Best good-v-evil custom settings?

Aporia

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
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What's the best way to set up a game that takes full advantage of the FFH flavor? If I'm playing good I want the evil civs to found AV and invite in the Infernals; if I'm playing evil I want the good civs to take up the crusade against me. What really seems to happen is that I get AV or Order and then everyone converts to it, and we're all good or evil together :/

Edit: without using the option that doubles the AC.
 
What really seems to happen is that I get AV or Order and then everyone converts to it, and we're all good or evil together :/

Yeah. And if the Khazad are in the game, they found RoK, and everyone who isn't Good becomes Neutral. Good vs. Neutral doesn't have the same flavour as Good vs. Evil.

The enviromenatlist utopia which happens when FoL is found early by the Ljos, while not aligment-changing, is still annoying.

There had been complaints about AI civs too willing to adop whatever religion comes first, making initial aligments not as meaningful as they should. Sure, there should be some redemptions, but they shouldn't occur with such frequency as they do.

There is no options like that, AFAIK. At least, there should be an option to disallow the spread of aligment-changing religions to nations whose aligment may change as a result of that adoption, even through it would be too deterministic.
 
Primarily, I'd like more civilizations beeline for specific religions. While it won't stop the "first come, first serve"-mechanic, it will mean that some player will have 'set' religions (a civilization with a Holy City is unlikely to change, afaik) and assure multiple points of origins for the multitude of religions.

Usually, the "Kumbaya-effect" takes place because I'm the originator, spreading it to my neighbors, and from there, the world. If there's only two or three religions in the game, maybe two formed by me (Often Order & Empyrean), it's not suprising that they become widely dominant.

I've had great success mitigating this problem in games where I've assured that all religions are available and spread out by turn ~200. If Ashen Veil is formed in a distant land, it will spread from there, and eventually meet mine, resulting in a good equilibrium of Neutral vs. Good vs. Evil vs. Neutral dichotomy. Of course, this isn't an actual solution to the problem. It's just a workaround.

I had TWO Sheaim in my latest game, in a team with Sidar. NONE of them founded Ashen Veil, until I GAVE it to them through the world builder, past Turn 200. At one point, they even adopted Order. That's just plain wrong.
 
What's the best way to set up a game that takes full advantage of the FFH flavor? If I'm playing good I want the evil civs to found AV and invite in the Infernals; if I'm playing evil I want the good civs to take up the crusade against me. What really seems to happen is that I get AV or Order and then everyone converts to it, and we're all good or evil together :/

Edit: without using the option that doubles the AC.

If you have some time, open Civ4LeaderHeadinfos (it's in Assets/XML/Civilizations) and give all good leader an ReligionWeightModifier towards AV of -100 and all evil leaders an ReligionWeightModifier towards Order of -100.
You probably also want to increase the iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit and iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit (must be a negative value) to make sure the bad guys don't backstab each other all the time.
 
If you have some time, open Civ4LeaderHeadinfos (it's in Assets/XML/Civilizations) and give all good leader an ReligionWeightModifier towards AV of -100 and all evil leaders an ReligionWeightModifier towards Order of -100.
You probably also want to increase the iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit and iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit (must be a negative value) to make sure the bad guys don't backstab each other all the time.

Thanks! I was hoping there was a simple solution like this. What do the iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit and iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit do? I'd like to make as little a change as possible without breaking something new, as you implied might happen.
 
iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit decides how much a leader likes other leaders with the same Religion and iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit how much he dislikes leaders with other religions. For example if you increase iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit there should be less wars between leaders of the same faith. Both values are visible and thus shown in diplomatic relations. You don't have to change those values, but the impact of religion on diplomatic relations isn't that high for some leaders.
 
If you have some time, open Civ4LeaderHeadinfos (it's in Assets/XML/Civilizations) and give all good leader an ReligionWeightModifier towards AV of -100 and all evil leaders an ReligionWeightModifier towards Order of -100.
You probably also want to increase the iSameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit and iDifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit (must be a negative value) to make sure the bad guys don't backstab each other all the time.
Just remember that, if "you" (the player) actually wants to play an evil civ as good (Calabim comes to mind), don't change that one. ;)

That is all.
 
Just remember that, if "you" (the player) actually wants to play an evil civ as good (Calabim comes to mind), don't change that one.

Will -99 do the trick?
 
