From Emperor to Demigod

Probably prematurely, I am trying to move up to demigod. Its not as though I crush the AI at emperor. I frequently have to give up such games but nonetheless I feel I will not improve my play much at that level. I have just downloaded the useful-looking CivAssistII to help and started a game with the Maya. Tiny Pangea map against Carthage, England and India, all selected by the system.

I have already discovered after a few starts that this is a whole new ball game and that just surviving at all is a challenge. The tech deficit also seems to become worryingly big although I usually get bumped off before it really matters.

I wondered whether anybody had any tips or whether there might even be an existing thread.

The idea of winning games at this level seems a sick joke and yet I see there are guys knocking off the machine two levels higher. Unbelievable. Whatever, I would like to learn more of the dark arts. I already know something about settler factories, pre-building (although I never seem to get the timing right) over-lapping cities and the republic sling shot (surely not possible at this level??) but any other devious techniques would be appreciated.

Tiny worlds are the hardest. On larger worlds you have more opportunity to find isolated and backwards AIs or groups of AIs to trade with (on demigod you'll probably be a little backwards too so you're gonna need them to trade with), and the more opponents you know with a technology the cheaper is it to buy. On larger worlds technologies cost more so doing 50-turn researching can be an option in the beginning or while building military and doing an invasion.

Pangea is the hardest. Everyone will meet each other early, and at demigod the AI sell and trade technologies very fast, leaving you behind. On archipelago the technology pace is much slower in the beginning, and can sometimes be slow as long as until everybody has astronomy/navigation to travel sea/ocean tiles and printing press to trade contacts. But at that point you should already have a solid empire.

20% land is the hardest. There's not much space, you're gonna have to take some of your neighbour's cities eventually, and you need to build cities fast to be able to support an army. With 40% land you have more time so setting up a settler factory early on a 5 surplus food spot is a good investment. Research pottery and build a granary after units for defense, exploring and getting contacts, then alternate between building worker and settler. Let the worker build a road to the settling place and then stay with the city to develop it's tiles. If the factory has a lot of shields or only 4 surplus food, let it build worker-spearman-settler.

If you don't start on a good spot, quickstart a new game. Look for food bonus tiles, rivers and any fresh water for agricultural civs.

Building a wonder is probably not possible, getting the slingshot maybe if you start with alphabet. Games on higher difficulty levels tend to become complete war games, because that's your only chance to stay competetive, so I like emperor/demigod the best.

There are many factors required in order to be successful at the higher levels.

• Extensive micro management for let's say the first 100 turns. You need to grow as quickly as possible (use all food boni available!) and at the same time squeeze every last shield and gold coin out of the land and put it to good use.
• A good understanding of where to put your cities, so that they can quickly utilize all available tiles. (Preferably without the need for aqueducts.)
• Good planning of your worker actions. Every single worker turn must be used to the best effect. Having workers running back and forth between different areas is a no-go. Make sure the most beneficial tile improvements are built first. (Read cracker's war academy article about worker management and land assessment.) Build more workers! You will also need some to join to your cities, once they have reached size 7. Because after size 7, growing takes twice as much food and consequently twice as long. By building a worker in a town < 7 with a granary and then joining it to a city >= 7 without granary, you basically quadruply your growth rate. (An additional citizen of your empire takes only 10 food instead of 40.) By building your workers in crap outer towns (99% corrupt) and then joining them to the highly productive core cities, you enhance this process even more.
• Very good trading skills.
• Make sure to concentrate your efforts on the first ring cities first. These are the ones which contribute 80-90% of your empire's production and commerce. So don't assign workers to improving some crap towns, if core cities still have unimproved tiles!
• And many more... like a good grasp of military tactics and strategy...

With these it should be doable to overcome the 30% discount that the AI has over you. After all, the AI plays quite clueless, and a lot of its resources go waste...

The Republic slingshot is doable on Demigod. In my experience it's a 50-50 chance. Having a good commerce-rich start position (lots of rivers, gold hills, lux ressources and of course food) while the AIs have bad start positions helps...

