Korean War Revisited

Got them this morning, but I couldn't reply right away as I had to rush off to work. I am almost done my events (at least, until it's inevitably tweaked after my first playtest); really, only calculating the maprect and moveto coordinates for the move events for the Chinese counter-offensive needs to be done at this point. As well, streloks suggestion of placing backup in North Korea itself so that NK forces don't completely diminish by the time you get there, and McMonkey's suggestions of peppering the countryside with 'villages' (one space suburbs, which are renamed and redrawn railroads) also needs to be done, and then I think I can gander my first personal playtest in a couple years (have I been working on it that long?).
 
In SCW I have added an extra terrain called village with a high defensive value (+100%). These are placed alongside roads and can be defended by infantry quite effectively. It means that not all the action is restricted to attack on cities. I have also used the new stackable terrain feature to free up the old fortress for use again. A fortified village becomes a formidable defensive position. Just an idea you might find useful.
 
Alright, I need a quick refresher, please. The last time entered a MOVETO event in Civ2 ToT was a couple of years ago (the last time, in fact, I had been working on the Korean War scenario before a long hiatus from Civ2), and I can't, for the life of me, remember which coordinates exactly are entered into the four MAPRECT set. I still do have my original ToT manual - somewhere - but digging it up in my apartment could take forever. Could someone please tell me which coordinates are generally ideal (in a broad sense) for MAPRECT coordinates?
 
Top left, top right, bottom right, bottom left in that order with just commas between them (IE 20,98,38,98,38,130,20,130). Avoid odd even combinations (I normally use all even numbers to be safe). Make sure that the destination hex isn't within the box you set or the units will get stuck. Try using multiple boxes to move units to where you want them in steps. Use multiple triggers, such as @IF TURN Turn=every or @IF UNITKILLED Unit=AnyUnit. This will ensure the move unit event should trigger several times per turn and catch more units. ToTPP allows you to specify specific units to move. The old ToT events claimed to do this but I don't think it worked.
 
Thanks greatly, McMonkey!
 
Alright, I was suddenly busy the last two days, but *cracks knuckles* time to finish this. It's been years!
 
Okay, I haven't yet added 'villages,' in whatever form they may take, or placed rear flank and home units in North Korean territory, or edited the describe.txt or game.txt files; I just wanted to see if the events I have actually work. I ran into a problem already, long before I ever got to a Chinese counter-offensive in playtesting that baffles me. In my first try, I lost Pusan (I recall McMonkey mentioning the same happening on his first try at the alpha, long ago). However, I've now set alternate coordinates for UN land reinforcements to appear in Fukuoka, Japan if Pusan is occupied. I also set up the spawning of 5 Landing Craft at the first reinforcements spawn to handle such things. However, when Pusan fell, the land reinforcements appeared in Fukuoka, as planned, but the landing craft didn't appear in the Tsushima Strait. I'm pretty sure they DID last I tested, when I did keep Pusan, but it was a while ago and I can't remember for sure, and I didn't NEED then anyways. Any advice on this?
 
Simple solution: Create transports in Japan from the start? If the reinforcements are created in Japan you have your transports. If they are created in Pusan you can do whatever you want with the transports. Set them to sleep, disband them or add them to the Inchon landing forces later on.
 
Does anyone happen to know how to post something to the SL Wiki, perchance? I had mailed by open playtest to McMonkey on Friday and asked him to put it up, but his profile says he hasn't been online on CivFanatics (and thus probably hasn't checked his e-mail, either) since Thursday. I had a look at the options on the SL Wiki pages, but I couldn't find, for the life of me, a login option, or an option obviously meant to post things. I may have missed something, and, if there is a login required, I sincerely I don't need my old Apolyton password, as I don't remember it. Is there someone who can give me a hand?
 
Nevermind the above post. To my surprise, the whole .zip file actually fit as a single attachment. Thus, could anyone who wishes a to give swing at it try what I have now (which is very close to complete), with mostly the goal of testing my updated Chinese Intervention in mind?
 

Attachments

  • Korean_War_Playtest_New.zip
    1.8 MB · Views: 108
Hi Patine,

I'll definitely put aside some time this week to test it. Perhaps you can indicate what are the triggers that activate the Chinese intervention so we can better know what we are looking for.
 