Before you start the game, add in a few random good or evil civs (the opposite of whatever you are). Also, if the religions dont sort out right go into world builder and pass out order and ashen veil as neccisary.
 
there used to be a modmod by sto called Alignment options, which added a few options in this area. One of them was that no AI leader would adopt a religion that changed his/her alignment, another was that all leaders of opposite alignment would be at war for the rest of the game. It should still be on the forums, i just don't know if it's up to date.
 
I know exactly what you're talking about, Aporia, I ONLY play games that are stacked one way or another, usually against me. The biggest factor in creating a Good vs. Evil war is religion, Order vs. Ashen Veil, with the side benefit that Ashen Veil will also shoot the AC up and create all kinds of mayhem.

Playing as Good, I always always include the Sheim and the Clan of Embers, with a couple other Evils thrown in as well. Interestingly, I've found that the Clan is almost as likely to found Ashen Vel as the Sheim. I like a little randomness in my games, but beware if the Khazad or Ljosalfar turn up as a random civ for their stupid early religions.

Unless the Clan or the Sheim is unusually strong (they both tend to be underperformers in my games), I'll get to Order before they get to AV; in that case, I'll wait on the tech, researching elsewhere until it's time to return to Orders from Heaven. The trick is getting the timing right. You want THEM to found AV first, and then you need to give that religion a bit of a head start, because you can always spread Order crazy fast with the self-propagating Adepts, and you definitely don't want everybody adopting Order and turning GOOD on you.

Usually I mess up this timing. As another poster said, civs will jump on whatever religion enters their lands first, and with the civ balance already leaning Evil I'm a little slow in getting Order out to my neighbors. Before I know it, everybody's Ashen Veil, Hyborem is knocking on my door, Hell terrain is everywhere, and I'm fighting a heroic losing battle against Armageddon.

But, then again, that's exactly what I was looking for.
 
To avoid spreading of early religions, play on a huge map but with few civs. Also add barbarian world and each civ should be isolated long enough for them to get the "right" religions. In my games, the correct civs seem to quite often head for their correct religion when thinking of research (e.g. not spreading). Some civs should be blocked from adpoting certain religions, but that I don't think is possible as I think that part of Civ is hardcoded.
 
Some civs should be blocked from adpoting certain religions, but that I don't think is possible as I think that part of Civ is hardcoded.

It's possible to do by ReligionWeights in the XML.
 
Yes, but that is leader specific, not civ specific. If you wanted to block the Calabim from adopting the Emyrean you would need to give all their leaders a -100 weight towards it, including Decius who is also a Bannor and Malakim leader and should lean havily towards the Empyrean when played as a Malakim.


It could be nice if the ReligionWeights were added to the civ file too.


It is also of course possible to have a religion automatically removed for a civ's cities each turn in python (as is done for the Infernals and Mercurians), but that would still allow the civ to convert right after founding a temple.
 
Well, Decius is somewhat of an exception here. In other cases, blocking religion by leaders does the trick.
 
Here's the LeaderHeadInfos.xml I use with FfH to create worlds with religions more according to the lore:

Link.

(Also, there are fewer backstabbers and the Opening Borders is harder).

I use it with the more limited spread of RoK and FoL. I'm still experimenting with the spread values. Currently they are set to 5. Maybe the early religions are now at some disadvantage, althrough that may not be a bad thing. Here's the modified ReligionInfos file:

Link.

First file goes to Beyond the Sword/Mods/Fall From Heaven 2/Assets/XML/Civilizations, second one goes to Beyond the Sword/Mods/Fall From Heaven 2/Assets/XML/Gameinfo. Don't forget to backup the originals.
 

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I've never tried this, but I'm wondering if the following would work:

Pick some goody civs and some baddy civ's.

Play locked alliances -- goodies vs. baddies. Maybe even play always at war.

Disable all religions besides Order and the AV

Start the goody Civ's (or maybe just one if a permanent war) with an acolyte of Order and the baddie Civ's with acolytes of the AV (or maybe just one).

To add spice maybe add some neutral Civ's and race to convert them.

The Acolytes should found their religions and then the nations should convert.


Anyway, it may be worth a try.


Best wishes,

Breunor
 
simply remove all religions except Order and AV through options, that usually winds up entertaining
NVM just follow Breunor's advice, though I personally wouldn't do always war, if only to get it to later stages of tech
 
Well, you might want to experience both Good-vs-Evil confrontation and many different religions...
 
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