Thank you Lanzelot and Ahman. Some very helpful tips there.

Using CivAssistII I have discovered an awful lot of waste in my approach to production. Trouble is, I'm not sure what to do about it I keep getting a warning that my capital, say, is about to overrun production by 87% in producing a settler. It turns out to mean 7 shields are going to be wasted. What I am not sure of is what to do about this. I want the settler and I don't see any better squares to devote to production. Should I be calculating the number of shields I need before I develop tiles or turning people into taxmen/scientists for a couple of turns ahead of production?

In this case, my city is adjacent to a lake and also adjacent to two tiles with cows each producing, when developed (road and irrigation) two shields, three food and one gold. This is under despotism. Nearby I have a hill with gold which produces 1 food 2 shields and I dunno 5(?) gold when roaded and mined.

It's actually a great spot and it will be a pity to give it up in order to move to a bigger map with continents, as advised above. But I just wanted to know how to get the max out of it.

walletta said:

Using CivAssistII I have discovered an awful lot of waste in my approach to production. Trouble is, I'm not sure what to do about it I keep getting a warning that my capital, say, is about to overrun production by 87% in producing a settler. It turns out to mean 7 shields are going to be wasted. What I am not sure of is what to do about this. I want the settler and I don't see any better squares to devote to production. Should I be calculating the number of shields I need before I develop tiles...

Click to expand...

In a word, yes -- see below.

In this case, my city is adjacent to a lake and also adjacent to two tiles with cows each producing, when developed (road and irrigation) two shields, three food and one gold. This is under despotism. Nearby I have a hill with gold which produces 1 food 2 shields and I dunno 5(?) gold when roaded and mined.

Click to expand...

Do you know how to set up a settler-pump, because that sounds like an awesome spot for one -- 2 Cows (= bonus shields and bonus food), and access to freshwater (=no 'Duct needed for growth to Pop7).

First you build (and fill) a Granary, then you need to juggle that town's worked tiles so as to produce 30s and 20f (i.e. the cost of a Settler) over (ideally) 4T, as the city grows by 2 pop-points -- either from Pop4 to Pop6, or from Pop5 to Pop7. The city then drops back down to its starting Pop, ready to start the cycle again. This is not as complicated as it sounds. Assuming that all worked tiles around your city are producing at least 2FPT (NB especially under Despot: irrigate Plains, mine Grass), since you already get +2FPT from your city tile, you only need another +3FPT to get the magic +5FPT -- and that's where the food bonuses come in.

City growth is calculated before city production on the IBT, so you also need to tell your City-Governor to 'Emphasise production' (but not 'Manage moods'). This way, your new civizen is temporarily assigned to a shield-rich square (e.g. a forest or mined hill), and then puts those 2s (under Despot) straight into the production box, so you can actually get a few 'free' shields on each city-growth IBT (if you need them, e.g. for a food-rich but shield-poor city). Depending on what tiles you have available, you can then either leave the new civizen where they are, or reassign the civizens after growth, for the magic numbers. An 'ideal' pump will need little to no micromanagement, and will run something like this, starting at Pop4 (or Pop5, if your city has freshwater access or an Aqueduct):

• Turn 1: +5Fpt, 6-7Spt
• Turn 2: +5Fpt, 6-7Spt
• IBT: Growth, new civizen assigned to shield-tile => 14-16s in production box
• Turn 3: +5Fpt, 7-8Spt
• Turn 4: +5Fpt, 7-8Spt
• IBT: Growth, new civizen assigned to shield-tile => Settler completes => city drops back to Pop4 (or Pop5), cycle restarts

...but there are lots of other possibilities, e.g. you can make a 5T-pump (producing an average 5.2SPT + 4 IBT-shields) which takes 3T (e.g. 2T at +3FPT, 1T at +4FPT) to grow from Pop4-5, then 2T from Pop5-6 -- or vice versa. In the Emperor-level SG I'm currently 'helping' with (led by Lanzelot), we used multiple Settler-pump configurations in our (Floodplain-based) capital under Despotism. This page discusses some of them. We even (briefly) actually managed to set up a 3T pump (although I haven't located the page where Lanzelot described it in detail, there's a reference to it on p.14 or thereabouts), growing from Pop5 to Pop6 in 1T (i.e. +10FPT!) and then reassigning civizens for 5FPT and max. shields over the next 2T, with very little wastage.

