Could You Have Finished This Game Quicker?

Fish Man

Fish Man

Emperor
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
1,545
In a previous thread, I asked for advice on how to get faster SVs. I used that advice to get a t277 launch as Babylon, but it seems that even with a really good start and doing everything necessary, I'm still about 25 turns behind. I think the main problem lies in my endgame strats - I got ST at t156 which should be quite fast, but only plastics with Oxford by t207 and satellites at t250. The victory finally came at t277, which imo was really late with such a good map. I bulb from railroad to rocketry, then advanced ballistics, then robotics - after that, I accumulate 4 more GS and bulb to PP after researching nanotech. My question is: what am I doing wrong in the late game that's slowing me down so much? As usual, some saves/screenies are provided. Is sub-t250 SV on this map possible? If any significant (10+ turns) reduction in turn time is possible, can anyone please play from t150 or t0 to do so, and tell me how exactly it was accomplished, with some screenshots and instructions?

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :
 

Attachments

  • Nebby2.0_0000 BC-4000.Civ5Save
    512.4 KB · Views: 65
  • Nebby2.0_0150 AD-0800.Civ5Save
    1,003.3 KB · Views: 45
  • Nebby2.0_0277 AD-1814 AFTER.Civ5Save
    1.2 MB · Views: 52
Salts and wheat? Babylon? SV? :lol:
I'm pretty sure the masters can finish sub200 even.
Having a good faith income would certainly help though as you can buy GS.
 
kb27787 said:
Salts and wheat? Babylon? SV? :lol:
I'm pretty sure the masters can finish sub200 even.
Having a good faith income would certainly help though as you can buy GS.
Click to expand...

I had accumulated about 1000 faith in the end, but didn't have enough resources to ally with faith-CS, faith buildings only produced very little, and everyone was constantly spamming religion on me. Even if I had like 10k faith, 3 more GS wouldn't have made a 100-turn difference. How to get such insane faith? I'm sure this was only one mistake of many, though. Any advice? :(
 
I have some questions:

1) When did you build the shrine?
2) Why do you have only 2 academies? Did you start saving the GS for bulbing before ST? More academies = faster plastics ... I can't remember a SV/CV game where I had only 2 tbh. And especially with Babylon, where you get the first one on T30 or something ...
3) What was your tech path after ST? Beeline plastics or ?
4) Techpath after Plastics? I see you researched several unneeded techs (like internet).
5) When exactly did you bulb the GS?
 
Get an early Shrine and grab the Earth Mother Pantheon... with that much Salt, that should give you a Religion and the Faith for 3-4 Faith-Bought GS, which should cut something like 20 Turns off the Victory time and put you in the Ballpark of where you were aiming for... AFAIK a sub-200 Turn SV is not possible without use of the Scolars in Residence Exploit, but I could be wrong^^
 
And some general comments after I saw the t150 save:

1) Your religion is rather useless. I don't know when you found it, but +1 happy from shrines and tithe (when you don't have FTP to spread), is meh . I'd better have a holy site instead, or pick completely different capital oriented beliefs (like +15% production, divine inspiration, reliquary). But still, when you don't have faith producing beliefs, then build a grand temple at least ... Not that I build it often myself, but I most of the time do not found religion, when I don't have faith pantheon, and I kinda don't understand why you took that pantheon - even if DF is not available, you have faith from Salt/Copper/Iron available, and you have a lot of all of these ...

2) You had the option to get Mosque/Monastery in your other cities - even if its too late to net you faith, the 220 faith from monastery on T150 will need 110 turns to pay off, but u get like 220 culture in the process as bonus ...

3) Not having gardens slows you down, that late National Epic too ...
4) Working Merchant slot instead of a mine?
5) No roads on T150, these need to be build way earlier. You lose a lot of gold because of this.
6) Too low CPT (28 per turn, when next policy is at 840 is not good). You have to aim for a policy each 10-12 turns, so allying CSs should be top priority. At Emperor/Babylon the spy should go directly to the nearest cultural CS. You basicly do not need to steal techs ...
7) not enough scouting - you have not met all CSs.


