How to level up your mages?

I'm wondering.. how you guys upgrade your mages (to get archmages) ?

As for me, it's troublesome. If the leader chosen is without "arcane trait", it takes too long to sit and wait till they get enough XP points to be archmages. To drive them to combat, it's risky.

Any help?

and..
just curious..
If a mage defeats some enemy unit using its spell like Fireball, does it get a XP point? or does it have to get through melee combat like the other units?

mathkim said:

I'm wondering.. how you guys upgrade your mages (to get archmages) ?

As for me, it's troublesome. If the leader chosen is without "arcane trait", it takes too long to sit and wait till they get enough XP points to be archmages. To drive them to combat, it's risky.

Any help?

and..
just curious..
If a mage defeats some enemy unit using its spell like Fireball, does it get a XP point? or does it have to get through melee combat like the other units?

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It is pretty tough unless you have the Arcane trait.

I don't think you gain XP for your adept/mage/archmage when one of the summons kills something.

What I do is build a good number of Adepts and try to use them as much as possible against the barb goblins and warriors. After that, combat is risky with other barb units even if the adepts have combat 5.

I try to gain as much xp as possible for them and then not use promotions. They should be able to get to the needed level for mage for sure, and, depending on the number of barbs they kill, likely enough xp for archmage. I think they also get a free promotion to mage, so that helps too.

I forgot which forum I read this about, and this is quite off-topic but you could make mages gain more promotions by possessing extra manas of the same kind. For example, if you have 2 water manas at the time unit with channeling I, namely mage, was produced, then the said unit would gain water I promotion from 1 excess water mana; however, even if you have 3 or more water manas, unit with channeling I could only receive tier I promotions, and channeling II units would be limited to tier II. But the trick is, this bonus also applies when upgrading a unit.

Also, there are religious heroes and disciple units available for their designed usages (I think they are not so flexible compared to mages, but still powerful enough), and Esus and Octopus offers you hero with all channeling I ~ III promotions i.e. archmage that levels up quite quickly.

mathkim said:

If a mage defeats some enemy unit using its spell like Fireball, does it get a XP point? or does it have to get through melee combat like the other units?

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Nope, it has to fight in combat as well to get the XP point.

Like Sarisin, I personally find the easiest way is just to XP farm off of Barbs. I like using Mage Spells to soften them up. E.g. fling a Fireball or two/use a summon. Of course, this isn't full proof because sometimes your summon actually suceeds, or you have 95% odds and lose and etc. If you are Ashen Veil or Octopus Overlords, you also have the Priest spells as well for doing some damage to opponents to soften them up.

There are a couple ways to get XP for your mage units. The easiest is simply to build Adepts early and often. Use them against barbs, but try not to let them die... it's usually better to suicide a Scout and make it a sure thing than hope your Adept can win at 60%. Even without XP farming, if you built enough Adepts and didn't let all of them die off right away, by the time Archmages are available you should have some with enough levels.

Otherwise, there are some Wonders and Civics that grant free XP. Combine the Combat civic with Apprenticeship, and you have four free XP. Both of those are easy to research. Getting Theocracy and the XP Wonders are generally a little harder to get to, and require more time.

Neither of those options is the "quick fix" you're looking for, but really, that's the point. Getting an Archmage isn't supposed to be easy. That's the whole point of the Amurites - they are able to get their magic units from Adept to Archmage in a rermarkably short time. The Potent promotion and the Cave of Ancestors, combined with the aforementioned Civics, generally allow for a new Adept to start with enough XP to become a Mage, and get to Archmage status in a couple dozen turns. (That is, they allow for it when handled correctly - you'll want a lot of mana).


Of course, and this is a bit off-topic, it can be argued that Archmages aren't worth the effort. The spells they offer are pretty good, but you'll find that some of the best ones are actually at Mage-level or even Adept-level. The terraforming spells are for Adepts-only; so is Courage and Raise Skeleton. Regeneration is for Mages, so are Fireball and Blinding Light. Most of the Archmage spells are summons. Don't get me wrong, summons are very nice to have - but it's much easier to get Iron-using Champions than Air Elementals, and your Champions can keep the promotions they gain. This is an oversimplification, but the point is that getting high level magic users can be more risky than the reward is worth.

