10 New City States?

limluigi · Jun 13, 2013

We now have two city-states each from both Canada and Australia...do you think that there is something more to this, like possibly making them a full-fledged civ, or is Firaxis just trolling with us?

Eagle Pursuit · Jun 13, 2013

While there does seem to be a sort of tradition of making city-states into civs, I don't think that having a city-state from a country predicates that country becoming a civ.

AbsintheRed · Jun 13, 2013

Yeah.
If anything, adding a second city-state for Australia and Canada means that they won't plan to include them as full civs, not even in a potential third expansion or DLCs.
And thank god for that, both would be terrible choices for a full civ

kaspergm · Jun 13, 2013

AbsintheRed said:
And thank god for that, both would be terrible choices for a full civ

Well we disagree on that, I would have like to see Canada in particular, and possibly also Australia, but I think the reason we now see multiple CS for these is rather that they are NOT planning to include them, and given the size of these countries, it makes sense to have several CS from them.

durfal · Jun 13, 2013

Countries with a lot of players that aren't included in the civs themselves seem to be getting multiple citystates. It's just marketing to get those people also still involved with the game.
Belgium (Antwerp, Brussels), Switzerland (Geneva, Zürich), Italy (Milan, Genoa, Florence) and now Canada (Quebec, Vancouver) and Australia (Melbourne, Sydney)

TheMarshmallowBear · Jun 13, 2013

Also, do remember that both Cetls and Sweden had two city states cities (Dublin, Edinburgh, as well as Helsinki and Stockholm) that were then replaced and added under their respective city lists.

God of Kings · Jun 13, 2013

durfal said:
Countries with a lot of players that aren't included in the civs themselves seem to be getting multiple citystates. It's just marketing to get those people also still involved with the game.
Belgium (Antwerp, Brussels), Switzerland (Geneva, Zürich), Italy (Milan, Genoa, Florence) and now Canada (Quebec, Vancouver) and Australia (Melbourne, Sydney)

Malaysia now has both Kuala Lumpur and Malaka.

TheKingOfBigOz said:
Also, do remember that both Cetls and Sweden had two city states cities (Dublin, Edinburgh, as well as Helsinki and Stockholm) that were then replaced and added under their respective city lists.

Denmark's inclusion caused Oslo and Copenhagen to be re-assigned as Quebec City and Sydney, respectively.

Soon enough, Toronto may appear as a city-state.

Menzies · Jul 4, 2013

Does anybody know the final few city states since the last patch? These are what we know:

Maritime:
Cape Town - Light Orange
Quebec City - Blue
Ragusa - Middle Cyan
Sydney - Middle Blue
Manila - Light Green
Mombasa - Green
Ormus - Grey: Replacement for Jakarta
Panama City - Light Yellow: Replacement for Rio de Janeiro
Riga - Cyan: Replacement for Venice
Vancover - Purple: Replacement for Lisbon
Ur - Light Purple: New Addition
Byblos - Middle Purple: New Addition

Cultured:
Monaco - Purple
Yerevan - Peach
Prague - Blue
Milan - Light Orange
Kuala Lumpur - Yellow
Brussels - Light Blue
Florence - Cyan
Bucharest - Light Green
Bratislava - White: Replacement for Warsaw
Kabul - Green: New Addition
Kyzyl - Middle Cyan: New Addition
Kiev - Middle Blue: New Addition
Buenos Aires - Light Purple: Addition

Mercantile:
Cahokia - White
Genoa - Middle Cyan
Hong Kong - Blue
Tyre - Green
Zanzibar - Light Blue
Antwerp - Purple
Colombo - Light Purple
Singapore - Light Yellow
Zurich - Grey
Samarkand - Middle Blue: New Addition
Malacca - Cyan: New Addition
Antananarivo - Peach, Replacement for Marrakesh

Militaristic:
Belgrade - Green
Sidon - Middle Purple
Hanoi - Light Purple
Valletta - Yellow
Budapest - Grey
Almaty - Light Orange
Sofia - Light Green: New Addition
Mbanza-Kongo - Cyan: New Addition

Religious:
Geneva - Middle Blue
La Venta - Cyan
Lhasa - Light Green
Jerusalem - White
Wittenberg - Light Purple
Vatican City - Light Yellow
Kathmandu - Middle Purple: Type changed from Cultured

Giskler · Jul 4, 2013

Mogadishu is maritime and Ife is religious. Thats 13-13-12-8-8 .... I must have missed one when I looked through the files. I'll have another look when I get home.

