Choosing Harald Bluetooth as a Danish leader=******ed

Allow me to be the first to correct you, then... From what I've read, all the leaders speak modern incarnations of their language (except for Rameses, who speaks modern Arabic rather than any form of Egyptian, which irritates many people) - except Nebuchadnezzar I think (he doesn't sound as though he's speaking the same language as the other leaders from now Arabic-speaking countries, so is presumably speaking some historical Mesopotamian dialect). Darius speaks Farsi. Ramkhamhaeng speaks modern Thai. Elizabeth's lines are too short (for some reason much shorter than those of other leaders - Sejong's goes on for the best part of a month before he gets round to mentioning his name) to identify whether she's intended to be speaking modern or Shakespearean-era English, although she clearly speaks with a (horribly fake) modern English accent. I've heard that former colonial accents may reflect the English of the time the colonies were established better than modern English accents do - which is why, for instance, South African, Australian and New Zealand accents resemble one another more than they resemble English, American or Canadian accents, and why American and Canadian accents are also so similar (although they too have presumably diverged since colonisation), so ironically the voice actor's native Canadian accent might have been a more authentic choice for Elizabeth than fake RP...

That sort of ruins it for me. It seems half-assed that way, and gimmicky. Although, when I play the game, it does feel gimmicky. But the whole thing is sort of amusing, I saw in an explanation video that they did it because of the importance of diplomacy in the game, but the diplomacy in Civilization has always been weak and very simplistic.

You can just attack anyone for any reason without any consequence (other than the war, of course). Especially now when your citizens don't get upset about war. There is nothing to wear you out or the opponent out. There is no casus belli system to introduce an interesting way of engaging in war politics.

Further, other than the penalty to cultural victory and the necessaity for happiness, there is no real negative consequence to large empires. It may be the difficult level I play on, but the rebels at below -20 are always weak and easy to defeat.

You try a -3 stability in Europa Universalis 3 as a united France and you see if you survive.

And why can't you trade bonus resources either? I amuse myself that Firaxis thinks their diplomacy system is so in depth and interesting, that they needed to do this full screen diplomacy view, which I for most part just zap through.

What's further annoying, is that when someone suggests a war, you cannot see if you are friends with the one they are planning to attack. I cannot check, because I am stuck in the diplomacy screen, and you cannot expect me to remember. So if I say yes, I might happen to attack someone I had declared friends and then suddenly everyone thinks I'm a dick. Yeah, thanks, Foreign Advisor, where were you when I needed you? (Also why are the advisors so useless in this game?)
 
That sort of ruins it for me. It seems half-assed that way, and gimmicky. Although, when I play the game, it does feel gimmicky. But the whole thing is sort of amusing, I saw in an explanation video that they did it because of the importance of diplomacy in the game, but the diplomacy in Civilization has always been weak and very simplistic.

It has been, but then so have many aspects of Civ gameplay, including much-loved aspects like combat, religion (particularly in its undeveloped Civ IV form) and espionage. Civ has always been first and foremost about the feel of the game, and I think the designers are spot-on that diplomacy is central to that. Civ V diplomacy has always felt much more immersive to me because of these cosmetic touches than what I've seen described as the "trade screen" of earlier Civs.

And it does have an effect, even if the language isn't quite right, that it's close. Yes, being English I notice that Elizabeth's wrong, but there are much worse offenders out there. Take the earlier Total War games, for instance - in Rome Total War all the advisors spoke with strong Australian accents, as did the units when you clicked them. Clearly Ridley Scott was closer to the mark than he realised, choosing authentic Romans in Gladiator... Then there's Medieval II, in which it's odd to start with that the English (representing the Normans immediately following the Conquest) all speak modern English with English accents (and even have an advisor called "Lady Gwendolyn"), and the limited number of voice actors chosen for the other factions mean that for no very obvious reason the Danes speak with a strong Polish accent. Simply having something that sounds, at least to my ear, as actual Japanese accents on Shogun 2 really does make a huge difference to the atmosphere.

And however anachronistic it may be, I'm thrilled that Augustus sounds Italian in Civ V (pretty sure he is actually speaking Latin, but the accent's modern - nonetheless it's better than an English or American accent, let alone an Australian one).

Further, other than the penalty to cultural victory and the necessaity for happiness, there is no real negative consequence to large empires. It may be the difficult level I play on, but the rebels at below -20 are always weak and easy to defeat.

