Attila Deity Domination Guide

beetle · Feb 3, 2014

Thanks for this Cromagnus!

To the critics making well-reasoned arguments that Liberty has the edge on Honor and/or that Instant Heal is more strategic than Logistics: Even if you are right (which is debatable), you are wrong! You are missing the most import feature of this guide!

What Cromagnus has laid out is powerful and straightforward. But even more importantly: This is a fun way to play! Honor is more fun than liberty. Logistics is much more fun than Instant Heal.

Vitruvius · Feb 3, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
IMHO,if you want to achieve a pre-100t victory,Liberty is far better than Honor,because 1 production per city+one more city to train units mean 1.5 times military strength.Logistics?I only need Instant Heal.Quantity over Quality,that's what it means

Doesnt honor has a train melee units 50% faster?

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Fallen_Kings · Feb 4, 2014

Vitruvius said:
Doesnt honor has a train melee units 50% faster?

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15%,not 50%.And why build melee units?

Cromagnus · Feb 4, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
15%,not 50%.And why build melee units?

Believe it or not, I've been playing with melee first approach. I think it can work for a center start. Rushing to bronzeworking before the wheel and spamming warriors/rams actually works pretty well on the right map. The first few capitals are close enough, and so early in the game the rams are strong enough that they just need a sacrificial warrior to absorb damage. You've got a great general for assistance as well, and the second one comes fast. The horse archers catch up.

I don't think it's a stronger play in the long run, but it's fun.

Cromagnus · Feb 4, 2014

beetle said:
Thanks for this Cromagnus!

To the critics making well-reasoned arguments that Liberty has the edge on Honor and/or that Instant Heal is more strategic than Logistics: Even if you are right (which is debatable), you are wrong! You are missing the most import feature of this guide!

What Cromagnus has laid out is powerful and straightforward. But even more importantly: This is a fun way to play! Honor is more fun than liberty. Logistics is much more fun than Instant Heal.

I think the thing is, every strategy has a timing associated with it.

IMHO, the Instant Heal strategy, although I admit it works, only does if you can finish the map super-fast. Some time around t110-t120 you need Logistics to keep momentum going with strength 10 units. And Instant Heal requires carefully managing health and XP so you don't waste the chance to heal. All of this on top of optimal unit placement, siege tactics, etc.

Basically, if you're *really really good* at Domination, Instant Heal will set even faster record times if you get lucky. This I concede. The logistics approach, while not perfect, works for me every time, regardless of luck. Bad start, good start, doesn't matter.

And just like Instant Heal, Horse Archer w/ Logistics has a timing associated with it. You have to be down to one opponent by t150 roughly, or you've put yourself in an unrecoverable tech hole.

So, I look at it like this:

Strategy - Risk/finish time

Instant Heal - Very High/Super Early
Logistics - Medium/Early
Artillery - Medium/Medium
Bombers - Low/Late

Just my opinion though.

Fallen_Kings · Feb 4, 2014

Cromagnus said:
IMHO, the Instant Heal strategy, although I admit it works, only does if you can finish the map super-fast.

Actually,Liberty,Instant Heal plus early war strategy is not originally designed for quick domination,but for early science victory in GK period.At that time a player achieved a 173 SV playing as Celt and proved that Liberty is better than Tradition in SV by combining war into early expansion.War guarantees room,luxuries and safety(less backstab,less reckless expansioner),thus removing all the obstacles of city sprawl.In BNW early war and city sprawl are both nerfed but soon we soon found out that things haven't change:Aquiring gold,luxuries and cities through peace treaty is effective and without a warmonger penalty ,it is much easier to declare friendship,thus giving access to more happiness which ensures populance growth.You know,if you have 10+cities and 100+ beakers before t100(which I have achieved many times in BNW,in GK I even got 100 citizens before t100 when playing as Huns),victory is just a matter of Next Turn. :lol:

I think this is super fun because in this way you do create the greatest empire ever seen in history,NO.1 in every aspect. :lol:

Cromagnus · Feb 4, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
Actually,Liberty,Instant Heal plus early war strategy is not originally designed for quick domination,but for early science victory in GK period.At that time a player achieved a 173 SV playing as Celt and proved that Liberty is better than Tradition in SV by combining war into early expansion.War guarantees room,luxuries and safety(less backstab,less reckless expansioner),thus removing all the obstacles of city sprawl.In BNW early war and city sprawl are both nerfed but soon we soon found out that things haven't change:Aquiring gold,luxuries and cities through peace treaty is effective and without a warmonger penalty ,it is much easier to declare friendship,thus giving access to more happiness which ensures populance growth.You know,if you have 10+cities and 100+ beakers before t100(which I have achieved many times in BNW,in GK I even got 100 citizens before t100 when playing as Huns),victory is just a matter of Next Turn.

I think this is super fun because in this way you do create the greatest empire ever seen in history,NO.1 in every aspect.

hah, I do like that aspect of it!

Off-topic but, sure 10+ cities by t100 ensures victory, but it's not better than 6 in BNW. I've achieved 115 beakers by t100 with 4 cities, which, by my math, is equivalent to 145 beakers with 10+ cities... seems like annexing requires that you build courthouses before universities, which would slow things down a lot. Anyway, topic for another thread.