Menzies · Jul 4, 2013

Giskler said:
Mogadishu is maritime and Ife is religious. Thats 13-13-12-8-8 .... I must have missed one when I looked through the files. I'll have another look when I get home.

Can you check their colours as well, for completeness sake if nothing else.

kaspergm · Jul 4, 2013

Melbourne would probably be the last Mercantile city state.

Spoiler :

Btw. my Word tells me that there are 55 instances of "/MinorCivType" in this document, and 55 = 13+13+13+8+8!

Menzies · Jul 4, 2013

kaspergm said:
Melbourne would probably be the last Mercantile city state.

Spoiler :

<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BRATISLAVA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BRATISLAVA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BUDAPEST</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BUDAPEST</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_GENEVA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_GENEVA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_RIGA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_RIGA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_GENOA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_GENOA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_FLORENCE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_FLORENCE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_RAGUSA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_RAGUSA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_SYDNEY</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_SYDNEY</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_QUEBEC_CITY</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_QUEBEC_CITY</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BUCHAREST</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BUCHAREST</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BELGRADE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BELGRADE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BRUSSELS</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BRUSSELS</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MONACO</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MONACO</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_KATHMANDU</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_KATHMANDU</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_HANOI</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_HANOI</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_LHASA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_LHASA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ALMATY</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ALMATY</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_KUALA_LUMPUR</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_KUALA_LUMPUR</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_SINGAPORE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_SINGAPORE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_PANAMA_CITY</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_PANAMA_CITY</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_CAPE_TOWN</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_CAPE_TOWN</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_SIDON</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_SIDON</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_TYRE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_TYRE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ANTWERP</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ANTWERP</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_CAHOKIA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_CAHOKIA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_COLOMBO</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_COLOMBO</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_HONG_KONG</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_HONG_KONG</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ORMUS</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ORMUS</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_JERUSALEM</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_JERUSALEM</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_LA_VENTA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_LA_VENTA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_VANCOUVER</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_VANCOUVER</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MANILA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MANILA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ANTANANARIVO</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ANTANANARIVO</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MILAN</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MILAN</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MOMBASA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MOMBASA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_PRAGUE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_PRAGUE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_VALLETTA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_VALLETTA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_VATICAN_CITY</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_VATICAN_CITY</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_WITTENBERG</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_WITTENBERG</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_YEREVAN</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_YEREVAN</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ZANZIBAR</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ZANZIBAR</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_ZURICH</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_ZURICH</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_SAMARKAND</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_SAMARKAND</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MALACCA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MALACCA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MOGADISHU</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MOGADISHU</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BYBLOS</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BYBLOS</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_KYZYL</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_KYZYL</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_IFE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_IFE</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_KIEV</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_KIEV</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_BUENOS_AIRES</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_BUENOS_AIRES</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MBANZA_KONGO</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MBANZA_KONGO</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_KABUL</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_KABUL</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_SOFIA</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_SOFIA</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_UR</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_UR</CityName>
</Row>
<Row>
<MinorCivType>MINOR_CIV_MELBOURNE</MinorCivType>
<CityName>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MELBOURNE</CityName>
</Row>

Ah, missed Melbourne. It is a bit of a forgettable backwater though. So it does seem that it is 13-13-13-8-8. Now, if you search for a file called Civ5minorCivilizations.xml you should be able to find one with the colour values in them. They'll look something like:

