SGOTM 20 - Phoenix Rising

I can't look for at least 30-45 min. Probably best to call it and go get some sleep.

Yep off to bed after ironing here. Really tired.

162 short of Machinery, but we should get 183 beakers at current research rate once the research bonus is applied.

I guess we move both triremes 1S of the barb boat and hope he attacks us. We can't attack, and i can't think of any clever way to split them up.

Orleans attack with all units
Current loaded galley can drop HAs on pig tile. If we want the sword on the next boat he needs to get unloaded on the gems though. We could drop him on the gems on T107, then 3T to get him to the furs, but he wouldn't be able to attack until T111. Maybe we can DoW and teleport to the fur tile? Always hard to say where they will go, but we can maybe test this. If we were on the mine 1SW of Orleans we might get bumped to the furs with movement left to attack on T110.

Last 2 HAs (if dropped on pigs) would get dropped on T108 and could be on the same mine on T110 with .5 mp left, so they could also do the teleport thing if it works, and all units could be ready on T110. Without the closed borders bump it would be T111.

By my count that is 12 HAs, 1 GG HA, 1 sword, and Lewis (CG 2 archer). Among the HAs would be 2x C3, 1x C2 + Shock, 1x C2 w/ 3rd promo available, 1x C1 + Shock, 1x C2, and 2x C1 w/ a free promo. The last three would just have 1 promo, and we also have the GG.

Alternative plan (faster, less units)
Leave the sword behind, and just grab 2 more HAs. The last boat with sword and remaining HA will just be reinforcements or used for Rheims attack. Last HAs unload on pigs tile on T106. We could attack on T108 if the closed borders bump works, and T109 if it does not. That's 2 turns faster with 2 less units.


I think the faster attack is better, but the danger here is that we may have to absorb a counter attack immediately. Our C2 guy with the free promo should be saved for Formation if at all possible. Still, i think a 2T faster attack is worth sacrificing 2 units - we will still have 11 HAs + GG HA + Lewis.

Edit: The closed borders bump worked in my test game. I would really like for somebody else to check this too though.

Sorry about being away today, seeing that we actually used a spy in Konya and did not finish LH by 1h makes me think we really need to be careful with these guys and tile changes

Espio points need a new target, Vicky?

We can split ours up under the barb Tri, 1N and other NE.
No matter which gets attacked, other one can attack next turn should we lose.

Hmm actually i wonder if seeing Augi's cities with even more EP could help us scouting..
or we could try that with Vicky, seems unlikely Augi's cities will reveal much helpful.
..anyways i will log in and change some stuff, like removing hold growth in Palace now cos that was my idea.

Hindu island should whip granary, then work 2 fish next turn and do 1 turn of hold growth.
Or work fish + iron then no hold growth needed.

Izu i think we are not in hurry with attacking Orleans, we want some Maces who can start an attack anyways too?
Many turns until we actually need Rep. it's all preparation only currently for me.
Sooner we attack, he will make peace with Lou and it's all on us.

i think Gazi should whip now and skip that 1 cottage (will grow back next turn already), anyways uploading with the city changes and Tris in place.

But anyways, so we can focus on current stuff..i think we can leave sword and 1 HA behind.
Or should i go sleep?

Well if we want all units we should grab the sword next, so he needs to move towards the boat. I'm fine with delaying the attack if you think there's no rush. We should try to get 4 maces ready for the follow up on Rheims if we delay though.

I didn't notice Konya working a spy earlier, that's odd. I think that citizen was assigned to the copper tile. Best thing is to always cycle through all cities before ending turn though because sometimes adjusting tiles between cities can lead to stuff like this happening.

What's the rush on the Gazi whip? Follow it up immediately with a WB whip?

Well he can do that anyways, men are complicated sometimes :b

I think if we keep sword and HA back, then add 2 maces..it's not 4 maces attacking (but we could upgrade 1 if we get some gold), but 4 units for Rheims still with 2 maces who can do the worst defenders.

Copper can finish mace next turn, then we only need a faster chain for that guy and a whip in Hindu.

We are holding Gazi back if not whipping this turn, and only for 1 more cottage growth turn and i think that's not good.
Works so nice with whipping, losing 2 food needed and growing back next turn.

