[Religion and Revolution]: Sorry, but I leave ...

I truly second the words from AbsintheRed - It would be really a pitty, if RaR (development forum) leaves this place.

Well of course, it is the team's decision.

I just like you to remember, that there will no other place with similar quantity of CivPlayers, or am I wrong?

It's a noble point of you, Ray, that you are advocating for propper usage and copyright terms, and I fully agree that this is important.

AbsintheRed said:

If you host the files in infracta, which is a separate forum with different rules, why couldn't you protect your rights?
You simply state clearly in the download post in CFC, that there is only a link here to the mod in infracta, you can reach the mod there, but all the copyright and other issues with it are handled within infracta's own forum rules.
(text formatting by myself, Willi_Tell)

Click to expand...

IMHO this would be a fine solution...

Willi_Tell said:

It's a noble point of you, Ray, that you are advocating for propper usage and copyright terms, and I fully agree that this is important.

Click to expand...

This has little to nothing to do with being noble.
It is mostly about my own interest.

I simply have a problem if these points are being questioned or even denied:

1) Modders do have some basic rights about their work and may specify reasonable terms of usage / permissions for their work.
(It is not about making money, this is about respect for the work of us modders.)

2) Copyrighted work that generous people have given rights of usage to mods may not simply be taken from that mod without asking the owner of the Copyright.
(Otherwise the modders - including myself - might get into problems with those generous people or not be given rights of usage anymore.)

And you are correct:
We have never uploaded our mod directly on this server.
Our mod download was recently hosted at infracta.
But even this was boldly ignored in the discussion.

But ok, I think it has been discussed enough.
Let us see what happens.

Edit:
Discussing this topic here, does probably not help a lot.
It might be a good idea to tell your opinion in this thread.

raystuttgart said:

@team:

Should we move our discussion forum to infracta ?
They are a great forum and have been very friendly to us already.

Click to expand...

Well. Shouldn't we wait and see? I mean Civfanatics modders and administrators have been very friendly towards us . This is a fantastic forum.
I would rather not leave civfanatics. However Infracta's proposal is quite friendly...
I would rather wait until someone kicks us out.
Of course If actual Modiquette is modified the way they want it to be, then we're are more or less being kicked out.
So If (or when?) the new rules apply we can simply leave.
Anyway, I do agree with you, the conversation doesn't seem to go the good way...

Robert Surcouf said:

I would rather wait until someone kicks us out.

Click to expand...

Ok, let us wait a few more days to see how this ends.
Maybe it will be possible that we can still publish our Release 1.3 here.

hi i would like to know how your progress with the discussions is going. it would be a waste for this work to never see the light of day it so clearly deserves and the respect for the time that has clearly been spent on it.

P.S. i did read the thread you linked but don't have a sense of where it is going

Black Wind said:

hi i would like to know how your progress with the discussions is going.

Click to expand...

Hi Black Wind,

the discussion about "Modders' rights" seems to be dead (at the moment).
But our biggest problem from the original discussion ("3rd party rights not being respected") seems to be clarified.

Black Wind said:

it would be a waste for this work to never see the light of day it so clearly deserves and the respect for the time that has clearly been spent on it.

Click to expand...

Don't worry, we already decided, that we will publish Release 1.3 within the next week.
We are just doing some final testing and finetuning at the moment.

hi thanks for the reply glad to hear they have clarified it would hate to see more attacks on modding after what company's have starting doing by trying to wipe out modding on there games (at least the new ones).

glad to hear that it will come out soon looking forward to see all your handwork, sweet and blood pay off.

I'm guessing the 1.3 is the final version then? No 1.4 ever?

This thread was connected to some modding policy discussions on the site
The problems with that were more or less solved since, so the thread isn't really relevant anymore

Nevertheless, raystuttgart is taking a break from modding
So things got considerably slower for RR
I'm not part of the team, one of the members could answer in what form is the development continued

Correct, raystuttgart is currently taking a break from CivCol Modding.

The remaining team also has stopped modding for now, since we are currently all very busy in real life.

It is currently not foreseeable when we will continue our work, what features could/will be the next we will work on or if and when we will release a new version. Though I'm sure that a version 1.4 is far, far away.

Good to see the mod back at hand at least.

shame
Though this may actually allow me to finish a game at least once now

Crazy_Ivan80 said:

shame
Though this may actually allow me to finish a game at least once now

Click to expand...

Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm trying to play a little too(instead of just testing)
But I'm also busy right now. So, yes things might go quite slower in the next few days/weeks. But we will try to release a version 1.4 if we can

Hmmm. I'm not really sure what happened. Was there something wrong with R&R? You guys did one hell of a job with it, and then suddenly it all stopped?
raystuttgart stopped modding, but not anymore?

A big thanks to the team for all of your hard work.

Pallando said:

Was there something wrong with R&R ?

Click to expand...

There was nothing "wrong" with R&R, don't worry.
There was no arguing or personal problems within the team at all.
Also the mod is quite stable and a lot of people told us that they like to play it.

Pallando said:

You guys did one hell of a job with it, and then suddenly it all stopped ?

Click to expand...

The project did not "stop".
Some team members said that they want to continue the project.

------------
My reasons to retire from this project:

* I did not feel as a "real modder" anymore.
I was more of a project manager, bug fixer, problem solver, tester, advisor ...
Whenever I wanted to create a cool new feature something came in between and nobody else was there to take care of it.

* In the end we were a very tiny team of only 3 people that were still (more or less) constantly working on the project and
a few people that dropped in every few weeks to help a bit.
Even for technically simple things like testing or translations we never found reliable people.

To summarize:

I want to feel as a real modder again and I had the feeling that this project was starting to die
because most team members were loosing interest and we could not find good new members.

We surely created a good mod and I am really proud of what we have achieved.
But we totally failed to build up a big motivated and reliable team.

I am looking forward to see, what the rest of the team will do.
Also I am still hoping that one day somebody might create a good modmod.

That is it.

I want to feel as a real modder again and I had the feeling that this project was starting to die
because most team members were loosing interest and we could not find good new members.

We surely created a good mod and I am really proud of what we have achieved.
But we totally failed to build up a big motivated and reliable team.

I am looking forward to see, what the rest of the team will do.
Also I am still hoping that one day somebody might create a good modmod.

Click to expand...

Ok, thanks for the honest answer but wouldn't you have the same problem with a new project altogether?

Is it a secret or who are the active members in the R&R team?

Best of luck with the new project.

Pallando said:

... wouldn't you have the same problem with a new project altogether?

Click to expand...

Maybe.

But most importantly, I am already having a lot of fun creating ideas, writing lore and doing crazy prototyping.
I feel like a "real modder" again.

Pallando said:

Best of luck with the new project.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

By the way:
I will try to cooperate with the others from the team.
Maybe I will create the one or the other feature that can be used in both mods.

Is it a secret or who are the active members in the R&R team

Click to expand...

Currently there are NO active members...

Schmiddie said:

Currently there are NO active members...

Click to expand...

...which is quite sad, since RaR development seems to be totally frozen ...
(I mean, the current release 1.3 is really cool, still there are dozens of tweaks that might be done...)

I also know the immense work connected with modding, especially when you are in the position of the "conductor". I can understand, that all the stuff (moderaton, discussions, etc.) became too much for you, ray. It's a big difference between "just modding" and "Project management/moderation"...


But why do I have the unpleasant feeling, that with another new gigantic project - this time SciFi - you'll end up in the same vicious circle again...? Do you really think it's possible to gather a bigger team (and so having an improved division of all the work) for a Sci-Fi-Conversion rather than for RaR?