Monarch to Emperor: the Great Leap

Joey, do you win at Emperor without conquering, or do you only take cities after you're attacked?

Either way, I'd be interested to know how you do it (or any of you out there). I've specialized in domination with Persia. Do you usually go for UN, culture win, spaceship?

I think one needs a lot of cities for a good score, production, and division of labor. I don't see how you can win with ten cities.

Do you engage in culture wars?

Wafna, this is my first crack at Emprorer, so we'll see.

Long post warning . . .

I play on Huge maps, 16 civs. I have 10 cities now, but the land grab isn't over yet. I just ended Ancient era by trading for 5-6 techs on one turn, made up a 5-tech defiicit by getting Literature first and flipping it to all of the others for a tech and gold. Luckily I'm on a big continent and I've met 6 other civs.

As for my preferences . . .

I like to go for the UN, but only so no one else can get it, I usually don't even hold the elections unless it's my only way to win.

I absolutely engage in culture wars, I build nothing but culture and economic improvements unless I can help it. I'll mix in enough military to have at least one defensive unit in every city, and a few more pre-libraries, etc. But when a culture improvement becomes available, I build it. I've only played with the Americans and Mayans. I think it's really important to be industrious, because of the worker bonus, have to have a mine or irrigation on every square if possible. I usually get 4-8 cities to flip in any given game.

I'll build cities on my border to culture attack for resources. I'll also try to surround enemy cities to culture flip them.

If I get a big enough lead to where I have nothing else to build, then I build a massive defensive military and start sticking defense units on every square of the borders I worry about.

I've recently started building lots of artillery too, it's awesome when the AI shows up with 10 or 15 units and you have 30 artillery waiting for him on the counter-attack (need railroads to move them quickly of course). An article on this site gave me that tip.

My basic build is temple, library, cathedral/university (colleges early, cathedrals when happiness becomes a factor and cities are big) marketplace, bank/colessium (bank if available). My settler factories alternate settler/spearman early, with an occasional worker thrown in. I send the settler out and the spearman lags a few turns behind (in emperor I changed that, I build the settler and spearman at the same time in two different cities). But I stop that when a new culture improvement becomes available.

Leonardo's Workshop, Hoover Dam and Internet are musts. I like a Sistine Chapel or Michaelangelo for happiness, but it's not that big of an issue usually. I'm usually so far ahead tech-wise by late industrial early modern that I build all the wonders. I pretty much crank science 100% as long as I can afford it. I build factories in all cities as soon as they are available. I don't build any power plants, I just make a b-line for Hoover. Almost forgot, Darwin's Voyage is huge because of the two free techs which throw you right to Hoover. So of course when I start Darwin, I start a palace somewhere or another wonder (sufferage is usually out there by this point) that can be flipped to hoover. Obviously I go Republic --> Democracy as soon as possible.

The big thing when I get the tech lead is to sell techs that don't lead to the wonders you want for exhorbitant gold amount (3-500 per turn in the later game, plus everything they've got) there's always one or two civs that can afford that, and that lets you crank the science even more. Because I don't get bogged down in wars, I have cities with all improvements and science and gold cranking like no tomorrow. I also do everything I can to maintain goodwill, never break a treaty things like that, which make UN wins automatic generally, though I don't like them.

Since I have the lead, if any moron is dumb enough to attack me, I pay off every other country to ally with me. Pay them with tech or cash, whatever they need. Most of the time the attacker doesn't last the 20 turns. This also works well if you get in an ancient or early middle ages war.

My last monarch game was cool - Ottoman's and Zulus were at war (late industrial), and I didn't want Ottoman to take the two Zulu cities on my border. I forgot to end my RoP with Ottoman, so they used my rail to move to Zulus doorstep (I was inbetween them). So on my turn, I surrounded the Zulu cities with infantry in all 8 squares. Despite my massive army, the ottomans decided to wake the sleeping giant and declared war on me. Couldn't believe it, and we waxed them.

Despite this, I've never had a culture win, I usually build the spaceship before I get enough culture points.

But all of that was on monarch. Emperor is new ballgame for me, I don't know if these tactics will still work or not. If anyone can shed some light on that, please do!

Quick question on Diplomatic wins - can the computer win diplomatically, or is that only a human option? I've never had an AI civ win an election, so I don't know what happens at that point.