Yep..Palace can take all cottages next turn, Gazi +3 crabs but we only get that if we whip now.
I see Gazi as nice GP farm (already has Reli too), so i think we should get moving here cos we will not get around whipping that LH there are no hammers.

I dunno just looks like exchanging 2C for 1F which are fairly equivalent to me. If we follow that up with a 1T faster WB whip though we might be able to turn it into something more significant.

You prefer 2nd mace out of Hindu? We should have time to finish the granary before switching to mace and whipping, right?

One other thing about whipping - we need to check our beakers. Losing some beakers doesn't hurt here, but dropping from 50% to 40% would hurt. Every 2 commerce lost will cost us 1 more GPT unless the whips lower maintenance to compensate. Nevermind, your new upload has us at 0gpt instead of -7.

Speaking of GP farms, have we given up on that with Rostov? Should we just cottage that place or build some farms?

Not sure about Maces yet, but i think whipping Hindu now (and OF into mace) works best cos we will get into conflict with the new fish if we are not.
We need all hammers for 2 turn granary, and so we could not work both 6f tiles..i did not do exact maths on that, but seems worse.

Rostov could do Glib or NE, unless we will not get Lit (and that seems somehow bad too cos they are cheap techs).
350h for Glib would be very much doable. Our other big food cities lack forests or stored hammers for that.

We might even tech those 2 soon cos they will be great for selling for gold too, it's no loss imo.

Whipping away iron tile right now is definitely best for the food situation. We lose a good many hammers over the next few turns, but the whole idea is to turn the food here into hammers to compensate, so that should be fine. The mace will take awhile without whipping again though. Whipping next turn might actually be the best mix of the two. I think we lose 3F total compared to whipping now, but gain quite a few hammers.

I like going for Aesthetics and Lit next too. There's a lot more potential benefit from those two techs than Paper or Philo right now, and i don't think we are going to get Aesthetics in a trade - at least not soon enough to help.

Some of our units..i think the chariot will not be needed in gems city, Lou would hold all barbs here.
Also marble will get no barbs, and our warri in Lou culture could go back city guarding somewhere.
Both city guards i think.

Unsure about furry builds, Lou has our other Fur now so no border pop needed.
CH whip at size 4 maybe, 5 if we like keeping fur but trade between gold saved and few beakers should be bad.

Ankara boat whip cos there's no turning back on that plan now (and i think was good getting another scout boat for west).

Jake could chop Rostov forest, then farm. It's fine having no improved tiles here for now, not great but getting hammers first seems better. Most pop will go into specialists, and until then 2f1c tiles work.

Not sure about JC's gold..i guess we might as well sell him currency now. He might get that from Cathy otherwise.
Might make him gather more gold again too.

Different idea for Gazi maybe, we could take cows and whip next turn.
Palace has all cottages anyways now and can afford a bit slower growth.

That way we can also whip only LH next turn, and finish a boat with hammers.
Or whip 1 boat, get another with hammers.
I think that's better. When boats are done, we can give cows back.

Well i am getting restless and will play this one, Gazi will take cows and Hindu delay whip until next turn. Selling JC currency for 60g cannot be wrong too.
Shipping 2 HAs and sword + last HA can be backup.

HAs while they have time in Nappy land are hugging coast, for the small chance we see an AI boat.

Barb Tri did not attack, headache..

@ Elite - If you go to the city detail screen. It will show which cities are running which specialists.

These barb triremes could be very frustrating if they start to pillage but not attack. Looks like the second one is heading south now too. Can we distract one with a workboat? Make it head off around map? It may get annoying if it targets our galleys.

Okay, feel like a complete idiot now with the spy. I was checking through all cities several times, especially the old Russian territory and especially to see that there were no spies. But apparently I somehow missed Konya... Thanks for that tip Gumby, I actually did use the city detail screen to check for specialists the turn before that, but for some reason I didn't last turn.

Anyway, I'm going out tonight and can't play. Someone else can take over for now if you feel like playing.

Hate to say it but we might have to just attack and build another trireme ASAP in horse. The other thing we could try is stashing our galleys away in Hindu or Istanbul after they make their final drops. They might be willing to attack our triremes if the galleys are gone. It seems like the seafood drew them out because we were moving galleys for quite some time without them doing anything, but that trireme doesn't look like it's attempting to pillage any seafood.