EDIT:
Found the place where the 3T Settler-pump is described: p.13, post 241, Handover notes:

Oasenstadt can now build settlers in 3 turns: on the first turn use 4 floodplains for +10fpt to grow to size 6 immediately. Then set it up for +5fpt and 8shields as it is right now. And in the third turn cash-rush an archer so the shield-box has 20s.

Click to expand...

i.e. from Pop5, with Granary (needs 10f to fill), in Republic, set production to Archer (20s):

• Turn 1: City + 4iFlood + mOasis = 20f, 3s (Pop5 eats 10f)
  • IBT food calc.: 0f+10f => growth to Pop6, new civizen to mHills (1f,3s)
  • IBT prod. calc.: 3s+3s (= 6s/20s stored)
• Turn 2: City + 2iFlood, 2mOasis, 1iPlains, 1mHills = 17f, 8s (Pop6 eats 12f)
  • IBT food + prod. calc.: 0f+5f, 6s+8s (=14s/20s stored)
• Turn 3: City + 2iFlood, 2mOasis, 1iPlains, 1mHills = 17f, 8s (Pop6 eats 12f)
  • Short-rush Archer for 4*(20s - 14s) = 24g; switch to Settler (= 20s/30s stored)
  • IBT food calc.: 5f+5f => growth to Pop7, new civizen to Forest (1f,2s)
  • IBT prod. calc.: 20s+8s+2s => Settler completes => Pop5

Especially at higher difficulty levels though, you need to ensure that your Settler-pump will stay happy as it grows throughout the cycle -- so military police (2 Warriors are cheapest -- and can be upgraded to Swords later), 1-2 Lux-resources, and/or Luxury-spending may also be needed.

In addition to the above, Worker-pumps can be set up in a similar way, with or without Granaries -- for a 5-turner you need +4FPT (+2FPT with a Gran) and 2SPT, or you can do a 2-turner (with Gran) from Pop4-5 or Pop5-6 if you can get +5FPT and +5SPT. Again, these can basically be set up to run themselves -- in the same SG I mentioned above, one of our core cities -- Königsberg -- has been used almost continuously as a Worker-pump (5T then later 2T, from Pop4 or Pop6), right up until the second most recent save (we started a GA, so we switched it to building a Lib/Market/Uni, and started it growing to Pop12, since we are now cash-rushing slave workers in captured cities).

Regarding unexpected last-turn shield overrun -- the best advice I found was to take that city's civizens off the shield tiles (e.g. hills, forests) and put them on commerce tiles (e.g. coast, riverbanks). The FPT is the same (or better), and you effectively convert those 'wasted' shields into some extra gold (assuming it's one of your core cities). With CAII, clicking on the city name in the Alerts window will take you straight to the affected city on the map screen, so you can then click into the city screen and fix the problem -- and clicking on the city name on the Alert screen also crosses the name out, so you can keep track of which problem-cities you've fixed so far.

But a better tactic is to match unit builds to available SPT (or vice versa) at the start of the build, so as to minimise/eliminate overrun. Obviously the ideal is to get a city producing 10SPT (or a multiple of 10SPT), since it can then build almost everything (except Curraghs!) without any waste, but any whole-number factor of the shield cost will work. So if you want a 30s unit, don't start building it in a city making e.g. 7 or 9SPT (=4 or 5T with 5-6s overrun) -- adjust the city's worked tiles at the start of the build to try and get 6SPT (and more GPT) or 10SPT (and less FPT) instead -- or (if you can stand that level of MM!) build at 7SPT for 2T, then (remember to) reassign civizens for 8SPT for 2T. (At least at Monarch and below, 4T at 8SPT is also 'kind of' OK for a 30s unit -- but that means wasting the last 2s. At DemiGod it would be much better to build a 40s unit in 5T with no wastage).