And besides all that - why do you care about the exact finish turn that much :) ? I seriously doubt, that sub200 SV win is possible here no matter what kb says - there are not enough mountains, even if babylon is on a river, he'd have no observatory and also - there is no coast to make the cities really huge. Also emperor AI is not really rich ...

P.S. - and default focus ... Use production focus better. I see you have the tiles locked, but still ...
 
Also, why did you not settle your satellite cities next to mountains? Had the AI already expanded there?
 
dragonxxx said:
And besides all that - why do you care about the exact finish turn that much :) ? I seriously doubt, that sub200 SV win is possible here no matter what kb says
Click to expand...

I remember tommynt had a post here with a similar map with Poland (no mountain, but rivers, wheat, salt) and he finished t180+ I believe. So why not with Babylon?
 
dragonxxx said:
And some general comments after I saw the t150 save:

1) Your religion is rather useless. I don't know when you found it, but +1 happy from shrines and tithe (when you don't have FTP to spread), is meh . I'd better have a holy site instead, or pick completely different capital oriented beliefs (like +15% production, divine inspiration, reliquary). But still, when you don't have faith producing beliefs, then build a grand temple at least ... Not that I build it often myself, but I most of the time do not found religion, when I don't have faith pantheon, and I kinda don't understand why you took that pantheon - even if DF is not available, you have faith from Salt/Copper/Iron available, and you have a lot of all of these ...

2) You had the option to get Mosque/Monastery in your other cities - even if its too late to net you faith, the 220 faith from monastery on T150 will need 110 turns to pay off, but u get like 220 culture in the process as bonus ...

3) Not having gardens slows you down, that late National Epic too ...
4) Working Merchant slot instead of a mine?
5) No roads on T150, these need to be build way earlier. You lose a lot of gold because of this.
6) Too low CPT (28 per turn, when next policy is at 840 is not good). You have to aim for a policy each 10-12 turns, so allying CSs should be top priority. At Emperor/Babylon the spy should go directly to the nearest cultural CS. You basicly do not need to steal techs ...
7) not enough scouting - you have not met all CSs.


And besides all that - why do you care about the exact finish turn that much :) ? I seriously doubt, that sub200 SV win is possible here no matter what kb says - there are not enough mountains, even if babylon is on a river, he'd have no observatory and also - there is no coast to make the cities really huge. Also emperor AI is not really rich ...

P.S. - and default focus ... Use production focus better. I see you have the tiles locked, but still ...
Click to expand...

Shrine was my 4th build in cap after scout, scout, monument. I took the sun god pantheon because there was like 10 wheat/bananas, so +10 food. Also, as stated in a previous thread, my workers simply don't have time to build everything, and neither do my cities, which means I neglect faith since it seems less important than :c5science: or :c5happy: . Thanks for the tips tho, I should've really planted that GP. And at least I didn't end the game with 50 culture, like I did last time.
 
If you dont pick a faith pantheon you need to get temples and grand temple to have a religion strong enough. Or at least a faith belief like divine inspiration. +11 faith mid game just isnt enough if you want to use the religion you founded. Also tithe is really weak if you dont have fpt to spread.
 
Well, I don't understand why you need to build monument after the 2 scouts tbh - you shave just a few turns off tradition opening, but you delay granary/worker. And the shrine - it either has to be 3rd or don't build at all, as you want to get pantheon asap here.

And what about the other questions I asked in the previous post :) ? About the techpath/ academies/GS ...
 
Undefeatable said:
Shrine was my 4th build in cap after scout, scout, monument. I took the sun god pantheon because there was like 10 wheat/bananas, so +10 food. Also, as stated in a previous thread, my workers simply don't have time to build everything, and neither do my cities, which means I neglect faith since it seems less important than :c5science: or :c5happy: . Thanks for the tips tho, I should've really planted that GP. And at least I didn't end the game with 50 culture, like I did last time.
Click to expand...

No faith pantheon - major oversight. Absolutely no reason not to be churning upwards of 40 fpt with that setup. Earth mother and Divine Inspiration are so huge with this type of a game. You've got the land for it, you know you're going to be cranking out wonders. 10 food isn't going to give you extra GS's. FPT will.