Fallen_Kings · Feb 4, 2014

Cromagnus said:
Believe it or not, I've been playing with melee first approach. I think it can work for a center start. Rushing to bronzeworking before the wheel and spamming warriors/rams actually works pretty well on the right map. The first few capitals are close enough, and so early in the game the rams are strong enough that they just need a sacrificial warrior to absorb damage. You've got a great general for assistance as well, and the second one comes fast. The horse archers catch up.

I don't think it's a stronger play in the long run, but it's fun.

Only works for Attila...

Damn their battering rams are devastating even at sea.I'v tried Attila on archipelago

.Rams stacking with trireme are just insane!

Cromagnus · Feb 4, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
Only works for Attila...

Damn their battering rams are devastating even at sea.I'v tried Attila on archipelago

.Rams stacking with trireme are just insane!

Makes me wonder if Siege Towers would confer their 50% bonus to triremes... I imagine so.

Vitruvius · Feb 4, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
15%,not 50%.And why build melee units?

Horsemans + horse archers are very good if you wanna do it fast.

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Cromagnus · Feb 4, 2014

Vitruvius said:
Horsemans + horse archers are very good if you wanna do it fast.

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Horsemen are mounted. Not melee. Same issue with riflemen and scouts. IMHO this is one of the more obvious signs that honor was poorly planned. They boosted ranged units tremendously and in so doing left honor with pretty lame bonuses for the most part.

Laurwin · Feb 5, 2014

Yesterday I played a king level game, small, continents, quick.

I won the game with freedom boosted diplo victory, but I wanted to have some FUN on Shaka's behalf with my military units.

Let's just say that it wasn't exactly Zulu Dawn, with zulu pikemen vs gatling guns and rifles...

It was actually zulu pikemen, vs B-17, missile cruisers, nuclear sub, xcom, modern armor, mechanized infantry (highly promoted from minuteman)...

Let's just say I had a good chuckle on Shaka's behalf. I was completely flabbergasted how Shaka could remain so backwards so late into the game.

The answer was probably in his land. Shakas continent only had "habitable" land enough for 2 cities. And even so, Shaka kept spamming these stupid snow/tundra cities, with like, 1 salt and 2 fish, completely inside an ice-blocked inland sea.

I was like, Shaka what have you done?! :lol:

He did have many pikemen and triremes though... for a while at least...

Fallen_Kings · Feb 5, 2014

Cromagnus said:
Horsemen are mounted. Not melee. Same issue with riflemen and scouts. IMHO this is one of the more obvious signs that honor was poorly planned. They boosted ranged units tremendously and in so doing left honor with pretty lame bonuses for the most part.

Ranged units domainate the land until the arrival of gunpowder :lol:

Vitruvius · Feb 5, 2014

Fallen_Kings said:
Ranged units domainate the land until the arrival of gunpowder

Not true. The reason ranged units are good in single player is because it counters the AI carpet of doom. There are no space for mounted units to maneuvre. But with an early aggressive playstyle, and the AI barely having a carpet of doom, mounted units are very powerful. Because they are able to pick off individual units more effectively. Ranged units are too slow and need protection. Once you break formation, they are vulnerable. But keeping them together really slows down your progress.

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Cromagnus · Feb 5, 2014

Correction: Mounted ranged units dominate the land, even beyond the introduction of gunpowder. And that's why Attila, who is the first to get ranged mounted units without losing all movement in rough terrain, is the master of domination. Egypt is probably close. +1 move and cheaper to produce probably evens things out. I've yet to test that theory. But I believe it's probably close.

mclericp · Feb 7, 2014

about DOW on states:

How can i raze their city states if citystate razing isnt allowed in civ 5? I wish there was an option to let us raze states

Cromagnus · Feb 7, 2014

? I don't usually capture a CS unless there's a dramatic advantage to a natural wonder in its borders. You can DoW and steal workers, and maybe get a little XP if you have nothing better to do but otherwise I usually just ask for tribute or do quests.

peddroelm · Feb 8, 2014

Cromagnus said:
Correction: Mounted ranged units dominate the land, even beyond the introduction of gunpowder. And that's why Attila, who is the first to get ranged mounted units without losing all movement in rough terrain, is the master of domination. Egypt is probably close. +1 move and cheaper to produce probably evens things out. I've yet to test that theory. But I believe it's probably close.

there is also Ghandi and his ranged hill climbing elephants (costs more hammers to build, moves slower , no free promotion / no extra production , but it gets slightly more offense/defense stats) .. He doesn't get rams but with your level of hun expertise you might be able to pull it off with him too ..

Fallen_Kings · Feb 8, 2014

peddroelm said:
there is also Ghandi and his ranged hill climbing elephants (costs more hammers to build, moves slower , no free promotion / no extra production , but it gets slightly more offense/defense stats) .. He doesn't get rams but with your level of hun expertise you might be able to pull it off with him too ..

War Elephant alone is excellent,but elepaht with Ghandi's UA ...What a pity.

Cromagnus · Feb 8, 2014

I tried it, and the slower build times were an issue, but the unhappiness issues were hard to manage for sure. It's tricky at best

Attila Deity Domination Guide

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Prince

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Warlord

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