Bear in mind that if a city is producing less than +2FPT, any time it grows/ shrinks, its civizens will be reassigned (by the Governor) to make at least +2FPT, so the SPT will almost always need to be tweaked again any time that happens (at least in your core cities). CAII can also keep you informed of city growth/shrinkage, so you can go to the affected city from the Alert window, as above.

Thanks tjs282. Those are two funky posts. I will fool around with my current capital on the mini-map until I get the hang of it. You are right, it is one heck of a starting spot, which is why it will be a shame to lose it. It's also very well located for spawning 5 or 6 easily defended cities. Trouble is - no iron and no surplus lux or resources for trade (one horse, one dyes and one incense and that's it). No doubt to the masters here that would be plenty - but not to me.

A great thing about CivAssist is that it tells me how much the various trades are worth and whether I am making a good deal or not. Now that really is handy.

ETA Sorry, I forgot to ask - what is 'the IBT'? In-between turn?

ETA again - are you saying that a new citizen arrives with some production already? Before the end of the turn of his (or, for that matter, her) arrival. Geez. I have only been playing the game for a hundred years and still didn't know that.

ETA yet again - I did not mean to suggest my capital had all those resources/luxuries. That really would be a helluva city only that that's all there is in reasonable reach before I bump into the neighbours.

walletta said:

I keep getting a warning that my capital, say, is about to overrun production by 87% in producing a settler. It turns out to mean 7 shields are going to be wasted. What I am not sure of is what to do about this. I want the settler and I don't see any better squares to devote to production.

Click to expand...

If you don't want to count 10 turns ahead for a build (who does), 1. stay a few extra tiles ahead in development and 2. make the tiles "extreme" (irrigate grassland and mine plains instead of the opposite, it gives much more possibilities than a city with just 2 food + 1 shield tiles everywhere). First develop the tiles that cities share so they all can use them, and don't build cities too close, they need a few more tiles than exactly 12 each.

Using irrigated grassland isn't possible in despotism but you can still use flood plains and food bonus tiles so irrigate them. In despotism you'll have to use 1 food + 2 shield tiles (forests, hills and some mined plains) to balance food vs shields, which slows down your growth so unless you're gonna lose a lot of shields (6 shields left on an aqueduct and your city is producing 5) it's probably better to keep growing.

In monarchy/republic you'll waste almost nothing if you micromanage after a city has grown and finetune food vs shields to get as close to the target (building or growing) as possible, MM 1 turn before it grows to avoid wasting food or MM 1 turn before it builds to avoid wasting shields.

walletta said:

Should I be calculating the number of shields I need before I develop tiles or turning people into taxmen/scientists for a couple of turns ahead of production?

Click to expand...

In an uncorrupted city, 2 or 3 gold isn't really worth the 3 food/shields that you lose by turning a citizen into a taxman or scientist (rushing costs 3 gold per shield) but if you can't prevent food/shield waste, do it for a turn.

walletta said:

ETA again - are you saying that a new citizen arrives with some production already? Before the end of the turn of his (or, for that matter, her) arrival. Geez. I have only been playing the game for a hundred years and still didn't know that.

Click to expand...

First the food is counted and increased, then if the city grows the new citizen is appointed to a tile by the governor, then the shields are counted.You want your new citizen to work a tile with as much production as possible since food has already been increased. Set "Emphasize Production" for all cities and make it the default for new ones. It's not very important for constantly growing cities (only an extra shield now and then) but it can let you make a 4 turn settler factory instead of a 5 turn one.

ahman said:

If you don't want to count 10 turns ahead for a build (who does), 1. stay a few extra tiles ahead in development and 2. make the tiles "extreme" (irrigate grassland and mine plains instead of the opposite, it gives much more possibilities than a city with just 2 food + 1 shield tiles everywhere). First develop the tiles that cities share so they all can use them, and don't build cities too close, they need a few more tiles than exactly 12 each.

