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[G&K] Religion: How Does the Religion System Work? (G&K)

Browd

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Religion: How Does the Religion System Work? - Religion: How Does the Religion System Work?

Religion
How Does the Religion System Work?


"Just as a candle cannot burn without fire,
men cannot live without a spiritual life”
- Buddha​


Introduction
Your Religion screen
Religion is one of the signature elements of the Gods & Kings expansion, adding new game mechanics and strategic...

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is there any reason why one would de-prioritize religion or even forgo it outright?

Saving maintenance on Faith buildings, building an extra couple of troops to knock out an early neighbor, and letting an AI do all the work of founding a spreading a religion to you all spring to mind.
 
Pantheons will not spread to other civilizations or City States.
I took desert folklore and found religion. Than I spreaded my religion to city of other nation and its city start to collect faith from desert tiles! So maybe pantheons spread to other civilization? Here hot-seat save before religion changing:
http://rghost.ru/43205237
 
That's because when you found a religion the pantheon belief is part of that religion. When it's just a Pantheon (i.e. you have the lightning bolt symbol on your city banners) it will only spread to your cities and not outside of your territory
 
Fantastic guide, Browd. Think it's time for you to adopt a religious avatar ;).

I do have a question though, maybe you now:

by default, each city exerts 6 pressure on cities located within 10 tiles

Once pressure reaches certain levels, a citizen of a neighboring city will convert to that religion

Exactly how many pressure points are needed for one citizen to be converted?

Thanks.
 
Thanks!

On pressure, the mechanics are a bit obscure to me. As a general proposition, it appears that 100 accumulated pressure is required to convert a citizen, but it seems to be more complex than that, with some "thumb on the scale" benefits for incumbent religions (including atheism, which can be a majority religion). Some folks over in the mods forums were poking around, but their exploration shed little light on the subject for me (as a non-coder type): http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=481624
 
I am pretty sure pressure is applied as long as 1 full citizen of the religion is present. I don't think you need to have majority to spread religion at all.

If you go into a game and pay very close attention, cities exert pressure with 1 convert but no majority, and they exert pressure of multiple religions as long as multiple are present in the city.

Because the game doesn't show you pressure applied until there are already converts, I can't tell if pressure is applied before a full conversion of any citizens, but I doubt it.
 
Are you referring to the pressures you observe when you mouse-hover a city banner? E.g., in a given city with, say, 10 pop, you might see 5 followers of Christianity at 36 pressure, 2 followers of Buddhism at 18 pressure and 1 follower of Shinto at 12 pressure?
 
Yes, but you can have multiple cities all with no majority but all with converted citizens. And they must be getting the pressure from somewhere...and they aren't within reach of the capital.

But on the other hand I am sure the capital stays at only the pressure on itself until other cities have majorities, so maybe you're right. Hmm.
 
Minority followers of a religion do not broadcast pressure to other cities--they do receive/experience pressure from other cities.

Easiest case is when you are first, and extremely early, to found a religion (say, you're Ethiopia AND you popped a big faith ruin), and you've founded a couple of cities within 10 tiles of your capital, plus a couple of CSs are also in range.. Clearly the only source of pressure on the map will be your capital, experiencing 30 internal holy city pressure and broadcasting 6 pressure to your two other cities and the two CSs.

Initially, nothing shows up when you mouse-hover the various cities -- your 2 cities show your old pantheon and the CSs show nothing.

Roll forward X turns (still no one else has founded a religion) and you find that you have one follower in each of the CSs, each receiving 6 pressure (from your capital). In your two cities, one city (with 4 pop) shows 2 pantheon followers and 1 religion follower (receiving 6 pressure) and your other city (3 pop) shows 1 pantheon follower and 1 religion follower (6 pressure) and no longer shows the pantheon lightening bolt (neither your religion nor your pantheon is majority anymore). Importantly, your capital still just shows 30 internal pressure -- none of those minority followers in the CSs or your other cities is exerting any pressure on your capital. Minority followers in a city do not broadcast any pressure.

Roll forward Y turns, and you find that your two cities are now majority your religion (5 pop, with 3 followers, and 4 pop, with 2 followers). Because each of those cities is within 10 tiles of each other and the capital, each of those cities shows 12 pressure (6 from your capital and 6 from the other) and your capital is showing 42 pressure (30 internal holy city pressure and 12 pressure from your other 2 cities). When you look at the CSs, one of them (6 pop) is in range of all 3 of your cities, so it shows 18 pressure, but still only has 2 followers, so no majority religion. The other CS (also 6 pop) is only in range of your capital, so it still shows just 6 pressure and only has one follower.

