Minimus Maxibus vs Scary Monsters (Deity, Hem, Larg, Norm)

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
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Feb 9, 2010
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Location
Cantaloupe Island
Ever thought to yourself:
"I can win this easy-peasy, this is only Deity...
Hey, look ! I don't even need to use both hands !"

Then welcome into the wonderful world of Minimus Maxibus.

The map settings are :
Deity difficulty
Hemispheres template, Massive continents (2), Tiny islands
Large size of map
Normal speed
Low sea level
Standard number of opponents (9 teams)
Random civilization, random opponents

Here's the start :


You're playing as Montezuma. Being green and all, you're given what experienced gamers would call an excellent start (are you experienced ?). Will that be enough to defeat your opponents ? Being green, that is.
Of course, you might want to play as cheese master Hammurabi (best city names) but : this is no Civ2 ! Raise your hopes down. Montezuma will do just fine.


Greetings, cheers & good luck (if you need it) !


Help section :
Spoiler :
Notice about Large maps :
Spoiler :
Tech costs are higher than on Standard size.


On early survival :
Spoiler :
Barbarians enter borders from turn 35.
The combination of Low sea level and Standard number of opponents means you should be prepared. Either connect metal, horses or research Archery by turn 50.
Under these settings, maps are rare that allow the player to bypass barbarian defence. Fortunately, you're not spawning by the tundra.


On the later stages of the game :
Spoiler :
You can expect very fast expansion from the Deity AIs. Barbarians don't trouble them as much as you.
Early Empires stabilize around 12 to 15 cities. So if you're going to war around 1500 AD, don't expect the AIs to come at you peacemeal.


And since you're Green, on colour analysis in the game of Civilization :


Now you should be prepared.
Remember : you were born wearing pants.
 

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I've made a quick survivability check before posting the map,
Up to 2000 BC.
Hence, I can assure you it is very playable (although not totally busted).

Help yourself, the save is at hand,
Enjoy :)


Serious tip :
If you're unsure about the course of action, don't play on. Stop the game.
A stopped game isn't being lost and helps further reflexion.
Even if you're high on reloading, it helps making the right decision.
You can also post your game state in this thread and ask for advice.
 
T55
Spoiler :


Agri-wheel-pot-AH-min-BW. Maybe should have skipped either AH or BW, as now I'm a bit late on writing. Asoka has medi, poly, mono, theo (oracled), arch, mason, wri, alpha on me. Not giving writing for BW+pot :sad:.

Going writing now I guess, but I don't see a way to get alpha-trade from Asoka (aesth feels useless for me). Glad I have :espionage: on him though.

 
So what should I research after agriculture :confused:

edit:
Spoiler :
so many happies and so little food :(
 
@ Soundjata :

Spoiler :
After Agriculture is researched, considering 3 corns,
BW would be the tech of choice to maximize production.
--> RExing.

The stake at this point is twofold :
- claim land and strong tiles (resources)
- increase your research potential

If you can claim commerce specials, then fine,
If you can't, then you'll have to get Pottery quick to raise your commerce output and combat maintenance.
--> Need to be careful and not go broke before Pottery is in (e.g. settling 5 cities)
Riverside helps.

If you go Agri --> Pottery, I'd strongly consider Archery next, for timing reasons.

Note that city spots are somewhat affected by the tech path.
Whipping favours tile sharing. Chopping, not so much.
 
@ Sampsa :

Spoiler :
I think AH is the unnecessary tech you researched.
It unlocked the cows alone. While they're a good tile, opening chops/whips is (way) better.

Pottery first can be argued for, although it is a loss in early production.

I'm glad to see our runs play out similar.
- barbs were easy to deal with early on (that is a forgiving start)
- Asoka got early Alphabet and spreads religion
- Churchill expanded like a madman
- we settled the same first 3 spots

The religious spread is a little different in my game (we're Buddhist, Ramsess is Jewish)
and Asoka didn't get the Oracle (good for you, AP goodness incoming).

Be warned that there are barbarians running around somewhere on this map.
I'm not sure why exactly their rush has been so soft but be assured you'll need some kind of defences, if only to expand further and secure city spots.
Thankfully : oh ! Look ! Copper ! Now that's a kind mapmaker :lol:
 
To 2000 BC.
It went like this:

Spoiler :
Initial settling :
The plains hills 2S1W may be worth settling, so the scout moves 2N2E to see what would be lost by moving.
Scout reveals an extra corn within the BFC, so we SIP.