Using irrigated grassland isn't possible in despotism but you can still use flood plains and food bonus tiles so irrigate them. In despotism you'll have to use 1 food + 2 shield tiles (forests, hills and some mined plains) to balance food vs shields, which slows down your growth so unless you're gonna lose a lot of shields (6 shields left on an aqueduct and your city is producing 5) it's probably better to keep growing.

In monarchy/republic you'll waste almost nothing if you micromanage after a city has grown and finetune food vs shields to get as close to the target (building or growing) as possible, MM 1 turn before it grows to avoid wasting food or MM 1 turn before it builds to avoid wasting shields.



In an uncorrupted city, 2 or 3 gold isn't really worth the 3 food/shields that you lose by turning a citizen into a taxman or scientist (rushing costs 3 gold per shield) but if you can't prevent food/shield waste, do it for a turn.



First the food is counted and increased, then if the city grows the new citizen is appointed to a tile by the governor, then the shields are counted.You want your new citizen to work a tile with as much production as possible since food has already been increased. Set "Emphasize Production" for all cities and make it the default for new ones. It's not very important for constantly growing cities (only an extra shield now and then) but it can let you make a 4 turn settler factory instead of a 5 turn one.

Click to expand...

Thanks! More to this game than meets the eye! .

My first effort did not go exactly as planned. I noticed after I built the granary that I would be wasting 7 shields (again) with settler 1, so I switched to barracks. Then the same thing happened so I thought it couldn't hurt to switch to a temple. Then the same thing so, in for a penny, next thing you know I've built the pyramids! . Still only one city. The AI is starting to get suspicious by now and the Carthaginians launched a war, quickly turning one of my UUs into an elite and then straightaway generating a MGL. Oddly, through some glitch I had not seen before, this GL could not build an army or hurry an improvement and was thus entirely useless (unless they count as MPs). I had some fun for a few turns beating up the Indians (after making peace with Carthage) but had to throw in the towel in short order once reality caught up).

Back to the drawing board.

walletta said:

It turns out to mean 7 shields are going to be wasted. What I am not sure of is what to do about this. I want the settler and I don't see any better squares to devote to production. Should I be calculating the number of shields I need before I develop tiles or turning people into taxmen/scientists for a couple of turns ahead of production?

Click to expand...

In addition to what tjs282 and ahman already said, here is another great technique to avoid shield-overrun: short-rushing. See the second half of this post. However, it can be applied only in Republic/Monarchy. (One more reason to get out of Despotism asap!)

For example, if you want to build a settler in a town that has 7spt, it would take 5 turns to finish the settler and waste 5 shields in the process (5 x 7 = 35). By investing 12 gold, you can build the settler in 4 turns and waste 1 shield:
1. turn: 7s
2. turn: you switch to a worker and rush it for 3 x 4 = 12 gold. (Box now contains 10s). Then switch back to settler. The following production will add 7 shields for a total of 17s.
3. turn: 24s
4. turn: 31s, settler completes.

ahman said:

(rushing costs 3 gold per shield)

Click to expand...

4 gold per shield...

walletta said:

Oddly, through some glitch I had not seen before, this GL could not build an army or hurry an improvement and was thus entirely useless (unless they count as MPs).

Click to expand...

In order to build an Army, you need to own 4 towns. (8 towns for the second Army, 12 for the third, and so on.) However, it should always be able to rush an improvement?!? Did you try to rush a Great Wonder? Unlike in Civ3 Vanilla and PtW, in C3C MGLs can no longer rush Great Wonders. Only small wonders and buildings. (And I think they also cannot rush a unit?!)

Lanzelot said:

In addition to what tjs282 and ahman already said, here is another great technique to avoid shield-overrun: short-rushing. See the second half of this post. However, it can be applied only in Republic/Monarchy. (One more reason to get out of Despotism asap!)

