Is slavery worth it?

jackelgull

An aberration of nature
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Dec 30, 2013
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Within the realm of impossibility
In regular Civ4 slavery was undoubtedly the strongest labor civic only contested by caste system after the happy cap has gone up. But in Rise from Erebus, slavery is overshadowed by many other choices and has become the serfdom of BTS, as in its there but I find myself never using it. There are many reasons for this change.
First of all, in Civ4, slavery came precisely when it was needed, in the early game when the happy cap is low, hammers are scarce and food is plentiful, and was situated on a key tech that you want to shoot for. But in Rise from Erebus it requires going down a disciple line research path, so unless you are planning on making the backbone of your army priests, you have to go out of your way to get it and wait until midgame for it.
Secondly, buildings are more expensive and it is harder to store food. In Civ4, a granary costs 60 hammers and stores fifty percent of the food. In Rise From Erebus, to get the same return you have to spend 330 hammers on 3 buildings, a granary, smokehouse and a salt house, making the whipping process less efficient. TO get a granary in plain Civ4 it requires only 2 pop to rush, but to get the same effect in Rise From Erebus it requires 11 pop.
And finally, gold rushing has become way way better. There are several civics that cause gold rushing but the earliest one, Arête, is available fairly early and has some other peripheral beneficial effects. It is now easier than it has ever been to get gold- Mercantilism gives 2 gold per specialist and a 25 percent increase per city on gold, meaning that merchants become 5 gold per specialist and any city running 4 of them is producing 25 gold. If you are running scholarship, this makes a sage specialist worth 5 beakers and 2 gold and you can run as many of them as your city can fit. 4 sage specialists = 10 gold per turn. With this much gold you'll practically be drowning in it. And even before Mercantilism, Rise From Erebus provides many buildings that produce raw gold- markets, gambling houses etc. Running city states and building courthouses cut down on maintenance.
Is slavery not worth it in Rise from Erebus or is there something I am missing?
 
You are right and you are wrong. For the majority of civs slavery is a horrible civic. But for Mekara, Bals and - arguably - Doviello it's quite neat due to increase of a chance to get slaves from combat, which are used in their unique mechanic. But yeah, that's about it
 
I don't even use Slavery for slaves; just for +1 hammers from mines & quarries.
 
You are right and you are wrong. For the majority of civs slavery is a horrible civic. But for Mekara, Bals and - arguably - Doviello it's quite neat due to increase of a chance to get slaves from combat, which are used in their unique mechanic. But yeah, that's about it

Don't forget the Legion, either.
 
well, and if you are in AV, you can have sacrifice the weak.
meaning only 1F per pop.
this means that you reach the happy/health cap easily, and can quickly have overflow of population.
and that slavery becomes almost twice as efficient... so it becomes slightly better.
also, don't forget those slaves that you can buy/convert... that are a better way to convert gold into hammers than gold-buying... and slaves can be upgraded IIRC into lunatics (and for doviello into combat line??)

and true, the +1H for mine and quarries can help your production a lot.

so not nice for most ppl, but real good for some.
 
Buying slaves is unrelated to Slavery. Slave purchase is via Undercouncil resolution "Setup Slave Trade" so Slavery isn't even needed to have slaves.
 
I don't even use Slavery for slaves; just for +1 hammers from mines & quarries.

I admit that hammer bonus is nice but Arête gives that too plus it allows rush buying and is tied to one of the strongest economical religions in the game. A force of 5 SoK can build the awesome Dwarven mines ASAP and function as workers for important improvements such as cottages. Dwarven mines for the Scions of Patria are the perfect improvement. They give hammers and commerce without having to sacrifice one for the other important considering the scions population restrictions.

The slaves from slavery are a pittance compared to this and as mentioned can be bought.
 
I admit that hammer bonus is nice but Arête gives that too plus it allows rush buying and is tied to one of the strongest economical religions in the game. A force of 5 SoK can build the awesome Dwarven mines ASAP and function as workers for important improvements such as cottages. Dwarven mines for the Scions of Patria are the perfect improvement. They give hammers and commerce without having to sacrifice one for the other important considering the scions population restrictions.

The slaves from slavery are a pittance compared to this and as mentioned can be bought.

RoK isn't an option if you go Risen Emperor though.
 
Yeah, I'm a fan of Korinna the Protector. While the Risen Emperor has an early game hero for protection, Korinna has a mid game death fueled killing machine. Plus the Scions of Patria synergize too well with the idea of working limited but awesome tile improvements to let it go. A size four city working 2 mines plus 2 towns has gained ten hammers plus ten commerce assuming you've reached the end of the tech tree. 4 dwarven fortresses have gained twenty hammers plus twenty four commerce. And while you can argue for immediate versus long term benefit I prefer not to go deep into the semantics. But I suppose you are right in that the Risen Emperor doesn't have the option of Arete and in that case slavery may be a decent choice for him, if only it didn't require him to research down the religious lines which have little benefit for him.
I mean you can argue about the special priests he get, and to unlock his religious building, but still, how often are you going to use a priest over a necromancer?
Sorry if this is getting annoying, I am just wondering if I am selling slavery short and if there are cases when it has uses beyond the obvious cases of the Mekara order and the Legion of D'Tesh who need it for their special mechanic. I suppose to boost the production of an agnostic civ until it has better ways to do so is a good one.
 
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