SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Use artillery on Xian and Hangzhou since after the first turn the artillery we have is useless. So can sacrifice if necessary all the cannons we have on these cities and mop up with units that haven't been upgraded. Leaving other units to drive into his lands or amphibiously strike deeper in.

Great idea. Although, some artillery will be useful in the stacks I drop next to his cities on T0, I think. I'll keep this in mind. Best not to "waste" any modern armor on Xian as you said.
 
If you take out New York DD+0 then you can take out Washington and Chicago DD+1 with the units that are still on the boats you used (likely not very hurt because of the cruise missile and air support)

Let me look into this further. The more I think about it, the more I like it. If we can take the further cities early, later units can easily take the closer cities.

Let me see how many units I can get on ships in the North Sea by T+3 (to attack on T+4).
 
Airport in Chengdu if possible so you can station more planes there. Or a fort on the front to station more planes there too could help.

edit: And an airport allows you to airlift multiple units to this city each turn.

Airport in Chengdu takes 2 turns. If we delay Flight until T+1, it will not be completed until T+3, which is quite late.

So what's more important, getting our fleet/units upgraded or Flight (which costs us ~ 1,500 gold)? 1,500 gold can upgrade 6 galleys to transports, allowing us to get 6 galleys into the war that otherwise would never make it in time. It would also allow us to hold more troops in those transports and attack cities sooner. I think the payoff of this is bigger than Flight a turn earlier, but I'm open to suggestions.
 
Yes the idea for airports in Bananas and similar cities would be whipped. Slavery is fine, I was just looking for a way to get the best of both worlds.

Yes the war is basically over T+5 so the need to whip units would be over, so building the Cristo redeemer would just be a way to get us out of slavery earlier. Then we can peacefully build health buildings for all our poor unhealthy cities. We can atone for all the whipping we have done and will have done and let the world live in peace.

If you get Uranium T+3 with the aggressive plan to take out New York, you can probably arrange max OF in Moscow to build a ICBM in Moscow that turn. And launch it anywhere T+4. And if you haven't used nukes much before come on have some fun :)

The GM can be born in Rheims in 2 turns, so it will move T+2 and then do the trade mission T+3 so you can still use the gold to upgrade things T+3 if you want. Yes those units upgraded T+3 wouldn't be able to attack until T+4, but you can upgrade units and then load them on boats if they are in a city or fort. So the upgraded units could attack T+4 amphibiously.

Plus once you get flight in 1 turn, you can max gold T+1 and then upgrade on a lot of units T+2 even without the GM. Yes those galleys down in the south of Indian's former lands will have trouble getting into the action but they will have 2 moves T+0, T+1, then move 2 upgrade on T+2, then get into place T+3, then attack/land units T+4. Use the gold from GM to upgrade units that you load onto those boats on T+3 as long as you upgrade them in cities where the boats are.
edit: no access to the game, but this plan means those galleys can move 3+3+2+6 on T+0,T+1, T+2, T+3 (isn't that enough?)
edit#2: with refrigeration T+1, finish T+2 even 0% slider if we are still in representaion we get +1 movement on T+3 and T+4 if needed.
 
Also, I'd be willing to declare war on Roos early to get him to move his SOD from NY towards Chengdu. If we leave it sparsely defended, it's quite likely he'll go there and we can easily slaughter his sod while we build our army to move in.

This plan has merit. I think we have two options:

1. Use spy to revolt NY. Attack 22 units in NY (12 rifles, 4 knights, 6 trebs) with 12 cruise missiles and 8 bombers/fighters and then 24 units amphibiously.

2. Declare on DD-1. Have same 24 units on transports just outside of Chengdu by DD-2. If he moves his SOD toward Chengdu, take NY with the required number of units and then slaughter his SOD in the open with units offloaded from transports in Chengdu. This may delay DD by 1 turn if the transports have to be out of Chengdu...
 
by the way Modern Armor is probably better attacking from a boat than a marine even without amphibious promotion. Or a modern armor can land in a captured city and move 2 that turn... (of course a modern armor can't use blitz amphibiously but still it is an option if you need more units for the boats headed for NY.)

