don't interrupt me! Not during yet another impromptu parade in my honor!</French>
<German>Sorry, don't interrupt me! Not during yet another impromptu parade in my honor!</German>
<Italian>Sorry, don't interrupt me! Not during yet another impromptu parade in my honor!</Italian>
<Spanish>Sorry, don't interrupt me! Not during yet another impromptu parade in my honor!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_NO_PEACE_LEADER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>You can starve to death for all I care! I'm still going to blow your country into smithereens!</English>
<French>You can starve to death for all I care! I'm still going to blow your country into smithereens!</French>
<German>You can starve to death for all I care! I'm still going to blow your country into smithereens!</German>
<Italian>You can starve to death for all I care! I'm still going to blow your country into smithereens!</Italian>
<Spanish>You can starve to death for all I care! I'm still going to blow your country into smithereens!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_GREETINGS_ATT_FR_LEADER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Welcome to back to [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. [CT_NAME]! Would you like to hear the new opera I wrote? I kidnapped some actors just for this occasion!</English>
<French>Welcome to back to [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. [CT_NAME]! Would you like to hear the new opera I wrote? I kidnapped some actors just for this occasion!</French>
<German>Welcome to back to [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. [CT_NAME]! Would you like to hear the new opera I wrote? I kidnapped some actors just for this occasion!</German>
<Italian>Welcome to back to [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. [CT_NAME]! Would you like to hear the new opera I wrote? I kidnapped some actors just for this occasion!</Italian>
<Spanish>Welcome to back to [OUR_CIV_SHORT]. [CT_NAME]! Would you like to hear the new opera I wrote? I kidnapped some actors just for this occasion!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_GREETINGS_ATT_FUR_LEADER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Welcome back, [CT_NAME], miserable excuse for a leader who is lower than a dog. Guess where all my missiles are pointed at!</English>
<French>Welcome back, [CT_NAME], miserable excuse for a leader who is lower than a dog. Guess where all my missiles are pointed at!</French>
<German>Welcome back, [CT_NAME], miserable excuse for a leader who is lower than a dog. Guess where all my missiles are pointed at!</German>
<Italian>Welcome back, [CT_NAME], miserable excuse for a leader who is lower than a dog. Guess where all my missiles are pointed at!</Italian>
<Spanish>Welcome back, [CT_NAME], miserable excuse for a leader who is lower than a dog. Guess where all my missiles are pointed at!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_WEAKER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Give me this, or else I will be very, very angry with you... and I will write you a letter, telling you how angry I am!</English>
<French>Give me this, or else I will be very, very angry with you... and I will write you a letter, telling you how angry I am!</French>
<German>Give me this, or else I will be very, very angry with you... and I will write you a letter, telling you how angry I am!</German>
<Italian>Give me this, or else I will be very, very angry with you... and I will write you a letter, telling you how angry I am!</Italian>
<Spanish>Give me this, or else I will be very, very angry with you... and I will write you a letter, telling you how angry I am!</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_EQUAL_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>Give me what I want and maybe... just maybe... I'll tell you about my nuclear program...</English>
<French>Give me what I want and maybe... just maybe... I'll tell you about my nuclear program...</French>
<German>Give me what I want and maybe... just maybe... I'll tell you about my nuclear program...</German>
<Italian>Give me what I want and maybe... just maybe... I'll tell you about my nuclear program...</Italian>
<Spanish>Give me what I want and maybe... just maybe... I'll tell you about my nuclear program...</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<TEXT>
<Tag>AI_DIPLO_DEMAND_TRIBUTE_POWER_STRONGER_KIM_1</Tag>
<English>If you knew what happens to people who don't attend my parades, you wouldn't deny me this.</English>
<French>If you knew what happens to people who don't attend my parades, you wouldn't deny me this.</French>
<German>If you knew what happens to people who don't attend my parades, you wouldn't deny me this.</German>
<Italian>If you knew what happens to people who don't attend my parades, you wouldn't deny me this.</Italian>
<Spanish>If you knew what happens to people who don't attend my parades, you wouldn't deny me this.</Spanish>
</TEXT>
<!-- ##### DIPLOMACY - New Leader Kim Jong-il - END ##### -->




EDIT: Also, the Meiji DiploTexts are horrible. These really fit a Japanese Emperor????
Spoiler :
First Contact:
"The glorious, modern nation of [OUR_CIV_SHORT] welcomes you, [CT_NAME]! Here, have a pussycat doll! It's the least I can do."

Refuse to Talk:
"Go away! No pussycat doll for you!"

No Peace:
"I think it's too fun watching your soldiers getting struck by our shiny weapons to declare peace."

Friendly Greeting:
"[CT_NAME]! Let's sing karaoke and drink lizard-infused sake until morning comes by!"

Annoyed Greeting:
"Well, look who's still stuck in feudal times! What can I do for your backwards nation?"

Demand Tribute Weaker:
"[CT_NAME]! Give us some money so we may produce more pussycat dolls to sell to the world. I'll even send you the new edition just for your troubles."

Demand Tribute Equal:
"[OUR_CIV_SHORT] may not be able to build a shapeshifting mechanical supersoldier yet, but I can still leave more than a few bruises on you if you don't pay me tribute."

Demand Tribute Stronger:
"I will personally strike you with our shiniest, most fuel-efficient vehicle if you don't pay me what's due, [CT_NAME]."
 
I love the Japanese Emperor part. Extreamly hilarous. Someone should create a mod where they replace all the text from game with such hilarous nonsense :lol:
 
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