If the AI can win, then I think building the UN should be a must, that'd be an easy way for them to win.

Originally posted by Joey Numbaz
If the AI can win, then I think building the UN should be a must, that'd be an easy way for them to win.

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The AI certainly can win a diplomatic victory and that does make the UN a critical build for you unless your reputation is spotless. And even then, it's risky to let one of the AI's build it.

What effects does emperor have on diplomatic victory?

This is the method I used to win in both Regent and Monarch, basically I took the approach to appease my neighbor, jack up production way high in my capital and get the United Nations as soon as possible, if everyone is polite towards me me when I build the UN, then I win.

Does this change in Emperor level?

I'm not so far ahead of you, Joey. I've won at Emperor 3 or 4 times. Nonetheless, I'm convinced that one must wage war a lot to win at Emperor. Recall what Ision says about this.

Originally posted by Ision
The Expansion phase: Lastly, and most importantly is the expansion phase. Before Emperor this phase of the game was still important to you – but not so important that you could not take a couple of liberties (the early Wonder city, having only 1 settler pump, building culture before workers or troops, ect…). The single most frustrating aspect about making the leap from Monarch to Emperor is learning to part with these ‘liberties’. [...] I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to focus almost solely on troops/settlers/and workers in the early game. You WILL NOT keep up or even come close to the AI expansion if you indulge in these liberties. The goal is still ‘overwhelming dominance’ – you just have to get used to the fact that it is not a ‘start to finish’ given any more. At Emperor you can still afford perhaps a single deviation – but no more than that. At Demi or Deity you’ll be toast if you indulge in building at the expense of expansion.
Ision

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I always lost until I came around to this view. Nowadays, I'm either at war or preparing for war. 90% of my production goes to troops. Cities can go 200-300 turns before getting temples. If you can get all of the luxuries, most of your citizens stay happy without temples or any other culture. I only build culture if:

I need to expand a city's area to gain access to productive tiles or increased mobility in wars.

I need to increase the area under my control for a domination win

I want to chop down a forest and need to build something that can make full use of the resulting shield bonus.

I increasingly go to Monarchy and stay there. There's no hurry to get there because despotism lets you reduce conquered populations through pop rushing.

Here's what Sir Pleb's "Maximizing Your Score" post has to say:
***Quote***
To maximize the scoring factors of course requires lots of land. So to get the highest score possible one must begin with a conquest approach to the game. You need to have the majority of the world's land under your control, and as soon as possible, and you will need to boot someone else out to get it. After conquering everyone else (and leaving just some weak and controlled Civ or Civs to keep the game going) you can then of course work toward any of the game's victory conditions.
***Unquote***
I took me a while to fully grasp these lessons (from gurus like Ision and Sir Pleb). When I finally made the leap, winning got a whole lot easier. Oh yeah, look at this saved Emperor game in the Hall of Fame:

8 Wohmongarinf00l 24539 2050 AD Domination Huge Iroquois
It's a Civ3 file, so you might not be able load this file in PTW. I'm sure the PTW games in the Hall of Fame are also worth checking out.
The link is http://hof.civfanatics.net/

If you zoom to some of the cities in 8 Wohmongarinf00l, you'll see very few temples, cathedrals, libraries, etc. His game also shows how he milked the game after wiping out the opposition (except for one city).

OzJeremy said:

Chess is in many ways much more complicated than Civ3 - the beauty of chess is the huge complexity from very simple rules. It's not that hard to program a reasonably realistic chess program; it's just hard to program one that can beat Gary Kasparov. It should not be too hard to program AI that can beat most humans without cheating.

Having said that, I'm a lawyer, so what do I know.

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Thank you OzJeremy! My chessheart was hurting after having read DogmaDog's post!!

And I can agree with you and with Doshniel. I 'm not a great CIV player, but... to me it seems unnatural the AI can only make it harder on you by a (large) handicap (above Monarch). Especially if you take a look at its macro- and micro-managment. What I am trying to say is: we hardly learn from the moves of an AI in this game, and to me that's no fun. I find that a little bit disappointing. In chess, though limited, you can still learn from computer moves. I find that interesting and also part of the fun. It's got what looks like a plan, and the strength of the program is now so that you have to be an extremely good player to notice it's not a human adversary! And I guess it's not because chess would be much simpler then CIV... But don't get me wrong: I find CIV a nice game...

