The Strengths of each G&K Civ

troc

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so I recently purchased G&K. I want to know how to get the most out of all the new civs. For example, how can I really benefit from the Mayan free great people. Or how are Carthage's free harbors any good? (these are examples).

If possible, try to give suggestions for all the new civs...
 
Maya : Build monument, research pottery, build their pyramid thing, research writing, start great library, research calendar, research philosophy, pick 15% ancient/classical wonder pantheon (optional), choose liberty policies, use free settler to make 2nd city which starts pyramid & monument, use great library free tech on drama, research theology. Finish this by turn 60 on standard and you'll get your free person with Baktun 4, and 5 and 6 are really close by. I build oracle next, then between maya bonus and liberty finisher I get great engineers to use on hagia and mosque - I wait until a great prophet spawns naturally before rushing the Hagia, then instantly have an enhanced religion plus missionaries with 3x usage. I can consistently do this on Emperor level
 
maya, beeline to theology
carthage, build cities on coast near fish
spain, hope you get natural wonders nearby
austria, do city state quests and get patronage
celts, keep forests around until you don't need the free faith anymore
ethiopia, stay small and culture heavy

i think i'm forgetting some...
 
Hmm...
The strengths of the Dutch, reasonably good if you like to play higher levels or micromanage trade. The polder is a lovely improvement that provides alot of food, and upgraded sea beggars are nasty. Weaknesses include the fact the UA is limited and you have to Live with .marshes till guilds. Maya is a science powerhouse, with its shrine replacement giving beakers, however the UU is a bit weak with few redeeming features. The UA gives free great people However you can only pick one once, and as time goes on it the gaps between great people widen. Furthermore each great person gained this way increases the cost of future great people. Cathages free harbours are a wonderful way to earn money fast, as well as gain extra hammers, however you should neglect building roads all together at your own peril if your on a contested landmass. UUs are good, and while mountain crossing can win.you wars,.in most games its useless. Will get to the others later, its not easy typing this on a phone
 
Dutch: Focus on trading. Trade away your luxuries for cash, use that to eventually buy a sizeable army and buildings first. Once you get Polders, watch your cities explode in size. Also has a good naval game due to the amazing Sea Beggar, which is the strongest ship in the game. Well OK, second to a Destroyer upgraded from a Sea Beggar.
Celts: Rush an early religion, and use said religion to your advantage based on the terrain around you. Might want to go for holy warriors in order to field a large army. Lacks a true speciality beyond that.
Maya: Beeline for Theology in order to get them Great People ASAP. Try to get a religion that grants science as well. From that point on, use the flexibility of the GP to your advantage. An early Admiral for example can scout the world for you, an early Prophet helps you settle a religion, work with the surroundings.
Byzantium: Eeeeeh...really this civ lacks focus to me. Try to get religious buildings out, hope the Mayans, Ethiopians and Celts aren't in the game and work with that bonus belief, really. Their UU...well the ship is awesome but can't take cities like the Tririmere can, and the Cataphract is just...eeeeh.
Carthage: Messenger of the Gods + Wheel Technology + 3/4 free harbor cities = Awesome. That's really what you want to be going for. Really the harbors are the bread and butter of what Carthage is, for like Byzantium, it's UU's aren't anything special. The ability to cross mountains however is delightful. Might be a reason to go for the Great General for the Liberty finisher, depending on how important it'll get.
Ethiopia: Turtle up, get early religion and faith...and adapt. Ethiopia isn't the civ for warmongers, but it can go for every other victory condition depending on the rest of the map and the enemies around you. The 20% bonus if you're smaller can be huge, especially if you try to go mostly peaceful.
Sweden: Play friendly until the Rennesaince. At that point, go warmonger, get Great Generals like no tomorrow which can then be donated to City States for HUGE benefits. Their UU's are THAT good, they can pull this off beautifully.
Austria: Hoard money. Buy City States. Cheese out. Really this is probably the least fun to play with and against, I fear.
Huns: War. That's all.
 
Hmm...
The strengths of the Dutch, reasonably good if you like to play higher levels or micromanage trade. The polder is a lovely improvement that provides alot of food, and upgraded sea beggars are nasty. Weaknesses include the fact the UA is limited and you have to Live with .marshes till guilds. Maya is a science powerhouse, with its shrine replacement giving beakers, however the UU is a bit weak with few redeeming features. The UA gives free great people However you can only pick one once, and as time goes on it the gaps between great people widen. Furthermore each great person gained this way increases the cost of future great people. Cathages free harbours are a wonderful way to earn money fast, as well as gain extra hammers, however you should neglect building roads all together at your own peril if your on a contested landmass. UUs are good, and while mountain crossing can win.you wars,.in most games its useless. Will get to the others later, its not easy typing this on a phone

Now I'm back at my computer, i might do this properly

Austria - Haven't played them much outside of "Into the Renaissance" so cannot give a very accurate picture of them. But their UA is clearly one of the most powerful in the game, and probably deserving of a re-balance, perhaps increasing costs exponentially to marry into a citystate?