<ID>0</ID>
<Type>MINOR_CIV_PERTH</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_PERTH</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_PERTH</ShortDescription>
<Adjective>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_PERTH_ADJ</Adjective>
<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_PERTH_TEXT</Civilopedia>
<DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_MINOR_WHITE</DefaultPlayerColor>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_PURPLE</ArtDefineTag>
<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_EUROPEAN</ArtStyleType>
<ArtStylePrefix>EUROPEAN </ArtStylePrefix>
<ArtStyleSuffix>_EURO</ArtStyleSuffix>
<MinorCivTrait>MINOR_TRAIT_CULTURED</MinorCivTrait>

The key point is the "<DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_MINOR_PURPLE</DefaultPlayerColor>" part. Can you find the colours for Melbourne (which we probably already know actually), Ife and Mogadishu?

kaspergm · Jul 4, 2013

We should know Melbourne, it was in one of the screenshots. I haven't got the update files, however, so I can't find the colours for you.

BornInTheLoo · Jul 4, 2013

Menzies said:
Can you find the colours for Melbourne (which we probably already know actually), Ife and Mogadishu?

Ife is grey. It's on Mad Djinn's Beyond the Monument 20 second video at 41:52 in the second video

PhilBowles · Jul 4, 2013

Eagle Pursuit said:
While there does seem to be a sort of tradition of making city-states into civs, I don't think that having a city-state from a country predicates that country becoming a civ.

There are three Italian CSes and now two Malaysian ones (EDIT: and two Swiss - Geneva and Zurich - and Belgian - Brussels and Antwerp - ones), but I don't see any of those becoming civs. While certain seemingly likely civ choices don't have associated CSes (no Yasodhapura/Angkor Thom for the Khmer, for example).

I don't think there is a "tradition" of turning CSes into civs - quite a lot of CSes have indeed become cities in civs, but these represent a minority of the civs actually added since release. From memory:

Mongolia: No CSes
Babylon: No CSes
Denmark: Copenhagen, Oslo
Spain: No CSes
Inca: No CSes
Polynesia: No CSes
Korea: Seoul

Netherlands: No CSes
Celts: Edinburgh, Dublin
Byzantium: No CSes
Maya: No CSes
Austria: Vienna
Huns: No CSes
Sweden: Stockholm, Helsinki
Ethiopia: No CSes
Carthage: No CSes

Assyria: No CSes
Brazil: Rio de Janeiro
Indonesia: Jakarta
Morocco: Marrakech
Poland: Warsaw
Portugal: Lisbon
Shoshone: No CSes
Venice: Venice
Zulu: No CSes

14 of 25 civs added since vanilla have no associated CSes. Conversely, only 11 civs have "emerged" from city-states, while over 30 nations are represented among vanilla and G&K CSes.

Countries with a lot of players that aren't included in the civs themselves seem to be getting multiple citystates. It's just marketing to get those people also still involved with the game.
Belgium (Antwerp, Brussels), Switzerland (Geneva, Zürich), Italy (Milan, Genoa, Florence) and now Canada (Quebec, Vancouver) and Australia (Melbourne, Sydney)

I read recently that SE Asia generally is a very fast-growing market, with Malaysia and Thailand the lead consumers. That explains Malacca and possibly also the choice of Siam over the Khmer in vanilla. It might also explain why we had a lot of CSes from this region in vanilla, relatively speaking (Jakarta, Hanoi, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore - was Manila in vanilla?).

Talcove · Jul 4, 2013

It is, however, worth noting that two-thirds of the Brave New World civs were/had city-states before.

Giskler · Jul 4, 2013

Here they are:

Code:

		<Row>
			<Type>MINOR_CIV_IFE</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_IFE</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_IFE</ShortDescription>
			<Adjective>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_IFE_ADJ</Adjective>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_IFE_TEXT</Civilopedia>
			<DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_MINOR_GRAY</DefaultPlayerColor>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_MINOR</ArtDefineTag>
			<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST</ArtStyleType>
			<ArtStyleSuffix>_AFRI</ArtStyleSuffix>
			<ArtStylePrefix>AFRICAN </ArtStylePrefix>
			<MinorCivTrait>MINOR_TRAIT_RELIGIOUS</MinorCivTrait>
		</Row>