You can also get the uranium in North Gandhi lands by hitting rosey's city North of there (if you want to be sure to get access to it T+3 you can have settler ready to settle next to it --I think there is room right?)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcool
--don’t draft in highest pop cities including GP Farm (since trade route income is based on those high pop cities empire wide)
OK, but once we've upgraded our old troops, why do we need a lot of gold?
this from the guy complaining about how much flight costs! and who wants to upgrade everything :)
If we lose 1 from trade route to GP Farm in every city that is 48? * avg wealth modifer every turn.
 
I think Fish is too far away to build boats. Kamchatka is an excellent place to build our North Sea fleet though.
A destroyer T+2 could conceivably help, but yes Fish's drydock was a questionable build I was trying to justify (it did get 3 marines to Stalin a turn earlier with the Nav promotions though)
 
Taking out oil and uranium make sense. I would prefer to use the air force to soften up defenders though, so I would put a low priority on bombing happiness resources.

It is nice to cripple an enemy who would last longer. roosy probably won't last long enough to build any significant military. So this was an idea if we have nothing better to do with our aircraft (all units in range already reduced by max amount)
 
this from the guy complaining about how much flight costs! and who wants to upgrade everything :)
If we lose 1 from trade route to GP Farm in every city that is 48? * avg wealth modifer every turn.

EDIT: 48 gold is orders of magnitude less than 1,500. :)

My thinking is that after about T+4, gold will be less useful. Before then, that gold is precious since it will allow us to get more troops into the action. I likely wouldn't draft in GP Farm anyway since it would take too long for infantry to march that far. There are many, many cities that can be used for drafting. I'll try to do it in the cities that can get the units into action the soonest. If we need to juggle this around, we can do it after I post in my PPP where I'd like to draft.

I'm still on the fence with Flight in one turn. Since this has a fairly large impact on planning, let's wait for others to weigh in on this issue.
 
Flight/cruise missiles/nuke's are all entirely option for crushing Rooservelt in time, so I don't think it is worth going out of our way to get it in 1 turn. I think refrigeration will probably make the war easier as it speeds up our ships movements, and we can get this in 1T even with the slider at 0%.
 
Yes the idea for airports in Bananas and similar cities would be whipped. Slavery is fine, I was just looking for a way to get the best of both worlds.

OK. I think Slavery > Castes so that our low-hammer cities can contribute to the cause.

Yes the war is basically over T+5 so the need to whip units would be over, so building the Cristo redeemer would just be a way to get us out of slavery earlier. Then we can peacefully build health buildings for all our poor unhealthy cities. We can atone for all the whipping we have done and will have done and let the world live in peace.

I assume you're joking here. We should have whipped away most unhealthiness anyway. Most cities will be building workers for much of the final 6 or 7 turns, I think.

If you get Uranium T+3 with the aggressive plan to take out New York, you can probably arrange max OF in Moscow to build a ICBM in Moscow that turn. And launch it anywhere T+4. And if you haven't used nukes much before come on have some fun :)

I think taking NY on T+3 will be very tough considering it has 22 units in it. How much fallout does a nuke produce? In any event, I think it will be too little too late. Plus many times it takes several turns for your culture to creep forward. If we get Uranium, we can try to use it, but I don't think we can plan on it at this point.

The GM can be born in Rheims in 2 turns, so it will move T+2 and then do the trade mission T+3 so you can still use the gold to upgrade things T+3 if you want. Yes those units upgraded T+3 wouldn't be able to attack until T+4, but you can upgrade units and then load them on boats if they are in a city or fort. So the upgraded units could attack T+4 amphibiously.

I like this GM trade mission, whether we go Flight in 1 turn or 2. I think they are mutually exclusive ideas, so I'm trying to keep them separate in my mind.

edit: no access to the game, but this plan means those galleys can move 3+3+2+6 on T+0,T+1, T+2, T+3 (isn't that enough?)