Byzantium - Its UA means its flexable, it can adapt to whatever conditions the map throws at you. The downside is of course, you have to found a religion, and your other uniques don't help much in that regard. I personally think the Dromon is an A class UU, it is ranged and can easily support your land units and dominate the water, park one in a city, to get an extra bombardment a full three eras before you get the Gallesess. Even Mighty Carthage will be shaking against a fleet of Dromons. Held off a hunnic invasion by simply using Dromons a few games back. the C - units, lets call them Armoured Ponies since I cant spell it, hold the interesting ability unique to other mounted units of getting terrain bonuses. As well as this they have higher attack. Alas the terrain bonuses and the bonus v naval dont upgrade. Basically the problem most people find with Byzantium is that the UU's doesn't match the UA very well

Carthage - Their UA is dual barreled. The Harbour part eliminates the need for roads, saving you a significant investment in gold, and allowing your cities to be connected up at the advent of the wheel. However the cost in this is you dont get the other benefit of roads, the movement cost reduction. This could make fighting and resupplying a war with a long supply line very difficult. Yet the gold increases are significant and powerful. Also you get increased hammers from sea resources, and seeing as Carthage starts on the sea, this will usually come into play. Mountian Crossing is a bit hit and miss, and will not likely come into play in a majority of maps. But if you can use it, it can often be a game changer. Protip, you can build roads over mountians if your willing to sacrifice the workers. The Elephant has a nice amount of bonuses and is a very useful horseman replacement, however its Terror promotion doesnt transfer over. The Quegmarine is a great unit for controlling the seas, but will need support or numbers if it wishes to take cities.

Celts - Havent played them much, so cant comment.

Dutch - Their UA is for advanced players and micromanagers, and for higher difficulty levels where the AI has more gold. If you do not actively play the trading game then you will find their UA nowhere near as good. Also, the benefits are rather focused to the start, being less useful in the later game. The UU upgrades into a monster destroyer. The Polder is a great improvement, however the downside is you wont always get Marsh starts as the Dutch, and you have to leave the marshes unimproved till Guilds, which can be annoying. The Sea Begger upgrades to absolutly awesome destroyers, and are powerful when propperly supported by Frigates

Ethiopia - I think this is the only civ that really punishes you for expanding, well that and India. The UA encorages you to go tall. And so if your a conquorer its best to pick another civ. Though I did have a good conquest game as Ethiopia, I ended up raising tons of cities, though. The UB is, in my mind, the best UB of the expansion. It guarantees you a religion, and at that, unless your playing at deity, first or second pick. Just War is a good religious pick, because it really complements your UA. The UU is an interesting one. Be warned though, while it may be strong around your capital, I've read posts stating that it actually looses strength below when a very far distant from the capital. Though I have not experianced this myself

Huns - Despite being a militarily focused Civ, their UA is focused not on millitary but on production. You can use this production to, of course produce millitary units, or you could use it to produce wonders. The UU's make you want to use your extra hammers for assault though, with the Battering Ram being exceptionally powerful in taking early cities, and the Horse Archer being useful to pepper the enemy cities. However despite this, it lacks a bronze age melee unit, having to use warriors till Civil Service or Ironworking, which for some might be a downfall. The UU's are also very early, and this will limit conquest a little.

Maya - On the outset, the UA seems very powerful, but what the description does not say is that you can only really pick one great person once (i.e, one scientist, one general), and that each one you do pick makes others more expensive. Some may consider this a downside, but really, I don't. The UU, I find, is not really that special. Sure its cheaper, sure it comes a tech earlier, but Archery isn't that expensive. it has no other redeeming qualities. The UB however is another story; and is the only UB to grant you extra science, it can be a real boost in the early game, because most people aiming for a religion make the shrine their second build. This makes the maya a strong science civ, in contention with Korea and Babylon.

I think I've got them all, I might have missed one. But that is the strengths and weaknesses of each of the new civs.
 
Maya - The UU, I find, is not really that special. Sure its cheaper, sure it comes a tech earlier, but Archery isn't that expensive. it has no other redeeming qualities.