I've only once got down to -20 - at -10 combat penalties for your units set in, so it's to be avoided. The necessity for happiness is a fairly major consequence, however, especially as in contrast to earlier Civ games (which penalised unhappiness but didn't meaningfully reward happiness - it was just there as a buffer to allow your city to grow further before you had to add more units to the garrison) every point of positive happiness brings you closer to a Golden Age (and every negative one takes you further from it).

You try a -3 stability in Europa Universalis 3 as a united France and you see if you survive.

I've noted before that Civ V seems to owe quite a lot to Total War games in some of its new elements, and this is one of them. You don't have any meaningful penalty for a lack of public order in Total War - the worst that happens is that if the city becomes too unhappy, a bunch of rebels spawn who'll wander about for a bit then dash their heads against your walls. As with the Civ V rebellion penalty, they aren't a threat to be particularly worried about. In fairness, Civ V unhappiness is much more important than public disorder in TW - there are both combat and production penalties, as well as stalled growth, at certain levels of unhappiness. Particularly with the G&K changes generally making happiness easier to manage, though, I think the vanilla unhappiness thresholds are too high, and should have been modified - perhaps penalties starting to kick in at -5, rebellion at -10. Possibly a more severe effect (cities defecting to other civs, maybe?) at -20.

And why can't you trade bonus resources either? I amuse myself that Firaxis thinks their diplomacy system is so in depth and interesting, that they needed to do this full screen diplomacy view, which I for most part just zap through.

It's a game. The point is to make it entertaining - and the leader-specific text, the graphics and dialogue do tend to do that. Other trade-screen diplomacy game systems tend to use similar distractions - before Civ IV came out, which didn't include anything but the trade screen, Total War games were already prefacing their diplomacy screen with usually humorous comments from the contacted party.

What's further annoying, is that when someone suggests a war, you cannot see if you are friends with the one they are planning to attack. I cannot check, because I am stuck in the diplomacy screen, and you cannot expect me to remember. So if I say yes, I might happen to attack someone I had declared friends and then suddenly everyone thinks I'm a dick. Yeah, thanks, Foreign Advisor, where were you when I needed you? (Also why are the advisors so useless in this game?)

They could certainly do with a few more screens and some useful info - more than the occasional random "X wants resource Y" from the foreign advisor, perhaps comments from the Science Advisor: "X already has tech Y, we should research it in order to remain competitive!" and the like. And fix the military strength calculator...
 
It's a game. The point is to make it entertaining - and the leader-specific text, the graphics and dialogue do tend to do that. Other trade-screen diplomacy game systems tend to use similar distractions - before Civ IV came out, which didn't include anything but the trade screen, Total War games were already prefacing their diplomacy screen with usually humorous comments from the contacted party.

The it's a game argument is not really something I buy when used against interesting gameplay elements. I am not saying the game should have featuer A or B because it would make it more realistic, but because realism have some interesting concepts to be incorporated into games, such as trading bonus resources, that would obviously have other uses than strategic or luxury resources.

Civilization is not just a game, it's a board game. And - Civilization V especially - has a weird focus on tactical warfare for a empire building game. Yes yes, stacks of doom was a problem earlier, but rather than going all the way down to '1 unit per tile', what about stack limits? A lot of board games use that. And seeing as Civilization already is just a digitalised (and more detailed) board game, then it might not be a bad idea to draw some inspiration from there.

I am just saying; I just wish there was more to do, and especially late-game. The game often seems to become rather boring by that point.

They could certainly do with a few more screens and some useful info - more than the occasional random "X wants resource Y" from the foreign advisor, perhaps comments from the Science Advisor: "X already has tech Y, we should research it in order to remain competitive!" and the like. And fix the military strength calculator...

I thought the idea of advisors were to be there whenever a situation popped up. I like the small makers on units and buildings and technologies from each advisor, but I wish they also included an explanation.
 