For example, if you want to build a settler in a town that has 7spt, it would take 5 turns to finish the settler and waste 5 shields in the process (5 x 7 = 35). By investing 12 gold, you can build the settler in 4 turns and waste 1 shield:
1. turn: 7s
2. turn: you switch to a worker and rush it for 3 x 4 = 12 gold. (Box now contains 10s). Then switch back to settler. The following production will add 7 shields for a total of 17s.
3. turn: 24s
4. turn: 31s, settler completes.



4 gold per shield...

Click to expand...

Good tip. Thanks.

lanzelot said:

In order to build an Army, you need to own 4 towns. (8 towns for the second Army, 12 for the third, and so on.) However, it should always be able to rush an improvement?!? Did you try to rush a Great Wonder? Unlike in Civ3 Vanilla and PtW, in C3C MGLs can no longer rush Great Wonders. Only small wonders and buildings. (And I think they also cannot rush a unit?!)

Click to expand...

Ah! that must be it. I did not have four towns when this occurred and whenever I activated the guy no button appeared of any kind, not to build an army and not to hurry anything.

Just to show I am trying to absorb the advice here, which is much appreciated by the way, my second effort went much better. I got to the Middle Ages in reasonable shape with 9 cities and not too much of a tech deficit. I still haven't seen any iron. It's probably a tile or two beyond the horizon and when I find it I shall try to find a way to camp on it. The main thing is just to get the mechanics of city management working better. As I was in a hurry I did not attend to the detail enough and rattled through the moves too fast so I'll start again. I did read the link to the thread where you and tjs282 are helping out with a succession game. I found it instructive. When you say micro-management, you aren't kidding about the micro part

ETA what you have me doing for the first time is looking at the shield cost at the start of the construction phase and then trying to work out what things will look like in four or five turns. I can switch from shields to gold on the last or one but last turn of production as I have access to three or four lake tiles producing 2f2g rather than use the forest's 1g for instance.

Another deep question. What kind of building strategy should I be thinking of? Once the army is sufficiently robust to withstand assault, do you go for temples, courthouses, marketplaces, libraries, barracks everywhere or this type of thing in this town and something else in another? I guess barracks in a couple of high shield towns must be a good idea. I am never quite sure what to do with towns that produce food and gold but few shields.

walletta said:

do you go for temples, courthouses, marketplaces, libraries, barracks everywhere or this type of thing in this town and something else in another?

Click to expand...

Of course not... That's the best way to bankrupcy... Most people build too many improvements, which don't yield any return on investment and only drain the economy with their maintenance cost...

1. I never build temples. (Unless when I aim for a cultural 100K victory). They are just a waste of shields.
2. Pick out a few towns which will build units. They will get barracks, the others not.
3. If you expect to be doing quite a bit of research, build libraries in those towns, which have a decent commerce output. (If I go for a quick and dirty domination win, I don't build libraries. Only when I know I have to go all the way to Cavalry, then the capital and a handful of the best first-ring cities will get a library, before they start producing units.)
4. Marketplaces are very strong, if you have at least 4 luxury ressources. In that case core cities get a marketplace, once they aproach size 8 or so. If I have only 3 or less luxuries, marketplaces can wait until all the techs I want are researched and I switch from science to tax. The extra gold is then useful for everything, short-rushing in the core, upgrading units, rushig settlers and workers in 99% corrupt areas.

This is already everything in a military game.

If I go for a long game like space race and UN victory, the core cities of course need universities asap. Then I'll also build courthouses in the second-ring cities, in some third-ring cities, if they are still productive enough, and in the area where the Forbidden Palace is planned.

All the other towns don't get any improvements, not even an aqueduct. They can serve as "science farms" in the long-running games and as "worker/settler providers" in the military games. (Shortens the time to reach domination limit.)

General rule of thumb: if you don't know what to build in a town, build a worker (or settler, if there is still unclaimed space nearby).