Jaca

ision, when can we expect a demi/deity guide?

Y

I am working on a guide to deity play, hopefully it will be completed in a few weeks - not an easy task!

Ision

I have been playing on Monarch for quite some time and always find myself getting into repitition of the same strategy. I have tried Emperor a few times but found that the my strategies didn't work. I am going to try some of your advice and see how I do. I find that a lot does depend on the layout of the map you choose in Emperor however. Islands lead to a relatively safe initial period with few people being able to attack you but limited tech trading/expansion room etc. Also whether your initial position is near rivers, cattle/wheat, iron, etc. What do you think would be the easiest setup to start on Emperor in term of size and type of map?

Continue to use the map settings you prefer - be as varied as possible. The trick to getting better at Emp has very little to do with map settings, and far more to do with your approach to the game. Be willing to actually LOSE a game - what you will learn in the process will make losses far more uncommon. The biggest problem with the 'great leap' is not the added difficulty, but the typical CIV players having become spoilt by 90 to 100% winning percentages. There are no-short cuts (unless you intend to re-load endlessly in an attempt to stack the deck in your favor). Having said all that, below I will give you my standard advice to those that think the map settings are more important than I do:

When in doubt - use the 'middle' setting of every option, it will give you a taste of multiple strats without the extreme end of any particular map or setting. IOW: standard maps, Continents, 4 billion, roaming barbs, temperate climate, Culture/Space Race/Domination/Conquest victory conditions (no others). This is a nice base-line that will expose you to every aspect of the game without you having to play at the extremes.

Try not to cheat - (no reloading)

Ision

i cannot find the deity guide you say you have written?

Y

yankees said:

i cannot find the deity guide you say you have written?

Y

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He says he is working, so I guess he is still.Good things took their time to complete...

I am also working on a guide: "From Chieftain to Sid in 4 weeks without getting fat and socially isolated".

Longasc said:

I am also working on a guide: "From Chieftain to Sid in 4 weeks without getting fat and socially isolated".

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THAT I'd like to see!!

Hi Ision! I found your Article very interesting! I'm playing for a while at the Emperor level, winning not without bitter contest from the AI part. I have to admit that although I manage quite well at the Emperor Level, winning every time, I still learned some things from your explanations about the Monarch - Emperor step.
Now I'm quite frustrated because I just can't win at the demigod level! I tried 2 times and just couldn't face this level. I would wait with large interest for the Emperor - Demigod leap suggestions!

....And Good Luck, Ision! Keep posting!

Well, being I am trying this "leap", I have a few questions. I actually won the first time I played Emporer, but that was PTW and I can't see to do it in Conquests. Anyways, I understand the emphasis on expanding and build your military early, but do you not build Temples and Barracks still? Also, does everyone just move thier lux slider to 10% to keep that extra people happy? I thought about always using 2 military units and the 10% lux, but I might ask about that before I waste several hours letting some AI kick my butt again.

tproc said:

Well, being I am trying this "leap", I have a few questions. I actually won the first time I played Emporer, but that was PTW and I can't see to do it in Conquests. Anyways, I understand the emphasis on expanding and build your military early, but do you not build Temples and Barracks still? Also, does everyone just move thier lux slider to 10% to keep that extra people happy? I thought about always using 2 military units and the 10% lux, but I might ask about that before I waste several hours letting some AI kick my butt again.

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From what I read as advice and from my own experience I would recommend the lux slider.It has priority to offset the AI production bonus and to expand quickly, so you need every shield you can afford for settlers.The few units you build are better used for protecting settlers/cities from barbarians.
Of course best is to go even more than on lower levels for luxuries - they provide free happiness and often even a decent commerce bonus.

Baracks...perhaps if you are militaristic and plan to do some early warmongering.

Same with temples.Except the case you go for a one-city-20k-culture- victory I would stay away from early temples.Ok, another exception is getting crucial ressources in culture radius, but you are better of if you place your city having them in the initial radius.60 shields is simply too much in this stage of the game and even 30 for a religious civ hamper your expansion.

The AI is pretty dumb (mindblowing revelation), so even with the added units that they have, you can always grab at least twice as many huts as any expansionist opponent that you have.