Did barbarians get a boost in BNW?

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roscoepfox

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
69
I'm not a great player, I'm a casual player. I play on a lowe level because I've not mastered the game. In fact I hadn't played in about a year until last week. I can usually win a science victory. But yesterday I installed Brave New World and I'm struggling in the start of the game.

Does BNW cause the barbarians to spawn more? Because to me its like they're all over the place. Its like a constant stream of them. My first venture into BNW I was just trying to see how it worked with the new trade routes and culture changes, but I spent more time hunting down barbs than anything else. I'm obviously going to have to adjust my style, but I'm just wondering if the expansion has turned them up to 11.
 
Barb camps are a good source of early gold, while I don't know the answer to your question, having the camps to knock out is always a plus. Especially since in BNW there is less gold on the tiles.
 
I don't know if what I'm saying is true, but isn't it since BNW that Barbarians can not only be archers or brutes, but also axemen and horsemen? I really hate the strength of the axemen and the horsemen can show up out of nothing and plunder my trade routes/pillage my improvements without me even noticing them before.
 
Peter Sagan said:
I don't know if what I'm saying is true, but isn't it since BNW that Barbarians can not only be archers or brutes, but also axemen and horsemen? I really hate the strength of the axemen and the horsemen can show up out of nothing and plunder my trade routes/pillage my improvements without me even noticing them before.
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I'm new to BNW but yeah, I noticed the axemen in my first game of it. They also seem to spawn archers earlier than I was used to and horsemen....and they spawn a LOT. I will admit I gave up in frustration on my 2nd "trial" game last night....not only were the barbs spawning faster than I felt able to cope with they were spawning camps just out of site of my measly two cities....and they had a small army of archers.
 
Barbarians get units when they plunder trade routes...this may be contributing to your sense of "more" barbs.
 
S.O.T MAHak said:
They do?!
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Yup, barbs pillaging trade route units enslave to more barbs.

And Barbs now have some more powerful units.

In addition, with the AI promoted from Chieftain level to AI Default handicap, the barbs are free to enter major AIs territory on turn 0. (Chieftain level included a handicap that barbs weren't allowed to enter the players territory for a few turns)
 
joncnunn said:
Yup, barbs pillaging trade route units enslave to more barbs.

And Barbs now have some more powerful units.

In addition, with the AI promoted from Chieftain level to AI Default handicap, the barbs are free to enter major AIs territory on turn 0. (Chieftain level included a handicap that barbs weren't allowed to enter the players territory for a few turns)
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That explains a lot of why I have been having issues with them. I'm used to a little bit of time before the barbs start showing up with archers. Usually I can have an archer or two first and start taking out the nearest camps before they become a problem.

Also I will need to get used to smaller empires or at least slower expansion. By the medieval period I'm usually able to have a reasonably dangerous military and a tech lead. Part of it I think is because in pre-BNW I could cover a lot of places in cities, have a decent population and thus generate more science.

I'm still trying to get the new trade caravan idea down. Is there a victory situation thru commerce? Because I think I'll try it, though I'd like to try a culture win first.
 
Jensonian said:
I knew turning off Barbarians was a smart decision.
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I thought about that, but it feels like wimping out. (not calling you a wimp or anything, I'd just feel that way if I turned them off.) Though I might consider it because its kind of frustrating to have so many of them running around and pillaging before you can reasonably have enough forces to fight them. Sure, you can survive, but they're going to seriously slow down or just plain ruin your game.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I've wondered if the barbs harass the AIs like they do me. Because it feels like they're all gunning for me. Only once in Civ 3 or 4 did I see a message that another civ had been destroyed by barbarians early in the game. (and I was happy to see it since it was someone near me and I knew I could retake their former capital for myself. :king:

I'm starting to wish the Great Wall worked like it did in the older version....where barbs could enter your territory once it was built. It always felt like cheating a bit, but it was worth it to know my workers weren't being picked off and that nothing was being pillaged.
 
It seems to me that once the barbs of any particular camp see you, they start to look for you and become a pain in the butt, but they most certainly harass the AI too. I often find barbarian camps with workers and settlers even, which I know aren't mine. Clearly the AI is going after them. You also get quests from CS a lot, which are a result of barbs harassing them.
 
I think they've become a bit more difficult to wipe out too. I used to e able to use one archer to wipe out a camp at range in a few turns. Now EVERY time I've tried that since BNW another barb spawns before I'm done with the camp and sometimes other barbs come running up from nowhere.
 
roscoepfox said:
I thought about that, but it feels like wimping out. (not calling you a wimp or anything, I'd just feel that way if I turned them off.)
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Funny you say that because I was hesitant at first for that exact same reason, until I was content on being a wuss and turning them off.

Now I love it and don't wanna go back. I also start in the classical era which makes worrying about the ancient era technologies a thing of the past (literally :D).

The Advanced Setup is for the player preference. Try it, and if you don't like it go back. You don't HAVE to play the default way, play so its fun for you.