I honestly do not think Harald was a good choice. His accomplishments were pretty small (and no, he did not convert all of Denmark to Christianity - that is historically inaccurate). Perhaps his greatest accomplishment was not getting a bloody crusade on his head if that is anything. If you want a founder of the nation pick Gorm the Old, or if you want truly great rulers go with Knut the Great, Valdemar Atterdag or Margaret. Of those I would probably pick Valdemar to present Denmark. Why? He brought Denmark out of the hands of Germans and Swedes from nothing but a title and literally made the Kalmar Union possible in the first place (Margaret was his daughter and wed to the Norwegian king, whom she got a son with and used to press his claims on all of Scandinavia (since the Norwegian king was the son of the Swedish king)). However if you want someone to truly represent Viking Denmark go with Knut or Svend Forkbeard.
 
Allow me to be the first to correct you, then... From what I've read, all the leaders speak modern incarnations of their language (except for Rameses, who speaks modern Arabic rather than any form of Egyptian, which irritates many people) - except Nebuchadnezzar I think (he doesn't sound as though he's speaking the same language as the other leaders from now Arabic-speaking countries, so is presumably speaking some historical Mesopotamian dialect). Darius speaks Farsi. Ramkhamhaeng speaks modern Thai. Elizabeth's lines are too short (for some reason much shorter than those of other leaders - Sejong's goes on for the best part of a month before he gets round to mentioning his name) to identify whether she's intended to be speaking modern or Shakespearean-era English, although she clearly speaks with a (horribly fake) modern English accent. I've heard that former colonial accents may reflect the English of the time the colonies were established better than modern English accents do - which is why, for instance, South African, Australian and New Zealand accents resemble one another more than they resemble English, American or Canadian accents, and why American and Canadian accents are also so similar (although they too have presumably diverged since colonisation), so ironically the voice actor's native Canadian accent might have been a more authentic choice for Elizabeth than fake RP...

You have some serious mistakes
Allow me to correct you.

From what I've read, all the leaders speak modern incarnations of their language
Dido speaks ancient Phoenecian which is Canaanite language, and thanks to very solid Canaanite philological institutions and job they did over years to preserve each one own language, and language roots and history, and Phoenecian was just too similar to them, so, the language survived. It is so because there few languages which are brother languages to old Phoenecian, and also because it is was so smart language, that even English and Greek and Russian, and many many many others took some things from it, not only Canaanite Semitic Languages.

Cathy speaks Russian. Actually she speaks Hall, Noble russian, and modern russians do not speak so.
Nebuchadnezzar I think (he doesn't sound as though he's speaking the same language as the other leaders from now Arabic-speaking countries, so is presumably speaking some historical Mesopotamian dialect)
No, he speaks another ancient language - Akkadian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language), not actually so closely related to Arabic, and he is Nebuchadnezzar II as far as i know.
Darius speaks Farsi.
:lol:
No, my friend. He speaks Imperial Aramaic. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic) which is ancient language, actually Closest brother language to language Dido speaks! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Semitic_languages) Their Modern Relative - he ancestor to - Hebrew (very very similar to modern hebrew but not the same, and have very much differencies) , and Arabic (Arabic derrived from Aramaic, changing writing to Syriac alphabet - writing form so different and there serveral root changes, so it even less resemble ancient Aramaic). All them (Aramaic, Phoenecian, Hebrew and Arabic) are abjad semitic languages. It was official language of Persian empire, and actually most common language to it is Hebrew. Also, they have similar writing form, you can just browse about this more on forums and on wiki.
 
The it's a game argument is not really something I buy when used against interesting gameplay elements. I am not saying the game should have featuer A or B because it would make it more realistic, but because realism have some interesting concepts to be incorporated into games, such as trading bonus resources, that would obviously have other uses than strategic or luxury resources.

Civilization is not just a game, it's a board game.

It's ultimately based on a board game, so is that much of a surprise? Take Avalon Hill's Civilization (not the "Sid Meier's Civilization" board game that is itself based on the Civ games, but the one Sid originally acknowledged inspired the computer game), add a touch of Sim City, finish off with a diplomacy trade screen - and hey presto you have Civilization.

And - Civilization V especially - has a weird focus on tactical warfare for a empire building game.

No moreso than Total War has a "weird" focus on empire-building for a tactical wargame. There's no logic to such arbitrarily rigid categories. In reality most empires expand through warfare - and in reality that warfare is executed at tactical scales. If you're going to have a combat system, it makes sense for it to be tactical, just as if you're going to have an empire-building system it makes sense for it to be strategic. Strategy and tactics aren't rigidly defined by scale, as though strategy is large-scale, tactics small-scale. Strategy is your overall plan; tactics is how you get there. Both exist at all scales.