Their UU is awesome is if you build an archer first instead of a scout and the archer upgrades to a composite bowman via a ruin.
 
Austria, Celts, Ethiopia, Huns and Mayans are faceroll-easy. Byzantium, Sweden, Carthage and Netherlands (and Spain if you didn't have the DLC) make you work a little harder "at times" and/or require "preferable starts".
 
Maya - On the outset, the UA seems very powerful, but what the description does not say is that you can only really pick one great person once (i.e, one scientist, one general), and that each one you do pick makes others more expensive.

If you get it early enough, it'll actually reset. Baktun 14 starts after 2012, so if you got theology in time for celebration 7, then baktuns 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13 would use all 7 types of people and for 14 you can pick anything.

whats interesting (intended?) is that once it 'rolls over', the 1-person limit is removed. When I have theology in time for baktun 4, I have to follow the rule for 4 through 10, but for 11, 12, 13 and 14 I can pick 4 engineers if I want.

The increased cost is a drawback, but beelining it so early does let you sink an academy way early, or explore with an admiral like you said, or just adapt as needed. I could very early on have 4 prophets spawn (1 naturally from 200 faith if I wait for it first, 1 from hagia, 1 from liberty, 1 from a baktun) but I normally just do two - but you could potentially have an enhanced religion + spread it to 8 foreign cities very fast
 
I've just completed a Hun game, and found it to be fairly boring with no UB or noticeable UA. Both their UUs are very early, and come with some annoying issues. The Ram replaces the spearman, can't attack melee units, and has a penalty on defense... meaning you are forced to escort them with warriors. I was only able to churn out a couple of them, and once they arrived at their destination they were nearly obsolete. The plus side is they do some crazy damage to cities. The horse archer is pretty fun, but is also replaced fairly quickly. Maybe playing on a speed slower than standard would help.

I wasn't really able to take advantage of the +1 production in pastures due to the game starting me out in the middle of a jungle surrounded by desert. :undecide:
 
I think winning with Spain is harder than any civ was in vanilla. Does anyone else find this the same?

I would say the opposite. Scout like crazy, tech up to optics (if necessary so you can settle anywhere close), find a natural wonder, buy a settler, and SETTLE THAT NATURAL WONDER at all costs, buying tiles as necessary.

If you are fortunate enough to catch one of the faith-generating natural wonders, you have just won the religion game.

Then tech up to Chivalry, Gunpowder, and Chemistry, and unleash renaissance-era military armageddon.

I've just completed a Hun game, and found it to be fairly boring with no UB or noticeable UA. Both their UUs are very early, and come with some annoying issues. The Ram replaces the spearman, can't attack melee units, and has a penalty on defense... meaning you are forced to escort them with warriors. I was only able to churn out a couple of them, and once they arrived at their destination they were nearly obsolete. The plus side is they do some crazy damage to cities. The horse archer is pretty fun, but is also replaced fairly quickly. Maybe playing on a speed slower than standard would help.

I wasn't really able to take advantage of the +1 production in pastures due to the game starting me out in the middle of a jungle surrounded by desert.

I would say that, depending on the map, you need to prioritize bronze working and go after ANYONE nearby, including city-states. Two rams is more than enough for your garden variety ancient-era CS. With some lucky scouting you can also get a free warrior > ram upgrade from a ruin. Since the horse archers don't require horses :)crazyeye: ), get the wheel and use your HAs to escort the rams.
 
I am playing as Netherlands in a game right now. They are an economic powerhouse. With a tradition opening I sold all my luxuries, stayed happy and bought settlers so fast the other civs think I'm settling too aggressively. My advice is to get Navigation and iron. I have 6 frigates and 6 sea beggars and am owning the seas and all coastal cities.

Unfortunately I did not spawn near any marsh tiles and there are none in any of cities (nearest was too far to settle). So i have not even been able to use polders. But I am already way ahead. It does take some attention to trade, but very impressive civ!
 
I think winning with Spain is harder than any civ was in vanilla. Does anyone else find this the same?

Spain is hands down the best civ in the game at this point if you play on quick or standard. Build 3 scouts to start spread out and spend your first 500 gold on a settler and rush it to the first natural wonder u find.

Take the natural wonders pantheon which your ua double the faith for 8 faith for each natural wonder!. Try to settle a 2nd and 3rd natural wonder.

Take Tithe as your founder and holy warriors and pagodas should win you the game. Ive had games where i was making 50 to 60 faith a turn with spain. Ive never lost with them online in ffa's and I usually find 2 natural wonders first and only 1 if im really really unlucky.
 