Lanzelot said:

Of course not... That's the best way to bankrupcy... Most people build too many improvements, which don't yield any return on investment and only drain the economy with their maintenance cost...

1. I never build temples. (Unless when I aim for a cultural 100K victory). They are just a waste of shields.
2. Pick out a few towns which will build units. They will get barracks, the others not.
3. If you expect to be doing quite a bit of research, build libraries in those towns, which have a decent commerce output. (If I go for a quick and dirty domination win, I don't build libraries. Only when I know I have to go all the way to Cavalry, then the capital and a handful of the best first-ring cities will get a library, before they start producing units.)
4. Marketplaces are very strong, if you have at least 4 luxury ressources. In that case core cities get a marketplace, once they aproach size 8 or so. If I have only 3 or less luxuries, marketplaces can wait until all the techs I want are researched and I switch from science to tax. The extra gold is then useful for everything, short-rushing in the core, upgrading units, rushig settlers and workers in 99% corrupt areas.

This is already everything in a military game.

If I go for a long game like space race and UN victory, the core cities of course need universities asap. Then I'll also build courthouses in the second-ring cities, in some third-ring cities, if they are still productive enough, and in the area where the Forbidden Palace is planned.

All the other towns don't get any improvements, not even an aqueduct. They can serve as "science farms" in the long-running games and as "worker/settler providers" in the military games. (Shortens the time to reach domination limit.)

General rule of thumb: if you don't know what to build in a town, build a worker (or settler, if there is still unclaimed space nearby).

Click to expand...

Great, thanks. Workers and Settlers in the crap towns makes a lot of sense.

In my third attempt (same start position) I made a much better job of avoiding waste. Well into the Middle Ages I was ranked second in land area, pop. income etc. I was in touching distance on the tech tree but a very long way behind in culture. I still have not cracked the iron problem though and it turns out there is no saltpeter either so it's only a matter of time before someone shows up with 40 cavalry and bumps me off. I will give it one more go and then it's off to a continental map with more Civs. I am learning.

walletta said:

Another deep question. What kind of building strategy should I be thinking of? Once the army is sufficiently robust to withstand assault, do you go for temples, courthouses, marketplaces, libraries, barracks everywhere or this type of thing in this town and something else in another? I guess barracks in a couple of high shield towns must be a good idea. I am never quite sure what to do with towns that produce food and gold but few shields.

Click to expand...

Aqueducts, you want to work as many tiles as possible, that's your income source. For some cities this may also mean building a harbor and/or something with culture, but you can avoid building culture in most cities by putting them close enough. If there's a one tile thick no man's land-area between two citiy borders, your territory will fill it. You get those tiles for free.

Let cities with few spt start aqueduct and other improvements early (right away), and those with many spt build things for the whole empire, such as military or wonders.

In war games, I start building marketplaces when I can't afford the large military anymore and gpt is negative.

Lanzelot said:

I never build temples. (Unless when I aim for a cultural 100K victory). They are just a waste of shields.

Click to expand...

For a peaceful game, I think you can make some money with temples/colosseums/cathedrals. The temple has a 1 gold maintenance and makes 1 citizen content. If that makes it possible to lower luxuries with 1 and you have library, university, marketplace and bank, that 1 gold will become 2 gold... But if you're not so peaceful, 2 swordmen will give more gold in the long run.

ahman said:

Aqueducts, you want to work as many tiles as possible, that's your income source. For some cities this may also mean building a harbor and/or something with culture, but you can avoid building culture in most cities by putting them close enough. If there's a one tile thick no man's land-area between two citiy borders, your territory will fill it. You get those tiles for free.

Let cities with few spt start aqueduct and other improvements early (right away), and those with many spt build things for the whole empire, such as military or wonders.

In war games, I start building marketplaces when I can't afford the large military anymore and gpt is negative.



