History of Nazism (split from an OT thread)

Cheezy the Wiz

Socialist In A Hurry
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Weirdly enough, the very same people who say things like these usually aren't exactly doing Jews any favours either, by supporting that pseudo-state that seeks extermination of Jews in their own homeland. If Arabs or Blacks committed the Holocaust instead of Germans or any other European(ised) ethnicity, people like you would have probably denied it.

Neo-Nazis are at least honest about being wholesale opposed to the interests of Jews. That's some kudos for them.

OTOH, since it's all out in the open, their supporters and apologists have literally zero excuses.

The funny thing is, even Hitler wasn't as openly anti-Semitic as neo-Nazis are. Listen to his speeches, they're all about protecting German culture, rebuilding German pride, coming together as a reborn people, etc etc. He probably goes after "The Marxists" more than he does The Jews. That stuff was saved for the propaganda posters.

It's also why hardcore ultra-conservatives really scare me. Terrible things lurk under innocent talk of national unity to protect our superior culture.
 
The funny thing is, even Hitler wasn't as openly anti-Semitic as neo-Nazis are. Listen to his speeches, they're all about protecting German culture, rebuilding German pride, coming together as a reborn people, etc etc. He probably goes after "The Marxists" more than he does The Jews. That stuff was saved for the propaganda posters.

Nazism was a bit of a crowddevelopment avant-la-lettre. Not only Hitler contributed to it, pretty much any Nazi you may have heard of did. Hermann Göring gave the Nazi ideology some similarities with the self-proclaimed ideologies of Third world kleptocracies, including using tax payer money to fund lavish lifestyles. Heinrich Himmler arguably designed the Nazi racial outlook, with its Anti-Slavism, antisemitism and that Aryan race gobbldgook. The antisemitic component of Nazism was largely fleshed out by Himmler (and Rosenberg), Hitler playing a secondary role at best.
 
Nazism was a bit of a crowddevelopment avant-la-lettre. Not only Hitler contributed to it, pretty much any Nazi you may have heard of did. Hermann Göring gave the Nazi ideology some similarities with the self-proclaimed ideologies of Third world kleptocracies, including using tax payer money to fund lavish lifestyles. Heinrich Himmler arguably designed the Nazi racial outlook, with its Anti-Slavism, antisemitism and that Aryan race gobbldgook. The antisemitic component of Nazism was largely fleshed out by Himmler (and Rosenberg), Hitler playing a secondary role at best.

Also an excellent point. However, I would emphasize the difference between wholly inventing something and giving it a necessary upgrade/spin to become politically workable. My impression is that it was far more of the latter; that the other Nazi leaders took many of Hitler's ideas and expanded/changed/reworked them, with their own additions, to make it more consistent, marketable, and/or achievable at the time, especially Himmler and Speer.
 
Also an excellent point. However, I would emphasize the difference between wholly inventing something and giving it a necessary upgrade/spin to become politically workable. My impression is that it was far more of the latter; that the other Nazi leaders took many of Hitler's ideas and expanded/changed/reworked them, with their own additions, to make it more consistent, marketable, and/or achievable at the time, especially Himmler and Speer.

A great of Nazism's ideological appeal came from Goebbels who usually emphasised Nazism's 'socialist' side, almost to the point of becoming ideologically a Stasserist. In fact, he did openly support allying with Stalin somewhere in the 1920s. This naturally didn't happen, since Hitler was a fierce Anti-Communist, but it's rather telling how divided Nazism was.
 
Moderator Action: Split this from the OT thread about cultural genocide of Canadian First Nations.
 
And then there were people like Julius Streicher. If most of the other Nazi bigwigs hate you because they think you're an anti-Semitic nut... you just might have been overdoing it.
 
Hermann Göring gave the Nazi ideology some similarities with the self-proclaimed ideologies of Third world kleptocracies, including using tax payer money to fund lavish lifestyles.

Also an excellent point.

Seeing as Hitler did the same, that 'self-proclaimed ideologies of Third world kelptocracies' is simply an anachronism, and self aggrandizement isn't part of any ideology, it's not that much of a point at all.
 
Pictured here: The humble lifestyle of a traditional, first world head of state.

 
That does look slightly more impressive than Downingstreet 10, doesn't it? Do a lot of Nazis live there or is there some other esoteric connection with the topic?
 
Seeing as Hitler did the same, that 'self-proclaimed ideologies of Third world kelptocracies' is simply an anachronism, and self aggrandizement isn't part of any ideology, it's not that much of a point at all.
I think self-aggrandisement is the ideology of most politicians, but that's just me. Literally, given my choice of user name.

Nazism was an extremely disunified movement. About the only thing most Nazis would agree on was loyalty to Hitler, and even that wasn't always a given, as the Strassers proved. There were even Nazis who weren't anti-Semitic, bizarrely enough.
 