Yes yes, stacks of doom was a problem earlier, but rather than going all the way down to '1 unit per tile', what about stack limits? A lot of board games use that. And seeing as Civilization already is just a digitalised (and more detailed) board game, then it might not be a bad idea to draw some inspiration from there.

Indeed the original Civ board game had stack limits. But chess has 1UPT. Risk and Britannia have unlimited stacking. Board games are no more homogenous than computer games.

In the Civ V context, as in any specific game context, the key issue is one of how the design fits together and what change X would add/subtract. What value is there to stacking other than partially fixing the AI's abominable pathing system? There's no obvious benefit to having combat in stacks, and being able to protect ranged units with non-ranged units stacked with them makes them too powerful (as indeed does being able to stack multiple ranged units together so that you can attack the same tile with a dozen horse archers). I think there's a tendency for people to dislike stacks, and to perceive issues with 1UPT (particularly movement-related issues such as finding it dull moving units one by one everywhere), and just assume that "limited stacks" would fix both problems rather than inherit the drawbacks of each.

I've actually found myself habitually trying to shift-drag a control box (as in Total War or RTSes) over Civ units before now, and a 'control group' system that allows you to group units into formations that you can move one by one would probably be a better solution than limited stacks. The units would still be 1UPT exactly as now, you could just move them to the same area with a single click. That's an interface rather than a gameplay detail, though.

I am just saying; I just wish there was more to do, and especially late-game. The game often seems to become rather boring by that point.

This was always my experience in past Civ games: Early game you have all the fun of exploring and meeting people. Mid game you have considerations of city management and how to develop your cities and army. Late game you just end up building duplicates of everything (at least in Civ IV, because production times are so fast and the lack of any kind of building-specific maintenance cost or other drawback for having 6 million granaries meant there was no reason not to and precious little else to actually do with your hammers - this was slightly less true of other games in the series, including Civ V, because there are financial limitations on how much you can build) or setting your cities to research production, or spamming more units even if not at war because there's not really anything else to do and it keeps unhappiness down.

Civ V is actually the first Civ game that's cracked this in my view. There's always diplomatic wrangling, there's city-state influence to manipulate throughout, and the fact that AI opponents actually make an effort to win in the end game can make it tense right to the end (unless you're massively in the lead, in which case it tends to become the same rather dull "Next Turn" clickfest Civ late-games always were). It's certainly the only member of the series in which some of my best experiences have been in the late game rather than the exploration phase or during wars.

I thought the idea of advisors were to be there whenever a situation popped up. I like the small makers on units and buildings and technologies from each advisor, but I wish they also included an explanation.

Given all the options for units/buildings that would have to be fairly cursory, but there's no reason the tooltip can't do what it did in Civ IV ("The domestic advisor recommends you build this because it will help your economy"), in much the same way it will recommend you build a city for reason X or Y (although in cases where a city is recommended but it doesn't have resources or whatever you need, it will just say "I recommend you build a city here"...) The city placement advice does seem to have improved since G&K - I've noticed that I'll select a site, build a settler, and when I send him out most of the time the city placement icon will be on or next to the tile I've already selected for him. It will still suggest lots of unsuitable places on the basis that they have resources the AI doesn't know you don't need etc., but it does at least seem to pick up on most of the good spots.

Better tooltips that reflect actual playstyles ("I recommend you build a city here because it is surrounded by terrain that's good for production", for instance) would still be welcome for the benefit of less experienced players - also, if the AI could provide advice on that basis, it could also found its own cities with a similar calculation and would tend to place them better itself.

Though I was thinking of the ever-unhelpful advisor screens themselves, which could and should be a venue for basic advice that you can get other ways but more easily this way. For instance:

Military: The most demonised advisor actually already does a creditable job in terms of military strength with powers at peace, and with suggesting you should build units in City X because that's where you have your Barracks. There's probably not much more info he should provide, except perhaps "Your army is lacking in cavalry - you should produce more mounted units" type observations (and related to that, maybe "If we ally with Sidon, we get access to the Panzer!" once you have the appropriate tech and if the AI deems that tanks are something you need).