Essentially, capturing almost all of the North Korean cities or destroying one of the Border Post units of the mechanical slot Chinese Border player are meant to activate the intervention.
 
Hi Patine,

I'd like to preface this review by saying this is a very well crafted and thought out scenario and as such I enjoyed playing it very much. The opening campaign is a real nail bitter. At one point, the only city I controlled on the Korean Peninsula was Pusan and it was only through the judicious use of air power that I was able to stave off total defeat. It's only after receiving my first reinforcements that I was able to stabilize my bridgehead.

After having blunted the North Korean onslaught and received my second batch of reinforcements, I was finally prepared to launch my counteroffensive (9 months after the initial NK invasion). As such, I used a three pronged approach:
Firstly, I would send all my British and Commonwealth troops, supported by a carrier group to re-conquer the eastern coast of the Peninsula (with the city of Najin being my ultimate goal).
Secondly, I would send the bulk of my American and United Nation forces, supported by artillery and armor, to re-conquer central Korea.
And finally, I would load my Marine Corps units aboard my landing craft, and supported by my other carrier group, re-conquer all the southern and western Korean coastal cities.

As such, I was able to liberate all of Korea by the following dates:

Feb 1951: Taech'on - Taejon - Sengju - Kosong line
Mar 1951: Inchon - SEOUL - Wonju - Wonsan line
Apr 1951: Kaesong - Seoul - Ch'unch'on - Hungnam line
May 1951: Changyan - Kaesong - Ich'on - Hungnam - Kimch'aek line
June 1951: Songnim - Sinch'on - Ich'on - Hungnam - Kyongsong - Najin line
Aug 1951: Songnim - PYONGYANG - Sinch'on - Ich'on - Hungnam - Kyongsong - Najin line
Sep 1951: Songnim - Pyongyang - Sinuiji - Sinch'on - Ich'on - Hungnam - Kyongsong - Najin line
OCT 1951: Captured Kujang but CHINESE INTERVENTION ACTIVATED
Nov 1951: Captured Yangdok but Chinese forces recapture Sinuiji and begin a relentless assault on my Songnim-Pyongyang defensive line
May 1951: Tumen captured
June 1951: P'ungsan captured
Oct 1952: Changjin captured, North Korean civilization DESTROYED

After this point, I primarily adopted a defensive stance to see how the opposing forces would react (see comments on the Chinese intervention below).

Towards the end of the game, I created a very strong amphibious force supported by a large carrier group and launched an invasion against Qingdao and Chufu to see if I could rest them from the Chinese grip.

June 1953: Captured Chinese city of Qingdao
July 1953: Captured Chinese city of Chufu and
SCENARIO ENDS

SUGGESTIONS:

After playing your excellent scenario, here are my observations on some of the issues I encountered and my suggestions on how they could be improved. I believe most of them would require minimal effort to implement. Feel free to use or disregard any of them, as you deem appropriate.

CHINESE Intervention:

The Chinese intervention is strong and relentless but because the PVA forces are created primarily along the north western Chinese-Korean border (between tiles 29,43 and 64,8), I was able to set up a strong defensive line in this area which when supported by massive US air power was capable of preventing any break through.

After capturing Kujang, I was able to control the center of northern Korea with just a few troops and aircraft, repeatedly defeating the occasional but limited enemy thrusts.

After capturing Najin, I was able to hold the entire north eastern Korean sector with relatively minimal forces, as there was almost no Chinese or Korean counteroffensive in this sector. Ultimately, I was able to push on and capture Tumen and P'ungsan ending all enemy activity in this region.

Because the enemy was unable to pierce my lines at any point they were unable to recapture any of the Korean cities and therefore didn't receive any of the free units associated to their capture as stipulated in the event file, thereby again weakening China's gambit for re-conquest.

Therefore, I have the following recommendations to improve this situation:

I believe one of the problems is that the threshold for activating the Chinese Intervention is a little too high and therefore gives the UN player too much time to establish relatively strong defensive positions. I recommend that you reduce the threshold to 4, maybe even 3, making it more difficult for the UN to have time to set up these lines.

Historically, at least 3 out of the 8 initial Chinese armies attacked south from the Chosin reservoir (just north of the city of Kujang in terms of the game) towards Hungnam.