Well, the Strassers weren't exactly anti-Hitler: they represented a social(ist) element Hitler no longer had any use for after gaining power. Hence the Night of the Long Knives, which eleminated the Strassers and their following. The fact that this also limited the power of the SA as a movement shouldn't be disregarded either.
 
Well we should be looking across the pond a bit to see the ultimate roots of Nazism, with the fact that many of the American elite were ardent Eugenicists and the Nazi's studied them very well. the main difference if how far the nazi's took it in comparison to the Americans, but idealogically they wre one and the same and in fact many Americans did support the Nazi's.
The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics
Even the United States Supreme Court endorsed aspects of eugenics. In its infamous 1927 decision, Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind…. Three generations of imbeciles are enough." This decision opened the floodgates for thousands to be coercively sterilized or otherwise persecuted as subhuman. Years later, the Nazis at the Nuremberg trials quoted Holmes's words in their own defense.

Only after eugenics became entrenched in the United States was the campaign transplanted into Germany, in no small measure through the efforts of California eugenicists, who published booklets idealizing sterilization and circulated them to German officials and scientists.

Hitler studied American eugenics laws. He tried to legitimize his anti-Semitism by medicalizing it, and wrapping it in the more palatable pseudoscientific facade of eugenics. Hitler was able to recruit more followers among reasonable Germans by claiming that science was on his side. While Hitler's race hatred sprung from his own mind, the intellectual outlines of the eugenics Hitler adopted in 1924 were made in America.

During the '20s, Carnegie Institution eugenic scientists cultivated deep personal and professional relationships with Germany's fascist eugenicists. In Mein Kampf, published in 1924, Hitler quoted American eugenic ideology and openly displayed a thorough knowledge of American eugenics. "There is today one state," wrote Hitler, "in which at least weak beginnings toward a better conception [of immigration] are noticeable. Of course, it is not our model German Republic, but the United States."

Hitler proudly told his comrades just how closely he followed the progress of the American eugenics movement. "I have studied with great interest," he told a fellow Nazi, "the laws of several American states concerning prevention of reproduction by people whose progeny would, in all probability, be of no value or be injurious to the racial stock."

Hitler even wrote a fan letter to American eugenic leader Madison Grant calling his race-based eugenics book, The Passing of the Great Race his "bible."

Hitler's struggle for a superior race would be a mad crusade for a Master Race. Now, the American term "Nordic" was freely exchanged with "Germanic" or "Aryan." Race science, racial purity and racial dominance became the driving force behind Hitler's Nazism. Nazi eugenics would ultimately dictate who would be persecuted in a Reich-dominated Europe, how people would live, and how they would die. Nazi doctors would become the unseen generals in Hitler's war against the Jews and other Europeans deemed inferior. Doctors would create the science, devise the eugenic formulas, and even hand-select the victims for sterilization, euthanasia and mass extermination.

During the Reich's early years, eugenicists across America welcomed Hitler's plans as the logical fulfillment of their own decades of research and effort. California eugenicists republished Nazi propaganda for American consumption. They also arranged for Nazi scientific exhibits, such as an August 1934 display at the L.A. County Museum, for the annual meeting of the American Public Health Association.

In 1934, as Germany's sterilizations were accelerating beyond 5,000 per month, the California eugenics leader C. M. Goethe upon returning from Germany ebulliently bragged to a key colleague, "You will be interested to know, that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of the group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epoch-making program. Everywhere I sensed that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought.…I want you, my dear friend, to carry this thought with you for the rest of your life, that you have really jolted into action a great government of 60 million people."
 
Eugenics was popular in a lot of places in the 1930s, not just the U.S. and Germany. Wasn't an American hanged for treason after the war for working as a propagandist for the Nazis? I thought Darre was American, but Wiki says he was Argentinian.
 
Well we should be looking across the pond a bit to see the ultimate roots of Nazism, with the fact that many of the American elite were ardent Eugenicists and the Nazi's studied them very well. the main difference if how far the nazi's took it in comparison to the Americans, but idealogically they wre one and the same and in fact many Americans did support the Nazi's.

A bit of an overstatenment: prior to WW II both Hitler and Mussolini weren't considered abject politicians generally. But that apart, eugenics was just one ingredient of the Nazism ideological cocktail. It's going too far to go look for 'the ultimate roots of Nazism' in the US. Antisemitism was rather widespread before Hitler approved death camps as a 'solution,' and many Jewish refugees from pre-war Nazi Germany were simply unwelcome in quite a few Western countries.
 
Nazi doctors would become the unseen generals in Hitler's war against the Jews and other Europeans deemed inferior.