For the record, you're not a wuss.:goodjob:
 
Actually I have increased barbarians on. It`s not hard as long as you prepare for it. I like it because while it slows you down it also tends to slow the AI Civs down as well. It`s also a great way to build up an experienced army early on to defend your new cities with. It also makes the early start less boring. Another reason I keep it is because barbs have always been a threat in reality until more modern times came along.

But yes, you`ll have to change your play style to cope with it.
 
I played one game with barbs turned off and it was horrible. The AI could just spam cities everywhere without their settlers getting captured and no barbs let to me neglect my military and not building any military units beside my starting warrior. I feel like I need the barbs to help me keep my military in good state. Barbs are a pain in the ass in the early game there is no denying that but believe it or not they hurt the AI more than you as the Ai tends to send out civilian units without escorts and then the barbs become really helpful and you will be glad you turned barbs on when you see a settler in an encampment close to your borders, cause those annoying barbs just saved you an annoying city to worry about.

Regarding those pesky barbarian horseman, just build them too. They can hunt together in groups for barbarian horseman and quickly kill any camps in sight. They are also very useful for barb camp quests for CS as you will get there faster than anyone else to clear those camps.
 
poekie70 said:
I played one game with barbs turned off and it was horrible. The AI could just spam cities everywhere without their settlers getting captured and no barbs let to me neglect my military and not building any military units beside my starting warrior. I feel like I need the barbs to help me keep my military in good state. Barbs are a pain in the ass in the early game there is no denying that but believe it or not they hurt the AI more than you as the Ai tends to send out civilian units without escorts and then the barbs become really helpful and you will be glad you turned barbs on when you see a settler in an encampment close to your borders, cause those annoying barbs just saved you an annoying city to worry about.

Regarding those pesky barbarian horseman, just build them too. They can hunt together in groups for barbarian horseman and quickly kill any camps in sight. They are also very useful for barb camp quests for CS as you will get there faster than anyone else to clear those camps.
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I get what you're saying and as much as I hate the super BNW barbs I have to agree. One thing I noticed, is that the ancient period seems to have slowed down. Usually by 0 AD there are more cities from me and even the AI. I am not sure but it looks like the ancient period has been extended a bit.

BUT....no joke, I watched with my scout at least SIX TO SEVEN TURNS of TWO barb archers shooting at an AI spearman right next to their camp. All were in the jungle, but when I saw them the AI Spearman had a sliver of red for health. Image wise there were only two little spearman in the unit. The barbs would bombard and there'd be one with a sliver of health. Surely he's a dead man next turn, right? NOPE. Next turn he'd be right back at the two spearman part of health. It took two barb archers plus a camp with barb warrior seven turns to kill him? On warlord level? I have to throw a bullsh*t flag on that play.
 
Overall I find them more obnoxious. The "spawn a unit when plundering a trade route" is really annoying combined with all the Horsemen you see running around wrecking stuff up.

Still, I play with Raging Barbarians on. In my opinion it balances out the early war civs a little better as they'll have a head start dealing with Barbarians. Honor becomes a little better evened out too vs. Liberty and Tradition, in the category of "all your stuff isn't pillaged". It's still not quite as good, but it's closer.
 
roscoepfox said:
I get what you're saying and as much as I hate the super BNW barbs I have to agree. One thing I noticed, is that the ancient period seems to have slowed down. Usually by 0 AD there are more cities from me and even the AI. I am not sure but it looks like the ancient period has been extended a bit.

BUT....no joke, I watched with my scout at least SIX TO SEVEN TURNS of TWO barb archers shooting at an AI spearman right next to their camp. All were in the jungle, but when I saw them the AI Spearman had a sliver of red for health. Image wise there were only two little spearman in the unit. The barbs would bombard and there'd be one with a sliver of health. Surely he's a dead man next turn, right? NOPE. Next turn he'd be right back at the two spearman part of health. It took two barb archers plus a camp with barb warrior seven turns to kill him? On warlord level? I have to throw a bullsh*t flag on that play.
Click to expand...

That' because Major AI factions get a HUGE bonus against barbarians in combat. While humans is somewhere in 30% the AIs get something like 100% boost, I dunno the exact amount. And this is why barbarians always beeline for the human's units cuz AI's units is almost impossible for barbarians to kill.

Also this is why I am so happy when axe throwers showed up they slaughter the AI units almost! If few of them latch onto the AI unit, and the AI unit chooses to fortify to heal..? That unit is going to die kinda fast xD Although AI might burn off a couple of +50 hp heals maybe.
 
One of the changes in BNW is that barbarian units that spawn can immediately take an action, unlike previous versions in which they would be immobile for 1 turn. This makes clearing camps with a low health unit slightly more dangerous.
 
I find archers (about 2 together) are the best defence in dealing with raging barbs early on until you get established. Also watch your city as barbs will try to take it.

p.s. In fact when things calm down I even cheekily keep one barb nest alive and just constantly kill it with barbs to build my archer experience up!
 
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