If your workers can't build everything you need, you need more workers. It's just that simple.
 
To be fair, the +10 food IS more important than the Faith in the early game - but if you go for no faith pantheon, you have to gamble on getting one from the AI later in the game because chances are you won't be founding & spreading a religion... in this case, that didn't work...
 
Aibeit said:
To be fair, the +10 food IS more important than the Faith in the early game - but if you go for no faith pantheon, you have to gamble on getting one from the AI later in the game because chances are you won't be founding & spreading a religion... in this case, that didn't work...
Click to expand...

Sure, but food isn't really the problem here. If he wants to finish games quicker, what enables that? I don't think 10 food does, but I KNOW 3-4 more GS's would. Granted, extra food helps you build pop quicker which builds science quicker, but I don't think it has anywhere near the same effect.
 
Lets compare things fairly. Earth mother wouldnt have given 3 GS by itself. You will want to compare earth mother to sun god and divine inspiration to whatever he took.

Sun god isnt such a bad choice, but like i said earlier you need another source of faith then. Buildings and/or beliefs.
 
most normal science games can be finished before 210 with good play, and this is definately one of those times.
 
i played through and launched on T270.

few things:

1. map is good. all the secondary cities can be settled next to mountains. i settled Babylon in place for the river hill (looks like you moved it right a bit?)

2. my build order was scout, scout, shrine, worker (plus another one stolen from Hanoi), Great Library, National College. went for Aristocracy before Monarchy in order speed along the wonders. then 2 settlers (bought a 3rd), then ToA, then normal stuff. i'd be curious to try again with a quicker expansion and later NC

3. i was able to get 4 workers in total from Hanoi.

4. tech path was roughly pottery---> writing--> (detour for AH + Mining) philosophy--> civil service--> education--> metal casting --> astronomy --> ST --> Plastics. hit education around

5. it's easy to get a religion here. i ended up w/ desert folklore, tithe, swords to plowshares, divine inspiration (is easy to wonder-spam in the capital), and religious texts. had ~5k faith for late-game GP. bought 2 GS and 2 GE.

6. woulda been quite a bit faster but got dual DOW'd from Poland and Shoshone ~T230

7. planted 4 academies...still had like 8 other GS to bulb.

8. in general...first 100 turns were great, then gold problems/happy problems slowed things down until ideology. playing through again i'd try to get more workers, get roads up sooner.

9. i screwed up several other things too. my guess is that playing through again i could get it to 250. people better than me could surely do better.
 
Acken said:
Lets compare things fairly. Earth mother wouldnt have given 3 GS by itself. You will want to compare earth mother to sun god and divine inspiration to whatever he took.

Sun god isnt such a bad choice, but like i said earlier you need another source of faith then. Buildings and/or beliefs.
Click to expand...

By itself? No. But how many more great prophets do you generate before industrial by not having abysmal faith? And how many of those get planted for more faith?

Faith is one of those things where once you have a little of it, it's easy to get a lot of it. And once you have a lot of it, it's easy to have a ton of it. I've had games where I'm churning 100 faith per turn without even trying, just the right pantheon on the right land with the right beliefs, and you shouldn't need anywhere near that to end with faith or so for 3 GS's.
 
After looking at the map, desert folklore + Petra is a better option than earth mother due to the sheer amount of desert/flood plains, if you are going for faith that is.

Sun God may be equally effective (not sure how fast religions are taken on Emperor but if you want your non-faith pantheon to persist, you're most likely looking at Hagia Sophia + divine inspiration), but I think DF wins out here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

CGQ
[BTS] Completely puzzled by this map. I have tried multiple strategies and can't figure it out
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
CGQ
CGQ
J
Just finished my most thrilling game
Replies
0
Views
1K
Jdoug312
J
P
[C3C] General civ3 strategies - improving my game
Replies
11
Views
2K
alfa156
A
Aurelesk
Unit comparison between Civilization V and VI
Replies
17
Views
2K
Boris Gudenuf
Boris Gudenuf
S
No SOI Challenge: Game 4 (Could this be a "definitive" game?)
Replies
1
Views
573
CrazyG
C
Top Bottom