		<Row>
			<Type>MINOR_CIV_MOGADISHU</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MOGADISHU</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MOGADISHU</ShortDescription>
			<Adjective>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MOGADISHU_ADJ</Adjective>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_MOGADISHU_TEXT</Civilopedia>
			<DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_MINOR_LIGHT_BLUE</DefaultPlayerColor>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_MINOR</ArtDefineTag>
			<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST</ArtStyleType>
			<ArtStyleSuffix>_AFRI</ArtStyleSuffix>
			<ArtStylePrefix>AFRICAN </ArtStylePrefix>
			<MinorCivTrait>MINOR_TRAIT_MARITIME</MinorCivTrait>
		</Row>

		<Row>
			<Type>MINOR_CIV_MELBOURNE</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MELBOURNE</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MELBOURNE</ShortDescription>
			<Adjective>TXT_KEY_CITYSTATE_MELBOURNE_ADJ</Adjective>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_MELBOURNE_TEXT</Civilopedia>
			<DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_MINOR_LIGHT_GREEN</DefaultPlayerColor>
			<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_MINOR</ArtDefineTag>
			<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_EUROPEAN</ArtStyleType>
			<ArtStyleSuffix>_EURO</ArtStyleSuffix>
			<ArtStylePrefix>EUROPEAN </ArtStylePrefix>
			<MinorCivTrait>MINOR_TRAIT_MERCANTILE</MinorCivTrait>
		</Row>

Menzies · Jul 4, 2013

The full list then:

Maritime:
Cape Town - Light Orange
Quebec City - Blue
Ragusa - Middle Cyan
Sydney - Middle Blue
Manila - Light Green
Mombasa - Green
Ormus - Grey: Replacement for Jakarta
Panama City - Light Yellow: Replacement for Rio de Janeiro
Riga - Cyan: Replacement for Venice
Vancover - Purple: Replacement for Lisbon
Ur - Light Purple: New Addition
Byblos - Middle Purple: New Addition
Mogadishu - Light Blue: New Addition

Cultured:
Monaco - Purple
Yerevan - Peach
Prague - Blue
Milan - Light Orange
Kuala Lumpur - Yellow
Brussels - Light Blue
Florence - Cyan
Bucharest - Light Green
Bratislava - White: Replacement for Warsaw
Kabul - Green: New Addition
Kyzyl - Middle Cyan: New Addition
Kiev - Middle Blue: New Addition
Buenos Aires - Light Purple: Addition

Mercantile:
Cahokia - White
Genoa - Middle Cyan
Hong Kong - Blue
Tyre - Green
Zanzibar - Light Blue
Antwerp - Purple
Colombo - Light Purple
Singapore - Light Yellow
Zurich - Grey
Samarkand - Middle Blue: New Addition
Malacca - Cyan: New Addition
Melbourne - Light Green: New Addition
Antananarivo - Peach, Replacement for Marrakesh

Militaristic:
Belgrade - Green
Sidon - Middle Purple
Hanoi - Light Purple
Valletta - Yellow
Budapest - Grey
Almaty - Light Orange
Sofia - Light Green: New Addition
Mbanza-Kongo - Cyan: New Addition

Religious:
Geneva - Middle Blue
La Venta - Cyan
Lhasa - Light Green
Jerusalem - White
Wittenberg - Light Purple
Vatican City - Light Yellow
Ife - Grey: New Addition
Kathmandu - Middle Purple: Type changed from Cultured

Gucumatz · Jul 4, 2013

Mission accomplished Menzies - Great job on the compilation!

tranger66 · Jul 4, 2013

Nice work!

There are a lot of B and K cultural cities, even the one that changed from cultural to religious starts with K.

10 New City States?

Chieftain

Per Scribendum, Volo

Deity

Deity

The Dutch Daredevil

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom

Ruler of all heads of state

Menzies

+1 Sleuthing

Menzies

Deity

Menzies

Deity

Warlord

Deity

Slayer of Spies

+1 Sleuthing

Menzies

JS, secretly Rod Serling

Warlord

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