Demo fine except for THIS

caketastydelish · Jun 8, 2008

Ok, so I was Rome and I was at war with the Aztecs. I get my army of Legions, and march into one of there cities... He had an army of archers defending it. I had an attack of 12 and he had a defense of 15... Not surprisingly, he won that battle. However, I killed at least half of us forces before doing so.

So I attack him again with different forces, that same turn. And instead of the Archers being any weaker, they went from 15, to 18, and all the dead ones apparently revived that same turn!

Please, someone tell me this is a glitch that will be fixed in time for the real game

jayhawk97 · Jun 8, 2008

I believe this can be explained by the Aztec power of units regening health after a victorious battle.

However, I have not only encountered that, but the same thing with the Romans and Greeks... its wierd to me, and its also wierd to me that we cannot see what units are contained in enemy stacks, or in enemy cities...

ccrowe1990 · Jun 8, 2008

No, it is not a glitch. One of the traits of the Aztec leader is that his units have the ability to heal fully after every battle, assuming that they win the previous battle. They were probably more powerful because they gained experience from the previous battle.

vale · Jun 8, 2008

Try sending a spy in to disrupt enemy fortifications before you send your first army in. Its worth the 25 production investment.

And the others are right. Aztecs heal to full health after a victorious combat. So killing them with attrition is not the way to go.

jayhawk97 · Jun 8, 2008

vale said:
Try sending a spy in to disrupt enemy fortifications before you send your first army in. Its worth the 25 production investment.

And the others are right. Aztecs heal to full health after a victorious combat. So killing them with attrition is not the way to go.

Maybe i misinterpreted your statement... but how else would you go about killing someone but attrition? Are you referring to culturally taking their cities or are you referring to your spy suggestion? Or something else?

vale · Jun 8, 2008

By attrition I mean having several armies ready to attack and hoping that if the first one fails, that the second one will be have the advantage of fighting a damaged foe. It is a mainstay of many instances of combat in Civ IV.

However, the Aztecs obviously make this impossible. The only way to kill a unit (or army) of theirs is all in one shot. There will be no "cleaning up".

caketastydelish · Jun 8, 2008

vale said:
By attrition I mean having several armies ready to attack and hoping that if the first one fails, that the second one will be have the advantage of fighting a damaged foe. It is a mainstay of many instances of combat in Civ IV.

However, the Aztecs obviously make this impossible. The only way to kill a unit (or army) of theirs is all in one shot. There will be no "cleaning up".

Well that makes beating them impossible. My best bet would have been to "hold out" until my tech becomes significantly better than his, and with my major tech advantage, I could wipe him out.

vale · Jun 8, 2008

Oldschooler88 said:
Well that makes beating them impossible. My best bet would have been to "hold out" until my tech becomes significantly better than his, and with my major tech advantage, I could wipe him out.

Are you using spies? That will significantly weaken his defending armies. I guess it depends on what time period we are talking about but it is totally doable to wipe out the Aztecs with Legion armies and spies exclusively.

caketastydelish · Jun 8, 2008

vale said:
Are you using spies? That will significantly weaken his defending armies. I guess it depends on what time period we are talking about but it is totally doable to wipe out the Aztecs with Legion armies and spies exclusively.

His Aztec archer army had a defense of 18... Like any legions and spies could ever touch that...

vale · Jun 8, 2008

What level were you playing? If Chieftain a legion army would have had strength 6 + 100% (difficulty) + 50% (veteran) for a total of 15. Or if not veteran (you should have produced just one of those legions in a barracks and the whole army would be +50%) a total of 12.

An army of archers inside a city as you described is base defense of 6 + 50% (palace) + 100% (fortifications) a total of 15.

Send in a spy and that drops that 15 to 9.

You still think legions and spies can't take down an archer army? Don't knock it until you've tried it.

One spy sent in before the first legion makes it a 12 vs 9 combat...advantage you.