I have to agree with the comment on Archmages, but for a different reason.

You can add this to my complaint about the new crazed/enraged system.

In my game at AC 90 two of my three Archmages got Enraged and promptly ran away to get killed by barb Bears!

All that XP and those promotions tenderly cultivated gone thanks to a Smokey.

Bah!

You could try Gibbon Goethia, or however his name is spelled. Go Law for Valour, then some strong summon. Einherjar could tide you over until then.

Death provides both summon and Lichdom, so you can change religion.

Extra experience from combat and easy combats since illusions leave them weakened.


But is there anything a few archmages can do that can't be substituted by a single hero archmage, a horde of mages and Druids?

Not that's cheaper to get, it's just less micromanagement.

Keep your adepts around your fighting warriors, kill surviving units. Keep adepts in your city attacking stacks, kill low hp units after use of siege weapon or sacrificial units. Etc.

Going from Mages to Archmages usually take so long time (tech wise) you have to have at least some mages that are close to lvl 6 by then.

If you can afford the maintenance build them asap after getting KoTE, go straight up the combat/extension lines, the new system that gives out spells for free at each upgrade means they don't need to worry about nodes you don't have yet but will have by the time they're ready to become mages/archmages. It also allows for strategic use of meta magic! Giving them one set of spells when upgrading from adept to mages then wipe the nodes and redo them all for a second set of spells. I find this method particularly useful for my game play where I get mind/spirit first to build city improvement mages then wipe them and build war mages based on my chosen line of destruction (usually ends up Air & Death, for the liches).

I hadn't thought about Lichdom as a way to keep religious archmages when you change religions. Thanks for the tip!
Also, doesn't the AC90 event only affect living units? In that case I guess it also saves them from craziness.

Jules.lt said:

I hadn't thought about Lichdom as a way to keep religious archmages when you change religions. Thanks for the tip!
Also, doesn't the AC90 event only affect living units? In that case I guess it also saves them from craziness.

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That is correct. It was a good game to be playing the Sheaim where a lot of my non-living creatures were unaffected. However, the game seems to make up for it by giving Enraged to just about every living unit you have. For example, every one of my Moebius Witches and Revelers got Enraged. Not a problem with the Revelers as they had not many promotions and could be easily replaced through the Planar Gates. However, some of the Witches I had were high-XP that I was saving for Eaters of Dreams. There chances of winning a combat to lose Enraged were not good, aside from the fact there were no targets in the game, so they just kept wandering around.

Thank you!

For Amurites it is also a way of keeping High Priests when you change religions. Well, anyone that manages to give High Priests Death III.

Attaching a Great Commander can be a big help. Ups your stats and gains extra EPs.

You don't get XP when your summons kill an enemy, but if the enemy survives, it may be weak enough for your Adept to kill it. Death 1 is a pretty solid promotion if you have access to the mana, and the summons can both protect your Adepts and help them get XP. AFAIR, that's the only level 1 spell that provides a summon.

I have long pushed for Force 1 to be Magic Missile, which would provide a sole direct-damage spell for Adepts. Even if it wasn't much and had a low cap, it could still be very attractive given the lack of real combat spells at level 1.

Also, FYI, the latest patch blocks World Units (e.g. Hemah) from becoming Liches, preventing players form turning them into Liches before changing religion.

One thing I've often wondered is why some summons can be used on the same turn they are summoned (ex. fireball) while others (ex. Tiger) cannot be used until the next turn?

Anyway, your suggestion is a good one for gaining XP for a Mage that can summon, use the summon, and attack on the same turn.

Sarisin said:

One thing I've often wondered is why some summons can be used on the same turn they are summoned (ex. fireball) while others (ex. Tiger) cannot be used until the next turn?

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Permanent summons have to wait a turn. Temporary summons (that is ones with a duration) can attack on the turn they are summoned.

If they couldn't, they'd be kind of useless now wouldn't they?

How do you "wipe" the nodes??

I have a Noble Terra game I'm playing as Calabim that I'm eventually going to win (Yah! first win on FFH2) and I noticed that somehow one of my nodes got pillaged by a wolf rider or something . . . Couldn't see any way to rebuild it as anything other than death node though.

you need the lvl2 metamagic spell, "Dispel" .

Kewl . . . thanks [to xp]Gekko