Your nearest neighbor now founds his religion. His capital is not in range of any of your cities, but he is in range of the second CS (the one with 6 pressure and 1 follower). When he founds, you won't see any change in pressure at that CS, since it hasn't caused any conversions yet. To get a leg up, you send a missionary to that CS, convert 4 followers, and your religion is now in the majority, but still only shows 6 pressure (since only your capital is in range). If you look back at your capital, it will show 48 pressure - 30 internal holy city pressure plus 6 pressure each from your other 2 cities and 6 pressure from this newly converted CS.

Roll forward Z turns, and you see that CS (now 7 pop) still has 4 followers of your religion (still 6 pressure), but the other guy's religion now has 1 follower with 12 pressure! What gives? Obviously, he has 2 majority-religion cities in range of that CS -- his holy city and some other random city, maybe somewhere in the fog (causing you to mutter to yourself, "I gotta do a better job scouting").

Anyway, what's the point of this elaborate example? Focus on the interplay of that CS and your capital. If that lonely, minority follower of the other guy's religion could exert pressure on your capital, you would expect (if enough turns passed) that one follower would eventually show up in your capital with (presumably) 6 pressure. But no. It doesn't matter how many turns go by; as long as your religion is majority in a given city, including that specific CS, the only pressure that city (or CS) will broadcast is the pressure from your religion.
 
That was a great write up. However I remain unconvinced that religion, apart from minor bonuses, allows you to win more easily, esp compared to adopting someone else's or even ignoring it. I can and have seen short-term bonuses (like the extra units holy warriors can provide) but not sure about longterm benefits apart from generating faith for Great Persons. That was what I meant by diminishing returns. I think it's a great addition to the game but I believe its opportunity cost/benefits are not that great.
 
If you rack up faith, for example, and have enough for 4 great scientists, you can bulb them all 8 turns after Research Labs and you'll get to the spaceship parts in no time. This doesn't really have to do with religion however, but with good bonuses you can whip up some extra wonders, or take down your neighbor faster.

Or you can end up with a cray amount of gold and can buy entire armies in the span of a couple of turns.
 
That was why I mentioned the advantage of buying GP with faith. It seems that gold or science or culture bonuses will not ever amount to much mid-late game considering the expenses of missionaries, inquisitors and prophets. If late game GPs are the goal, simply use faith to build more faith.
 
Doable, but with your own religion you can pick the beliefs that would help your goal better. Of course, there is the option of waiting for the AI's religion to drop (capture prophets from different religions so as to maximize on needed aspects), but it would be a game of chance then.

Get Tithe and spread it to everyone. Insane amounts of Gold. Someone else's Tithe won't do the job.

In regards to spreading your religion: in my last game I had a dominant religion, without me giving a damn about it. Itinerant Preachers did all the work for me. Nothing bought with faith except for one wrongly used missionary and 3 Great Scientists (I think there was also a fourth one just for kicks at some point).

Yes, you are right in one aspect: you don't really need a religion to get certain things. But one that id developed right, can help you get extra benefits, and more faith.
 
How important is religion to a G&K game? I don't have G&K at the moment and am considering getting it, but it's expensive and I'm not sure how much new content the religion system adds. It seems like an interesting strategic element, but I'm not sure how much of one it is.

P.S. Half the enjoyment for me would come from something along the lines of the Vikings founding Buddhism as in the screenshot above.
 
Religion adds richness to the game -- more choices, more ways to gain small advantages that are tailored to your desired strategy.

G&K also offers a lot more than religion, including revamped combat mechanics (100 HP scale vs. 10 HP, new units, new naval warfare mechanics) and espionage (which some decry and others love, and it is a game option than can be toggled on and off, like barbarians, ancient ruins, etc.).

I would recommend getting it as part of the CiV "Gold" package that is soon to be released. I believe that will include G&K and all of the DLCs and should be reasonably priced.
 
I, as usual, agree with Browd. The advantages of religion is in the cool choices and adding richness but one should not overestimate its minor bonuses. G&K is an incredible expansion even apart from religion.
 
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