In addition, one barracks produced legion in each army makes it a 15 vs 9 combat...major advantage you. Even after the promotion he got for winning the first fight it still would have been 15 v 12.

Schuesseled · Jun 8, 2008

Oldschooler88 said:
Ok, so I was Rome and I was at war with the Aztecs. I get my army of Legions, and march into one of there cities... He had an army of archers defending it. I had an attack of 12 and he had a defense of 15... Not surprisingly, he won that battle. However, I killed at least half of us forces before doing so.

So I attack him again with different forces, that same turn. And instead of the Archers being any weaker, they went from 15, to 18, and all the dead ones apparently revived that same turn!

Please, someone tell me this is a glitch that will be fixed in time for the real game

two things that could have happened or maybe both.

the aztecs heal after a victory so that's why none died, pretty damn useful bopnus come to think of it, best be careful in my dealings with them.

or/and the archers levelled up, by attaining veterancy, or an ability (and yes they can actually choose that ability before your second attack even if its still your turn) they can become stronger.

For example i attacked a zulu archer with 23 def, i lost sent my next unit in and it had 27 def (got leadership), that died after doing some damage, sent my next one in and it had 20 def (shouyld have been lower but had been assigned a great general after the last fight) i killed it and got the great general for doing so. Pretty cool how it can work.

vale · Jun 8, 2008

Oldschooler88 said:
His Aztec archer army had a defense of 18... Like any legions and spies could ever touch that...

It only went up to 18 after getting the promotion after your ill timed and mismanaged initial attack. The problem is not game balance, it was that you strategized poorly. If you don't want your legion armies to face archer armies, you have to rush and use roads. If you don't do that you better have spies. If you do neither, you will lose the fights (and to aztecs probably cannot beat them).

Ferrum Rex · Jun 9, 2008

Oldschooler88 said:
Well that makes beating them impossible. My best bet would have been to "hold out" until my tech becomes significantly better than his, and with my major tech advantage, I could wipe him out.

nah not impossible just hit them quick or late. I like taking them out first when playing as the romans.

dshirk · Jun 9, 2008

Something I tend to do against Aztecs is occupy their production tiles with fortified archers until I have something to attack them with. That way, they are at least not continuing to churn out defensive units.

caketastydelish · Jun 9, 2008

dshirk said:
Something I tend to do against Aztecs is occupy their production tiles with fortified archers until I have something to attack them with. That way, they are at least not continuing to churn out defensive units.

I didn't think of that... I think its pretty awesome how you can do that. In civ 4 occupying production tiles dosen't do anything (although you can always pillage!)
And why just against the Aztecs? Why wouldn't that work against just about anyone?

sigmakan · Jun 9, 2008

It'll work against anyone, but not everyone has their units heal themselves after a battle victory. This makes it very hard to kill those Archer armies.

vale · Jun 9, 2008

Oldschooler88 said:
In civ 4 occupying production tiles dosen't do anything

Yes it does (assuming you are at war). It blocks the use of that tile.

I find it slightly annoying how caravans standing on your tiles in Revolution block your use of that tile. But the AI doesn't exploit this so it happens infrequently at most.

robcheng · Jun 9, 2008

vale said:
I find it slightly annoying how caravans standing on your tiles in Revolution block your use of that tile. But the AI doesn't exploit this so it happens infrequently at most.

Just another excuse to declare war and capture the caravan!

bobbobjack · Jun 9, 2008

About the Aztecs, one thing you could do is to retreat your army just before it gets wiped. I don't think they'll regenerate their defenders in that case.

Ferrum Rex · Jun 9, 2008

they gain experience so i would guess they still get health. i think its still considered a victory.

Demo fine except for THIS

Deity

Chieftain

Chieftain

Mathematician

Chieftain

Mathematician

Deity

Mathematician

Deity

Mathematician

Deity

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Warlord

Firaxian

Deity

Warlord

Mathematician

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Chieftain

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