He screws up royally in his assessment of war progress, but this is an issue that needs fixing generally with the AI and is not one any Civ game has yet solved. There's hope - Civ V's combat assessment AI is about as bad as the old Total War combat assessment AIs in, say, Medieval II, and for basically the same reason (I won't declare peace even though I'm down to one city and no army because all my allies combined have a greater military strength than you, even if they aren't all at war with you and you're beating them all consistently and taking their cities"), but the system has improved in Shogun 2. So it's not an insoluble problem.

Foreign: Already occasionally gives advice of the form "We have cotton and Arabia doesn't, we should consider trading it with them", but should do so more consistently since this info isn't readily available anywhere else. Should probably advise on:

City-state relations, depending on the particular type of CS the AI determines you most need ("Our civ is unhappy and an alliance with Zurich will provide us with access to new luxuries" if happiness is getting low, "Forming an alliance with Quebec City would help alleviate food shortages in our cities" if your growth is slow etc.)

Which types of deal a civ is perceived likely to accept ("Our relations with Arabia are good, and we have reached a point where we should consider offering a Declaration of Friendship")

What to do about a Civ's attitudes ("Relations with Japan have deteriorated; we should consider offering them tribute as a sign of good faith")

Reminders on current status of some deals ("We have promised to stop spying on Siam")

Espionage advice targeted at specific concerns with each civ ("I don't trust the Huns. We may want to station an agent in one of their cities to gather intelligence on their movements", "Russia has technologies we need, we may want to inflitrate their research labs").

Yes, it's a lot, but arguably more of Civ gameplay, and certainly more of the strategic decision-making, comes down to foreign relations and how they're managed than any of the other advisors' spheres of interest - science and in some contexts military development may be more important, but the decisions you make regarding them tend to be rather more trivial.

Also, an important reason to focus more attention on the advisors than they might seem to warrant is that they're our window on the "AI perspective". The AI plays as though following the advice it's given; improving the way the AI calculates and presents its advice, and the type of advice it presents, amounts to improving the way the AI plays.

Science: Should actually offer some advice...

Domestic: Religious advice ("Our people are sufficiently devout that we can send a missionary to convert the heathens", "The people of Paris yearn for a cathedral", "If we spread our religion to additional cities we will get [reminder of Founder Beliefs]")

Targeted city production advice, based on the assessment the AI is already capable of regarding a city's focus ("Paris has buildings that strengthen our economy. We should develop trading posts in the surrounding area", "London can produce Great Scientists. If we build a University in this city, we will be able to hire more scientist specialists and generate these Great People faster". "Tangier has desert tiles around it, and we have the knowledge to build Petra").

Economic advice ("We are making money!" isn't very helpful...)

Textual city-placement advice that just translates the existing city-placement advice.
 
As about your misconceptions i find it actually serious - and Civ in my eyes shoul be even more teaching game - about history, traditions, linguistics. So severe mismatch like Swedish Helsinki (good that they got rid from Russian Kyiv :-D ) are bad. But rest is not as important as balance which fuels never ending interest to Civ series .. because there much things to try and combine and create for players themselves
 
You have some serious mistakes
Allow me to correct you.


Dido speaks ancient Phoenecian which is Canaanite language, and thanks to very solid Canaanite philological institutions and job they did over years to preserve each one own language, and language roots and history, and Phoenecian was just too similar to them, so, the language survived. It is so because there few languages which are brother languages to old Phoenecian, and also because it is was so smart language, that even English and Greek and Russian, and many many many others took some things from it, not only Canaanite Semitic Languages.

Fair enough - when I read that most of the languages spoken were modern, it was pre-G&K. There was however a long discussion regarding Attila that appeared to conclude his language is the modern form of Chuvash.

Cathy speaks Russian. Actually she speaks Hall, Noble russian, and modern russians do not speak so.

That's a nice touch. It's a shame they didn't put the same effort into Elizabeth (she even uses the "royal we" that is an affectation of the current monarch and would not have been used by Elizabeth I); I suppose there aren't any stereotypes of Russian monarchy among English-speaking audiences that they felt the need to pander to.

No, he speaks another ancient language - Akkadian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language), not actually so closely related to Arabic, and he is Nebuchadnezzar II as far as i know.

Or to put it another way, he does indeed speak a historical Mesopotamian dialect as I suggested...

:lol:
No, my friend. He speaks Imperial Aramaic.

I get the sense Darius was a bad example to use...
 