We could move the eastern of our two triremes into Hindu this turn and then protect our galley with that next turn when it unloads. The other trireme can follow in case it needs to mop up. I'd really hate to have to attack these guys.

Do we want to chop for Bursa as quickly as possible? Wouldn't hurt to just get it done in case an opportunity arises, right? And do we chop the deer? We can get enough hammers without it, but it would be faster to get them if we chop the deer forest.

Eastern trireme into Hindu is good, the other trireme could move to south of barb trireme. From there it can protect our empty galley doing it's final shipment. If we decide to attack it could be good to do it in a position where one of the galleys could mop up in case the barb is left at very low HP.

Empty galley to where the loaded galley is now seems best. It could hide in Hindu as well, but then there is a risk that the barb trireme will block it's way to pick up the last guys.

I think chopping quickly in Bursa will be good.
Lou should have sugar for trade soon, that will be nice, he would also have almost all other Calendar res probably if not for Nappy attacking
So i think we will not have any happy problems somewhere, and can plan with that for now.
(i.e. Horse could mace whip, as barracks city without worry about anger)

Tris..well we could put them both sw of iron, and attack if this goes for our galleys. We would have galleys as backup, should we get really bad results.
If we want to delay and hope they attack our Tris..then what you guys suggested.
But if we put #1 into Hindu, and #2 sw of iron we risk that we lose the fight next turn and then cannot reach the barb Tri if he flees west.

I think the other one can be distracted with horse workboat next turn.

I was just thinking, we could build the Colossus in Konya.
Big forge whip at size 8, chop 2 forests. Easy wonder.
Nice use for that cities big growth, considering it's still 12 turns until golden age.
Moscow would be fine with crappy tiles (and give Konya Rice + copper for even faster growth and hammers) for another mace whip at size 4, food bin over-full.

Scout Trireme 1E or NE? Was not sure here, it's possible we lose 1 movement and find nothing 1E but maybe we better make sure there's no way here.

First unit shipping North..i was thinking we can start with 2 Mace and 2 Sword, 1 galley can load Moscow Mace in Konya, and other one can load Nova Mace in Pete. We will want another 4 for shipping #2, 1 Sword will be here so 3 more maces..Moscow, Pete and Yaro..with Yaro being slow, could be replaced with Nova whip if we want.

I'll work on a plan for chopping Bursa. Opinions on chopping the deer tile? I don't think it's necessary, but it would probably speed things up a bit because there's 1 forest that no worker can move to easily (2W1N of Bursa), and the deer tile has a road already. I think building 1 mine here early would be good too. I'm gonna try to work that in along with the 6 chops. Long-term we can easily work the 4 grass mines + silver here and still have some food to spare. That's 18 base hammers even after chopping deer.

I would be hesitant to leave our triremes more than 1 tile apart due to what Fippy said - we could end up out of range to mop up. I would either put them both SW of iron or put 1 in Sindu and the other 1N of iron. Not sure i have much of an opinion on which to do.

Colossus idea sounds pretty interesting. We might have to obsolete it with Astro later to reach the southern barb cities, but nobody else can even build it yet, so we have some time to get more info.

Lets move the scout trireme 1E and just cover all possibilities. Losing 1 tile of movement won't kill us.

I need to look over that northern troop movement more. I started to this morning before work, but i ran out of time before i got very far with it.

Yep Bursa could be really good for mom. With 3-4 workers should work out well. Even if louis builds the wonder that is not a bad thing?

Each forge adds +3 happiness now. A market +2 happiness. Our UB + 2 happiness. Plus a crazy amount of resources. A final task might be to have 1 of every resource on map? Hmmm.

Trireme wise. Will they both head towards the galleys? If we put them in Istanbul remember the number of turns between city revolts? 20? How long after city capture? Danger of cities revolting with galleys in the cities being kicked out somwhere silly.

Both SW of iron means we can't protect the 2 fish boat. Perhaps we could use galleys to mop up a Trireme attack by us. Risky?
1NW of Sindhu might protect fish but might leave galleys at risk.
Also not easy to release wb for him to follow.

Collosus looks good. Konya looks good.

GP farm. What about Rheims?? Would have 4 decent seafood resources.
Ankara would be okay. 3 decent food resources.
Sindhu and Konya to date have best food surplus. Ankara would also not be bad.

1E for scout Trireme. I think it is a small land mass and I would rather be south of it than north to find the AI.