It's 17 tiles from where they are to Philidelphia... Too late.

edit#2: with refrigeration T+1, finish T+2 even 0% slider if we are still in representaion we get +1 movement on T+3 and T+4 if needed.

I think we shoud research Refrigeration after Flight, but it will come rather late unless we go 100% research and learn them in one turn each. However, I don't condone this plan since I think we'll need gold for upgrades.

EDIT: cross post with mdy. I'm all over the map... :D
 
Flight/cruise missiles/nuke's are all entirely option for crushing Rooservelt in time, so I don't think it is worth going out of our way to get it in 1 turn. I think refrigeration will probably make the war easier as it speeds up our ships movements, and we can get this in 1T even with the slider at 0%.

Interesting idea. We can build guided missiles now (Rockety + Radio) and I agree that fighters/bombers are a luxury when we have an almost unlimited supply of guided missiles (60 hammers each) coming from our lower-output cities.

The biggest benefit of Flight as I see it is the ability to build airports, which will allow us to get more modern armor into the war... Although with 20 movement points on railroads, we should be able to get modern armor to the battle front in 2 turns from just about anywhere on the mainland.
 
I agree with mdy - refrigeration will help more if we're not going to rely on slavery. And I totally forgot about workshop hammers. We're better served staying in caste system as we can hammer out the requisite troops from our core cities.

Modern armor are better than marines but many cities can't build modern armor in 1 turn but can build marines in 1 turn.
 
I agree with mdy - refrigeration will help more if we're not going to rely on slavery. And I totally forgot about workshop hammers. We're better served staying in caste system as we can hammer out the requisite troops from our core cities.

I agree on Refrigeration -> Flight at 0% slider all the way.

We have 140 workshops at the moment, so Caste System is providing 140 hammers/turn (EDIT: or 280 with power). I'm sure that Slavery could provide more than 140 (280) hammers for the first few turns, which is when we'll really need to build a lot of troops (plus we'll have a lot of out-of-work specialists just dying to do something (pun intended)). The cities that can build a unit/turn should be able to do so with or without Castes, I think. Those that can't could build 2 units in 3 turns (unit -> whip -> unit w/overflow).

I'm fine either way, Slavery or Castes, since both have a benefit. Every city will contribute to the war effort. Those with power and 30 hammers can build a cruise missile/turn. Higher hammer cities can crank out modern armor and marines. We can draft 3 infantry/turn.

Please vote on Slavery vs. Castes and I can put together a plan either way.

EDIT: I'm leaning toward Caste System and the 280 hammers (I forgot about the 100% hammer bonus when I first wrote this post)

Modern armor are better than marines but many cities can't build modern armor in 1 turn but can build marines in 1 turn.

Good point. I'll keep that in mind.
 
I think taking NY on T+3 will be very tough considering it has 22 units in it. How much fallout does a nuke produce? In any event, I think it will be too little too late. Plus many times it takes several turns for your culture to creep forward. If we get Uranium, we can try to use it, but I don't think we can plan on it at this point.

If you look at the uranium tile we already have culture in it, so unless his city to the south has borders covering this tile as well we will own the uranium the turn we capture NY I believe. Guaranteed if you capture his city to the south next to the horses.
 
I defer to the player playing the set :lol: Both will generate enough units so whichever is easier to manage is fine with me.

That's two votes for Caste System (shyuhe and Mitchum). Castes is much easier since whipping, timing, planning OF, etc. take time to plan.
 
If you look at the uranium tile we already have culture in it, so unless his city to the south has borders covering this tile as well we will own the uranium the turn we capture NY I believe. Guaranteed if you capture his city to the south next to the horses.

OK. I'll try to put together a plan that takes out NY and Xian on D-Day. If we get Uranium, we can decide as a team how to use it. Fair?
 
I'd prefer to not nuke because of the nuclear dust fallout issue (where fallout pops up turns after the nuke is detonated). Erkon claimed to have been unable to reproduce it but I've had that issue in some of my other games and I'd rather not risk it here. We have been warned in the rules discussion that ANY nuclear fallout caused by our own nukes is our responsibility to clean-up. This is regardless of when that fallout arises.
 
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