Because the focus of the Chinese intervention is focalized to one side only, I recommend that you expand its starting points. Therefore, instead of having all your reinforcements created along the north west border split them up in three sectors. I would also attach the generation of said reinforcements to a corresponding Chinese city, i.e. as long as the Chinese control the city associated to the sector they get the reinforcements otherwise they don't. For example:

Sector A - 55% of reinforcements could be generated along these 3 sectors with Songnim & Pyongyang the initial objectives
A1- city of Liaojang: between tiles 32,46 to 39,39
A2- city of Shanyang: between tiles 38,36 to 47,27
A3 - city of Tungua: between tiles 49,25 to 57,17

Sector B - 35% of reinforcements could be generated in this sector with Hungnam the initial objective
B1 - city of Kirin: between tiles 66,20 to 82,24

Sector C - 10% of reinforcements could be generated in this sector with Kyongsong and Najin the initial objective. In addition, I would generate a onetime Chinese army in this sector on the turn that the Chinese intervention event is activated.
C1 - city of Tumen: between tiles 110,16 to 122,16

I would probably increase the overall number of units related specifically to the Chinese intervention event you receive by 30 or 50% (not talking about the other units you receive when a Chinese city is captured by UN troops).

You should also place air bases along the Chinese side of the Chinese-Korean border to allow the PRC air force to operate against the UN forces. Currently their cities are too far from the front line and it allows the UN air units to operate with almost complete impunity.
33,41
40,30
80,20
69,17

By replicating these events and increasing the likelihood of a Chinese intervention, I believe it would help destabilize the UN position and make it more difficult for them to hold on to the North (at least more difficult then it currently appears).

VICTORY Conditions:
The Decisive Victory Conditions require 50 objective cities but there are only a total of 47 objective cities in the game, thereby rendering a decisive victory impossible.

When the Chinese, in my game, managed to recapture the city of Sinuiji, it was destroyed, again rendering the possibility of a decisive victory impossible (even if there had been 50 objective cities). As such, I would recommend you implement TOTPP's 'City population loss' feature which prevents the destruction of cities.

As a rule, I find it's best to have a few more total number of objective cities in the game than are required to achieve a decisive victory.

To achieve a decisive, or even marginal, victory you are compelled to invade China. I don't believe there is a historical context for this. This certainly wasn't part of the UN mandate or an objective that either Truman or Eisenhower supported. In fact, it was McArthur's insistence on widening the war, and usurping the Executive branch's prerogative in this matter, that got him fired.

In my humble opinion the scenario should be focused on the Korean conflict and not about starting World War III. The decision is clearly up to you, as the designer, if you prefer to keep things as they are but if you are interested here is what I would change:

• I would limit all objectives cities to within the borders of Korea proper and modify the victory conditions (example: Decisive victory if you control all of Korea, stalemate if you only control the cities below the 50th parallel and marginal or decisive defeat if you control less cities than was historically controlled at the time of the armistice).
• Don't change how the Chinese Border civilization works (very clever idea by the way) to keep the Chinese from crossing the border prior to the Chinese Intervention and remove it, as already happens, after activation. Use the pollution icon, like I did for my Battle of France scenario, to draw the Chinese-Korean border, along the same line you set up your Chinese Border Station units, and implement a house rule that forbids any UN forces, including air, from crossing it.
• Either add a house rule that forbids the UN from attacking the Border Station units or make the units so powerful defensively that it doesn't make sense to attack them. Once the Chinese intervention is activated they are removed in any case.
• Create roads from the Chinese cities of Liaojang, Anshan and Shenyang towards the Korean border and use MoveTo commands to push units generated in the cities to go fight in Korea.

INCHON Invasion:

I would handle the Inchon invasion differently. For starters it is too weak, as 3 of the 7 Marine units the event places next to the city were eliminated on the first turn of the invasion and the other four reduced to less than half strength. By the second turn they were all wiped out (my only real option would have been to evacuate the survivors onto the landing crafts after the first turn).

Historically the invasion was the task of the US X Corps, which comprised the 1st Marine and 7th Infantry Divisions and was supported by tank and artillery units and the 1st Marine air wing (whose air units you could generate in Inchon upon its capture).

In addition, I believe the invasion force should be set up under a naval task force somewhere in the Yellow Sea but within striking distance of Inchon. By doing so you let the player decide exactly how he wants to use the units.