That's a nice touch. It's a shame they didn't put the same effort into Elizabeth (she even uses the "royal we" that is an affectation of the current monarch and would not have been used by Elizabeth I); I suppose there aren't any stereotypes of Russian monarchy among English-speaking audiences that they felt the need to pander to.

Well...actually the "royal we" has been around for ages...I'm sure from the time of the earliest autocrats....It was intended to convey the idea that the supreme ruler was speaking from a higher authority... an authority higher than even himself.... So I'm not so sure it should be regarded as an affectation.

I'm not sure when the British monarchy started using it... but Queen Victoria certainly did ...as in: "We are not amused"... ;)

And I see from Wikipedia there is a Latin expression for it....pluralis maiestatis...."majesterial plural"

Here's the preamble for proclamations in Finnish by Alexander III....for modern ears, I don't think you even have to know all the Finnish words to detect the extreme pomposity...and especially when it's in the language of such an egalitarian society as that of Finland:

Me Aleksander Kolmas, Jumalan Armosta, koko Venäjänmaan Keisari ja Itsevaltias, Puolanmaan Zsaari, Suomen Suuriruhtinas, y.m., y.m., y.m.
Teemme tiettäväksi;


...."We, Alexander the Third, by the Grace of God, Tsar and Sovereign to All the Russian Lands, Tsar to the Lands of Poland, Arch Duke of Finland, etc., etc., etc.,

Announce;".."announce" is in the first person plural grammatical form....literally the words mean: "we make known:"
 
Well...actually the "royal we" has been around for ages...I'm sure from the time of the earliest autocrats....It was intended to convey the idea that the supreme ruler was speaking from a higher authority... an authority higher than even himself.... So I'm not so sure it should be regarded as an affectation.

I'm not sure when the British monarchy started using it... but Queen Victoria certainly did ...as in: "We are not amused"... ;)

In a post-divine right era it can certainly be considered an affectation. And yes, Victoria is the obvious example, although is there actually any evidence she did say that (and that she used the plural when doing so)? She's certainly on record as using the conventional singular pronoun in other contexts (as in a letter to the Viceroy of India demanding equality of religion be respected on the basis that "Her Majesty is aware of the importance of the comfort her religion provides her").

Hmm, actually I've just found a reference to this that suggests it's been taken out of context - she was actually referring to a group of women rather than to herself by the "royal we".

In the case of Elizabeth I, there's of course her famous speech with the line "I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman..." I've seen one source that contends that she uses the royal we in the opening sentence "We have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit ourselves to armed multitudes", but that seems to be a usage referring to the institution of monarchy generally rather than herself personally - as she immediately follows with the singular "I" for the rest of the speech (with a single exception).

So there appears to at least have been a formal convention for the usage of "we" that wasn't habitual for the monarch, and doesn't seem likely to have been used for a phrase like "We are pleased to meet you".

I'll grant that it appears the convention has a longer history than I was aware, at least.
 
The Danish constitution of 1849 opens with: »Vi Frederik den Syvende, af Guds Naade Konge til Danmark, de Venders og Goters, Hertug til Slesvig, Holsten, Stormarn, Ditmarsken, Lauenborg og Oldenborg, Gjøre vitterligttor Alle: ...«, which opens with the royal we.

The thing is, by Queen Victoria's time, the royal we had become less used in less formal ceremonies, and even in some formal situations. Previously, it had been very commonly used among the monarchs of Europe.

Part of the reason Louis XIV's statement « L'État, c'est moi » is so famous is because he uses « moi » rather than « nous ». Part of the reason to use 'we' was to make it more about the office, being the king of the land, rather than necessarily ego. By using « moi » you essentially personalises it all into one person.

As President Joshua Bartlet explains in The West Wing episode, "Take This Sabbath Day":

Father Cavanaugh: I don't know how to address you. Would you prefer Jed or Mr. President?
Bartlett: To be honest, I'd prefer Mr. President.
Father Cavanaugh: That's fine.
Bartlett: You understand why, right?
Father Cavanaugh: Do I need to know why?
Bartlett: It's not ego.
Father Cavanaugh: I didn't think it was.
Bartlett: There's certain decisions I have to make while I'm in this room. Do I send troops into harm's way. Which fatal disease gets the most research money.
Father Cavanaugh: Sure.
Bartlett: It's helpful in those situations not to think of yourself as the man but as the office.

It is not as sentimental and humble as that, obviously, but it is along the same idea.
 
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