Patch Japan ...

orasis

orasis

Prince
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
441
Japan got pretty buffed out with the fall patch imo.

Samurai can build fishing boats.
Samurai upgrades to Rifleman.
Bushido has a new additional effect: +1 Culture from fishing boats and +2 Culture from atolls.

Zero no longer requires Oil :eek: and it's bonuses (Bonus vs Helicopters and Bombers (150%) have not been reduced.

Not bad, not bad at all.

What did America get?

America: American Minuteman now has an additional promotion to earn points toward Golden Ages with kills. :lol: Firaxis hates America or something :lol:
 
I've been enjoying Post-Patch Japan. Under the right circumstances they can rival Aztec for city population.
 
orasis said:
What did America get?

America: American Minuteman now has an additional promotion to earn points toward Golden Ages with kills. :lol: Firaxis hates America or something :lol:
Click to expand...

Except for the fact that Minutemen upgraded to Infantry are now Pracinhas, but better. :rolleyes:
 
Post-patch Japan is better. Just seems that giving the ability to make fishing boats would have been much more useful if given to Japanese workers. Free early fishing boats would rock and would give Japan another small boost, which may be all they need.
 
orasis said:
Japan got pretty buffed out with the fall patch imo.

Samurai can build fishing boats.
Bushido has a new additional effect: +1 Culture from fishing boats and +2 Culture from atolls.

Yeah, these are nice, small early buffs. The Samurai fishing boats can be kind of situational, though.

Samurai upgrades to Rifleman.

That's both a buff and a nerf. It's nice that the Samurai doesn't obsolete so quickly, but the trick of promoting Samurai immediately to Musketmen to get your iron back is gone. As a result, Japan is EVEN MORE reliant on iron.

Zero no longer requires Oil :eek: and it's bonuses (Bonus vs Helicopters and Bombers (150%) have not been reduced.

You have its bonuses wrong. The Zero has a bonus against fighters, unless there's some sort of glitch I'm not aware of. And you'll likely never get to use that bonus. And unfortunately the no-oil bonus is a little too little and too late to rescue a late game replacement for a unit no one uses anyway.

Japan is a good mid-tier Civ, overall. It's not GREAT (few Civs are - most are remarkably balanced), but the buffs certainly made it more of a contender.
Click to expand...
 
I agree, it would be a nice buff, but it seems that every time I start a game with new Japan, I almost never have any ocean resources. That is really frustrating. I am lucky if I get one in the capital, let alone anywhere else. Is this just my bad luck or have others seen this happening too?
 
cairnsy44 said:
I agree, it would be a nice buff, but it seems that every time I start a game with new Japan, I almost never have any ocean resources. That is really frustrating. I am lucky if I get one in the capital, let alone anywhere else. Is this just my bad luck or have others seen this happening too?
Click to expand...

The patch also fixed that, or was supposed to --Japan is supposed to have an Ocean start bias if available.
 
oh I get the coastal start, just no oceanic resources! Like I said, I could just have bad luck. Last time out as Japan, I re-started numerous times until I had an acceptable terrain. I would either have nice land and no ocean resources, or 3-4 ocean resources and flat tundra/desert. I guess I can't have my fish and eat it too.
 
Its pretty clear they have made America weak and weird on purpose.
I would guess it is a combination of political correctness and an underlying (maybe unconscious?) hatred towards those countries.
 
I guess it had more to do with just the way they forced me to play around ocean resources. The extra culture landed me the key population bonuses from Liberty and Tradition earlier than usual, "God of the Sea" kicks production up when it matters most (and isn't very competed-for, in my experience) which means lighthouses are up early on. I've just had great luck with the bonuses snowballing quickly and getting my populations exploding early on in good ways.
 
Securion said:
Its pretty clear they have made America weak and weird on purpose.
I would guess it is a combination of political correctness and an underlying (maybe unconscious?) hatred towards those countries.
Click to expand...

And aliens involved as well.
 
Navelgazer said:
I guess it had more to do with just the way they forced me to play around ocean resources. The extra culture landed me the key population bonuses from Liberty and Tradition earlier than usual, "God of the Sea" kicks production up when it matters most (and isn't very competed-for, in my experience) which means lighthouses are up early on. I've just had great luck with the bonuses snowballing quickly and getting my populations exploding early on in god ways.
Click to expand...

With regards to "God of the Sea"; Japan is suitable for Piety start when that occurs. The large number of sea resources you want for "God of the Sea" will provide Japan that large cultural bonus you want for a Piety start in your race to finish that tree before you have already enhanced your religion.
Note though that "God of the Sea" doesn't kick in until after you build the work boats but it's still more efficent to build the lighthouses first. (Unless your really have to for happiness reasons such as all nearby luxuries being in sea tiles)
 
Arms Longfellow said:
Yeah that's because their unique unit was always a jet fighter, and the game was already over by that point.
Click to expand...

Exactly. USA didn't exist until late in recorded history, so their unique stuff would be even later (until we got minutemen in V, which is still kind of late). Before V playing with USA is like playing without UU/UB in many cases. The traits (Civ III/IV) or UA (Civ V), while usually reasonably solid, isn't enough to compensate that.

But minutemen + late UU is still > very late UU AND UB, with the UU also being situational.
 
Securion said:
Its pretty clear they have made America weak and weird on purpose.
I would guess it is a combination of political correctness and an underlying (maybe unconscious?) hatred towards those countries.
Click to expand...

America in Civ5 is neither weak nor weird. The sight bonus on its own is huge for things like siege, early goody huts, warfare, settling. The minuteman buff is minor but only enhances the civ further -probably mid tier. The problem is America is the opposite of 'weird', they are so straightforward and vanilla that they are boring as hell to play - most complaints seem to be that they don't reflect the country or offer a unique gameplay experience (contrast: Aztecs for example)

America appears to have been situated as the base or default civ for those who want a simple game.How this could be construed as political correctness is beyond me.
 
With regards to "God of the Sea"; Japan is suitable for Piety start when that occurs. The large number of sea resources you want for "God of the Sea" will provide Japan that large cultural bonus you want for a Piety start in your race to finish that tree before you have already enhanced your religion.
Note though that "God of the Sea" doesn't kick in until after you build the work boats but it's still more efficent to build the lighthouses first. (Unless your really have to for happiness reasons such as all nearby luxuries being in sea tiles)
Click to expand...

Nicely said. I think a good way to look at post-patch Japan is that the combat bonus is sort of "just gravy," now. The civ is about Ocean resources, and because of the extra culture makes it also a good candidate for Liberty (which has been pretty maligned for a while now.)
 
Thing is, huge seafood start means huge capital which favors tradition. With only one or two fish however, I think there is something to be said for liberty->exploration->order.
 
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