UNIT Names:

I think you should shorten the name of a number of units, for example all Chinese units which served in the Korean conflict were part of the "People's Volunteer Army" (PVA) an adjunct of the "Chinese People's Liberation Army". The North Korean army was known as the "Korean People's Army" or KPA. Thus the:

'Communist Chinese Wave Infantry' could become the 'PVA Wave Infantry'
'Defensive North Korean Infantry' could become the 'KPA Defensive Infantry'
'South Korean Infantry' could become the 'ROK Infantry'

The shorter names would make it easier to read the unit statistics throughout the game screens and rules file.

WINTER/SUMMER files:

This is simply a suggestion, but adding winter/summer months would add an extra dash of flavor to the scenario. It shouldn't be too difficult to find winter graphics for your terrain. The advantage is you could increase the movement cost of terrain for the UN forces, which were more dependent on motor transports, making it more difficult for them to respond to Chinese thrusts or breakthroughs during the winter months.

You could use a BAT file to easily let the player swap the terrain and rules file during the appropriate months (again you could take a look at my 'Battle of France' or 'A House Divided' scenario bat files to see how it's done).

AIR UNIT movement factor:

I believe the B-50 Superfortress base movement factor is too low and should be increased from 16 to 30 tiles per turn with its corresponding range reduced from 9 to 5.

I hope you find my review and comments useful. They were certainly meant in the perspective of making a very good scenario even more challenging.

Tootall
 
Hi Patine,

UNIT graphics:

There are 3 units whose background colors are incorrect and thus are partially showing up as pink or purple pixels either on some of the game screens or map: the Yak-9, Landing Craft and Border Station.

You simply need to reinsert the following graphics into your unit grid and it should correct this anomaly.

 

Attachments

  • Korea.bmp
    38 KB · Views: 153
  • Korea.png
    Korea.png
    6.3 KB · Views: 404
Hello, Tootall,

Now that I've seen one of your thorough playtests, I see potential flashes of AGRICOLA (albeit the commentary's not as colorful). I certainly see these flaws now (at least looking over the events areas you pointed out), and certainly all of your fixes are easily implemented - save one. You suggested placed Operation Chromite landing force at sea. However, as I discovered while doing my Empire of the Rising Sun scenario sometime ago, the game will NOT place land units by event on transport ships, even if the present ships' hold can store them. I may have missed a fix to this in the ToTPP, in which case that work well. If I haven't, it might be something to bring up to TNO. Thank-you very much for the objective playtest and advice.
 
Hi Patine,

To be honest, I've never tried to place ground units on sea tiles by events before, so you may be correct in your assertion. If that is the case, I believe the fix should be simple, i.e. have all the units arrive in Cheju one turn earlier indicating that this is the Inchon invasion force.

And to give the player incentive to use the task force against Inchon, indicate they will receive a bonus for capturing the city within a specific timeframe (maybe they will receive extra troops in the city upon it's capture and/or prevent the North Korean player from generating extra reinforcement in the city (modify the events file to generate NK reinforcements per turn in the city instead of just once))

One of the reasons MacArthur choose Inchon is because it lay astride the main NK supply routes. By recapturing the city as soon as possible you hasten their collapse in the South.

In addition, if you decide to follow my recommendations with regards limiting the conflict to Korea I suggest then that you generate your Chinese reinforcement units next to the border tiles.
 
Alright, I need a quick refresher, please. The last time entered a MOVETO event in Civ2 ToT was a couple of years ago (the last time, in fact, I had been working on the Korean War scenario before a long hiatus from Civ2), and I can't, for the life of me, remember which coordinates exactly are entered into the four MAPRECT set.

That may be because I did the N. Korean and Chinese offensive events for you, something you seem to have forgotten.
 
My apologies, Techumseh. I must've forgotten. I'll be sure to remember, however, when compiling the credits of those who contributed to this scenario's creation. I again apologize for any offense.
 
I've decided to add a 'Naval Task Force' unit when TNO adds more unit spaces to allow for bombardment (I'll probably only have one or two of them, period) for the amphibious Inch'on invasion (as they'll otherwise be useless, as neither the North Koreans nor Chinese have any sort of naval units). I may also have a house rule demanding they be put to port and disbanded (redeployed) so they can't ahistorically maraud the coast like frothing Vikings. Any thoughts on this?
 
Top Bottom