Are the Mayans any good against Babylon and Korea for science?

Hello. So soon I am going to be playing a game with my friends (BNW), and I was wondering if I stood a chance in science against them as the Mayans. I am more experienced, but does that close the gap of the pure science power of Korea and Babylon?

Well, its a bit more tricky than them, but its quite good too + it has way easier time with culture and religion. You just need to research Theology asap, so you start getting the great ppl.

Its early game science game is better than what Korea offers anyway, as Pyramids are quite nice early boost and you get your first academy way earlier than them too.

no, they are worse

The Mayans have an easy shot at a solid pantheon, religion, gs on turn 86 around time NC is built, basically any one wonder that they want such as colossus, petra, or forbidden palace with the GE. They can enhance the religion with the GP on turn 117, well before many civs are even able to get a religion, they can explore the ocean around turn 135 with the great admiral finding more civilizations, they can get an extra writer for the world fair bulb, they can build archers cheaper in the early game as well. they can purchase ge and gs with impressive faith in the industrial era.

Babylon and Korea are better for "science" but the Mayans I'd argue are the #2 civ that is great at everything in general. #1 is Poland. And the Mayans I would also argue have the best UB in the entire game. Pyramids as a shrine replacement? Please yes.

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In my experience, the better player will overcome the civ differences. Though the land you end up with is probably more important than anything.

Of course you have a chance against a human player. Terrain and experience are more important.

If everything was equal, Mayan are probably worse for science. But not everything is equal.

Not quite, but it's a close run thing. They're at least as quick as Babylon through to education (+2 science per city and an academy soon after Theology), and a bit faster than Korea. After that Babs and Koreas bonuses really start to kick in. You can compensate somewhat by utilising your religion and free GP to get you through Rationalism faster than the other pair can manage, bump up your CPT with some pagodas and/or mosques, or pop a writer or artist for extra culture. Also getting the key wonders will make a big difference. Head to head against the Babylonians, the Mayans can get a GE just in time to snag the Leaning Tower and suddenly both civs are generating GSs at the same rate. Babs will still get more because they don't have the Bak'tuns messing up their normal GP generation, but you can use the free GP from the wonder to snag porcelain tower and get another academy down on your way to Scientific Theory.
Your advantage in faith might be enough to yield a few more GP in the late game too.

Anyway, Mayans are a little bit slower, I think, but if you can hit Theology early and get a lot of faith going they can be competitive. Those are ifs though, Babs and Koreas speed isn't contingent on anything.

As a heavy Babylon player with a well practiced path to a pre turn 220 plastics(with all cities having built research labs) the only time I've beaten that is with Spain near GBR and Krakatoa(same game). That free GS at writing gives Babylon the ability to fart around abit in the tech tree where other civs are needing to beeline Education.

Korea requires you to work all specialist slots to really utilize them, and although you will be richer because you will be working your merchant slots you are generating great merchants. If you build the GL(to utilize the Korean UA) then the NC before any cities you can have your capital up and running ready to pump out more wonders, but the good spots may be gone by the time you come to settle your satellite cities.

I'd say you can't beat Babylon's GS generation and that is the key to getting to plastics early.

My fastest game has come as Russia, which is not known to for science. Babylon has my 2nd fastest. On the Russia game, I had Plastics and research labs up on turn 180.

On average, Babylon seems to be my favorite, but good dirt means more than the civ much of the time.

Scout where Babylon is asap, have a scout waiting outside his border. Declare war as soon as they get the GS and kill him before he is planted. Now your science is better than Babylon for sure. Or you act like a barbarian and keep pillaging the academy over and over with a fast unit like horsemen if the GS is planted.
For Korea, you aren't gonna let him reach education right? You are more experienced, sure you can rush him.
Of course, I'm just joking, they are your friends and these are dick moves. So, teach them a lesson there are some nasty strategies in this game jk

In most games, there's no need to try to snipe Nebby's initial GS. He will usually just bulb it, rather than plant an academy.

Browd said:

In most games, there's no need to try to snipe Nebby's initial GS. He will usually just bulb it, rather than plant an academy.

Click to expand...

Yup, in fact he'll instantly bulb all GS.
Babylon is really only a significant science threat in the hands of the human.

In G&K, Korea was the AI with the biggest threat to win a science victory, but the Korean AI in BNW appears to prefer to go after a new cultural victory. And Korean AI in BNW is notably slower with tech progress in BNW vs G&K. (Appears to have gotten confused by the new BNW features)

Wasn't the point of this thread that his friends use Babylon (human) and Korea (human), so this isn't about how to deal with the AI, but humans.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't think I could win on sheer possibly out sciencing them alone. So what I plan to do is set them back a bit. I'm not going to early rush them with Atlatlists, Ill be fair. There are two other friends of mine playing, Germany and Poland. I can get them to help me out with this. The Koreans are weak during the industrial era, and then ill put them back a bit, with pillaging their Academies and other GP tiles, and they'll probably lose a few cities to Poland and Germany. The Babylon player is simply awful at war, I could even beat them myself, even with the tech difference. And as they're recovering from the wars ill win.

Babylon has a great start but the real science powerhouse in terms of output is Korea going wide: liberty, rationalism/ freedom. With freedom and secularism every specialist is 1 hammer/1 food/0,5 happiness/4 science + whatever the specialist is doing. Every city that can get to 15~ish population can work 12 specialists for 30(base)+ 7(buildings) + 12(scientists)+ 24(secularism) +24(korea) + X (tile yields and wonders) = 97 base science. With modifiers every decent Korean city should produce at least 210 science + 50 for observatory and National college. Thats roughly 25% more science or 10 more citizens per city. After 15~ pop there are sharply diminishing rewards so it is usually better to found more cities than growing them higher for Korea. The biggest problem for this strategy is getting enough happiness and you would do well denying Korea luxuries and city states.