The Nazis wanted to eliminate competition:

"(...) By the middle decades of the 19th century people began to note the intelligence of the Jews in written publications. It was noted in Britain by Francis Galton, the cousin of Charles Darwin. In his book, 'Hereditary Genius', of 1869, in which he estimated the IQs of various peoples, he noted that the Jews - and the Chinese - have high intelligence. It was noted by Count de Gobineau in France, who maintained that the Jews and the 'Aryans' were the two most intelligent peoples, a view which was taken on board by Hitler and set out in his 'Mein Kampf'. And it was noted in the United States by Mark Twain. This became widely accepted throughout Europe and the United States. (...)" - Richard Lynn

Only after eugenics became entrenched in the United States was the campaign transplanted into Germany, in no small measure through the efforts of California eugenicists, who published booklets idealizing sterilization and circulated them to German officials and scientists.

Hitler studied American eugenics laws. He tried to legitimize his anti-Semitism by medicalizing it, and wrapping it in the more palatable pseudoscientific facade of eugenics. Hitler was able to recruit more followers among reasonable Germans by claiming that science was on his side. While Hitler's race hatred sprung from his own mind, the intellectual outlines of the eugenics Hitler adopted in 1924 were made in America.

During the '20s, Carnegie Institution eugenic scientists cultivated deep personal and professional relationships with Germany's fascist eugenicists. In Mein Kampf, published in 1924, Hitler quoted American eugenic ideology and openly displayed a thorough knowledge of American eugenics. "There is today one state," wrote Hitler, "in which at least weak beginnings toward a better conception [of immigration] are noticeable. Of course, it is not our model German Republic, but the United States."

Hitler proudly told his comrades just how closely he followed the progress of the American eugenics movement. "I have studied with great interest," he told a fellow Nazi, "the laws of several American states concerning prevention of reproduction by people whose progeny would, in all probability, be of no value or be injurious to the racial stock."

Hitler even wrote a fan letter to American eugenic leader Madison Grant calling his race-based eugenics book, The Passing of the Great Race his "bible."

Hitler's struggle for a superior race would be a mad crusade for a Master Race. Now, the American term "Nordic" was freely exchanged with "Germanic" or "Aryan." Race science, racial purity and racial dominance became the driving force behind Hitler's Nazism. Nazi eugenics would ultimately dictate who would be persecuted in a Reich-dominated Europe, how people would live, and how they would die. Nazi doctors would become the unseen generals in Hitler's war against the Jews and other Europeans deemed inferior. Doctors would create the science, devise the eugenic formulas, and even hand-select the victims for sterilization, euthanasia and mass extermination.

During the Reich's early years, eugenicists across America welcomed Hitler's plans as the logical fulfillment of their own decades of research and effort. California eugenicists republished Nazi propaganda for American consumption. They also arranged for Nazi scientific exhibits, such as an August 1934 display at the L.A. County Museum, for the annual meeting of the American Public Health Association.

About the affirmative action for the WASPs (versus the Jews) in the USA before WW2:

"(...) A curious feature of the IQ of the Jews is that they are particularly strong on the verbal and reasoning abilities, and not nearly so strong on the visual and spatial abilities. (...) This profile of the Jews expresses itself in the areas of attainment in which Jews excell. Jews are very prominent in occupations requiring verbal and reasoning abilities, such as law, science, literature (...) but not so strong on occupations requiring visual and spatial abilities, such as engineering and architecture. There are not many prominent Jews in the fields of engineering and architecture. It is hard to name eminent Jews in these occupations. (...) The high IQ of the Jews rapidly expressed itself in the USA, to which most of the Jews went after they fled from Russia in the 1880s. They arrived as refugees mainly in New York and initially had to take humble occupations, mainly in tailoring. But their children (...) excelled at school, and began to gain entry to the elite universities. And by around 1920 this became a concern to those who ran these universities, which were largely ran by WASPs - White Anglo-Saxon Protestants - in those days. Because it appeared that they were being swarmed by these large numbers of Jews obtaining entrance. Jews were reaching about 20% of the intake in Harvard, Yale and Princeton and as high as 40% in Columbia in NYC. It was decided that steps had to be taken to try to contain the number of Jews, otherwise the place would be totally swarmed by these clever Jews. Previously Jews had been admitted on the SAT - the Scholastic Ability Test (...) But in order to contain the intake of Jews, other criteria for admission became adopted. Jewish quotas were established (...)" - Richard Lynn

=========================================

Generally speaking, the 'Aryans'/Nordics/Germanics/WASPs/call them as you want, were terrified that the Jews successfully challenged their position.

Therefore the genocide of the "unfairly privileged Jews" was necessary for them to carry out, to prevent their loss of world domination.
 
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