The ones that I've played more than once or twice:

Carthage: Easily my favorite of the new civs, particularly on watery maps (Large Islands works perfectly for them). On anything up through emperor I've had a ton of success with starting build order of monument, shrine, Great Library, and then using the GL to grab Philosophy & build The Oracle. Go through the Liberty tree to net the free settler + worker, and you should be able to save up enough gold to purchase another settler by the time the Oracle's done.

You obviously want to keep your cities on the coastline to take advantage of those free harbors, and whenever possible to grab multiple sea resources for each city (my record is 6--that city was a beast). As far as religion goes, Messengers of the Gods should be your default, although if my starting island has a ton of sea resources surrounding it I'll often go with God of the Sea (+1 hammer/work boat) instead. Once you've got the two wonders out of the way in your capital, your next 3-4 builds there should all be q-remes to defend against the inevitable AI invasion fleet which has probably already set sail. I use them defensively at first, then swing over to the offense once I can get some galleas into the water.

Honestly, Carthage on a Large Islands map almost feels like cheating. :cool:

Spain: Spain can present a few broken starts when you stumble upon the Great Barrier Reef and/or other natural wonders in the very early game (I've got a screenshot somewhere of me sitting there with 1000 gold on turn 4 of a Standard length game), but the flip side is that you can really get screwed if you invest the necessary production in scout units and don't find a wonder. With a "super start" it's practically a guaranteed win, but when you miss out on the big wonder bonus Spain can be very difficult to regain your momentum with--the UA is entirely tied to those wonders, and your UUs don't come into play for a long time.

Speaking of those unique units, once you get to them they are pretty swell. Conquistadors are absolutely built for Terra type maps, coming into play right around the time you're exploring the "new world", and they'll make settling those unexplored continents a breeze. Oh, word from the wise--be careful about wandering into ancient ruins with your conquistadors, as nothing sucks quite as hard as having your unit "upgraded" to a cavalry right before you go to settle that sweet city site. As far as the Tercio go, I see a lot of people downplay its usefulness, but what it does give you is a nice "jack of all trades" type melee unit for the early gunpowder years--just as strong as a musketman against most foes, but getting a bonus against the still-dangerous mounted units.

Assuming that you do nab a wonder or two within your early borders, you pretty much have to go with the pantheon which adds +4 faith per wonder, which combined with Spain's UA that grants double everything on worked wonder tiles pretty much assures you of being a religious powerhouse in your game. Add that to the follower belief which allows you to buy pre-industrial units with faith and a religious building like the Pagoda to increase happiness and you can steamroll anyone unfortunate enough to have started near you...then bide your time waiting for the oceanic voyages to come into play, sneak a city or two onto other continents by using your conquistadors, and use them as a base of operations to raid the new neighbors (be it religious or military raiding).

Sweden: Plain and simple: on difficulty levels below Emperor, you will be nearly invincible as Sweden if Greece and Austria are not in your game, and close to it even with them. Build enough ancient/medieval units to defend your initial expansion, rush to a religion, and then spread that faith to city states like there's no tomorrow...because once your great people come into play, those city states will basically become puppet cities for you, only without the happiness hit and with their respective bonuses. +90 influence to a city state before the Industrial Era is pretty much unfair, and oh yeah--by the time the Industrial Era rolls around you're going to be sitting pretty with an army of Caroleans and cannon/artillery running amok through everybody's town squares.

Really, the biggest challenge with Sweden is just grabbing that initial 3-6 city empire and then defending it long enough to hit your stride. With a wonder here or there and some specialists toiling away in your cities, you should start popping natural great persons pretty quickly, and then each city state you buy off with one makes it that much easier to get to the next one; I like to focus on the maritime ones first, to increase the food supply in my cities which leads to more specialist slots being used which leads to more great people...well, you get the picture.

Once you get to the Caroleans, they're just too sweet not to use. For a really neat trick, try to stack a city with Heroic Epic, Al Hambra, Brandenburg Gate, and the usual barracks + armory + military academy...you'll be building brand-new Caroleans who have Drill I-III, March, and your pick of another promotion right from the start!

I think most people look at Sweden's UA & assume they're geared towards a diplomatic victory, but in truth with all the bonuses you reap from basically owning every city state on the map by the late mid-game + the power of your Carolean rush, Sweden is a very flexible civ which can achieve any type of victory with relative ease.
 
I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud, but Huns for me was meh... dumb. I really enjoyed playing Austria and Carthage though, and the Dutch are amazing on water maps. Mayans were cool too, just hard to get used to those insequential great people, especially if you are used to spamming only certain types of GP's, like scientists or engineers.
 
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