For a peaceful game, I think you can make some money with temples/colosseums/cathedrals. The temple has a 1 gold maintenance and makes 1 citizen content. If that makes it possible to lower luxuries with 1 and you have library, university, marketplace and bank, that 1 gold will become 2 gold... But if you're not so peaceful, 2 swordmen will give more gold in the long run.

Click to expand...

Also great, thanks.

walletta said:

Also great, thanks.

Click to expand...

Np, good luck with the saltpeter or iron

ahman said:

Np, good luck with the saltpeter or iron

Click to expand...

Thanks. No dice so far but I have found a spot by a lake with two spice tiles which I can reach if I develop differently. That gives me three lux, one of which I can actually trade. I got lost in empire management though and expensively lost this city to Carthage, as well as another useful one so game three (or four?) was abandoned. Pity because I got a GSL and had rushed the pyramids (mistake, as it triggered an early UU) but I am now getting totally absorbed in this micro management thing.

I have found the research path that works best is wheel and horse riding as the AI will swap a lot for the latter. Everything else they get there first. Just need to find that darn iron or at least a friendly trading partner. I will report. Does anyone know how to take screen shots in Windows? I am a Mac user but I am playing in Windows and don't know the OS.

Lanzelot said:

Most people build too many improvements, which don't yield any return on investment and only drain the economy with their maintenance cost...

1. I never build temples. (Unless when I aim for a cultural 100K victory). They are just a waste of shields.
2. Pick out a few towns which will build units. They will get barracks, the others not.
3. If you expect to be doing quite a bit of research, build libraries in those towns, which have a decent commerce output. (If I go for a quick and dirty domination win, I don't build libraries. Only when I know I have to go all the way to Cavalry, then the capital and a handful of the best first-ring cities will get a library, before they start producing units.)
4. Marketplaces are very strong, if you have at least 4 luxury ressources. In that case core cities get a marketplace, once they aproach size 8 or so. If I have only 3 or less luxuries, marketplaces can wait until all the techs I want are researched and I switch from science to tax. The extra gold is then useful for everything, short-rushing in the core, upgrading units, rushig settlers and workers in 99% corrupt areas.

This is already everything in a military game.

General rule of thumb: if you don't know what to build in a town, build a worker (or settler, if there is still unclaimed space nearby).

Click to expand...

Interesting. But no temples? How do you get culture pops? And how can you build cathedrals without them? Even with 4 luxuries and marketplaces the citizens can become unhappy--just at Emperor--beyond size 8 or so, right? And how do you keep them happy before that--with MPs? Or do you simply use the lux slider as compensation?

As for libraries and research, I was under the impression that at higher levels you're obliged to buy techs with the gold you save from 10-20% research. At least until sometime in the MA, when from my experience the AI either stops trading with you or demands outrageous gpt (and I make sure my trade reputation is A-OK). Or do you simply extort techs from downtrodden rivals?

What do I need culture pops for? Or cathedrals? 6 luxes is usually not a problem, on Demigod the AI is fast to connect all their resources, and they also build harbors (contrary to the lower levels...)
If you can't get 6 luxuries, build horsemen instead of temples and then go capture those resources. That solves your happiness problem much more efficient than temples and cathedrals...

Research still works ok up to Deity. Of course you will be behind during the ancient age and most of the medieval age, but by the end of the medieval age you should have caught up and be the tech leader, even on Deity. I prefer doing my own research, benefiting from reduced tech costs (get many contacts!) by researching tech known to everyone, or if I see a chance to get a monopoly tech before the AI does (see alexman's study on AI tech preferences - or was it Bamspeedy?!), I go for it and try to trade tech for tech instead of gpt for tech. That only makes you more backward. Also, once the AIs start warring with each other, there will sooner or later be a beaten down backward AI that will trade tech for tech with you. (Start fomenting wars on the other continent early, while they still can't get at you...)

On these levels you simply have to get used to "playing from behind" for quite a while. Also, lack of horses/iron can be overcome by a poor-man's army of Longbows, Trebuchets and Spears. Quantity instead of quality... That can be quite effective.