The scout then explores the area to the north, reveals some riverside and finds a close neighbour : Asoka.
By turn 5, some appealing land is known to the north, although floodplains mean resources are scarce. There is jungle down south, which should have more resources but also requires more tech to develop.
Agriculture is selected as the first tech :
Spoiler :


The scout now heads south, on our western borders.
Soon, we meet Churchill, coming from the East, Stalin coming from the North-West and Ramesses coming from somewhere in the South.
Asoka has founded Buddhism. If we share religion, he will easily become Friendly with us. On the other hand, Asoka's favourite civic is Free Religion and that is problematic, since it means he may head straight for Liberalism.
Espionage points are split between Churchill and Asoka for the time being. Before having a clear idea of what the diplomacy will be like.

With three corn tiles, we have an overload of food. Research is set to Mining --> Bronze Working.
Bronze unlocks chops & whips and is crucial to the early land grabbing. Although we do not want to go broke (so a balance will have to be found).

Worker is out and starts farming our corn tiles. Tenochtitlan will grow to size 4 on this food excess and will then start on a settler. Meanwhile, a warrior is produced.

Turn 28, the corns aren't even all improved and the capital has grown to 4. Settler it goes :
Spoiler :


The intended spot for city two is by the rice tile, 1NW of where the warrior is standing.
From this point on, it becomes quite clear that we won't grab any very early commerce special (gold).
So, somehow, we need to raise the commerce output.
That means working riverside (floodplains) and settling by the river, so as to get free trade routes. A city by the cows and oasis would be nice as well but requires The Wheel to connect.

Turn 30,
We lose the scout to jungle barbs. But not before he revealed Gems, Dyes and an abundance of Bananas :
Spoiler :


We can't settle there just yet but it's good to know we have powerful prospective city sites so close by.
Stone is also in sight but not really in a location that can be used. It's too far off the river and the standard tech path.
Given the absence of luxury resources, the most standard tech path shall be preferred, so we can actually develop the land.

Turn 33, Bronze Working is done and BFC copper is revealed (!). Worker loses a movement point and sets to mine the Bronze instead of chopping the forest it had gone into.
Research is set to The Wheel, Pottery. We need The Wheel to connect resources and cities. We need Pottery to actually research.
With Bronze Working, we'll also have an easy time setting up early Granaries, which is awesome given the amount of food we have.

Warrior protects the site for city 2.
Eventually, turn 37, Teotihuacan is settled and the copper is improved.
City starts on a warrior with the intent to whip a worker at size 2.
Meanwhile, Tenochtitlan completes the 2nd warrior.
Spoiler :


Asoka and Churchill are getting their 4th city. Ramesses has founded Judaism.
The Great Wall has been built by an unknown civilization.
Russia completes the Stonehenge.

After the warrior is done, Tenochtitlan immediately starts on a settler (no happiness to grow to 5) and the warrior is sent to scout NE around the oasis and cows.
The worker chops a forest before roading corn & copper towards city 3 :
Spoiler :


Turn 43, in the North West, we get to see Stalin's borders. The land in-between isn't too good with only a few strong specials. So that won't be a preferred direction for expansion.
The warrior stops scouting and defends on a nice blocking forested hill. By the lake, it can intercept most barbs coming from the South-West. We can count on Stalin and Asoka to take care of the barbs from the north :
Spoiler :


At the same time, in the East, the settler is out and ready to settle next turn :
Spoiler :


Asoka's city doesn't give us much choice in the matter : city will be 1SE of the cows.
On the above screen, you can see as well that Tenochtitlan has followed the settler with another warrior. Working all corns and the copper, the city has 13H and grows into unhappiness. So we forgo working 1 corn for this turn, so the city can happily grow to 5 by completing the Warrior in one turn.
This may actually be a case of wrong micro : the way I did, over 2 turns, the city will have 13F vs 14F if working the corn all the way. It does get an extra commerce from the floodplains, though, and 2 hammers from the forest. Debattable.

You can see the copper will be connected on T45.
So Tenochtitlan spends one turn building Barracks and Tlatelolco starts on a Monument (place holders). Then the cities will switch to Axemen.
More important, Tlatelolco borrows a corn from the capital to grow asap.

At his point, we can feel secure about barbarians, with the ability to whip 5 strength units.
Teotihuacan has reached size 2 and switched to build a Worker (requires 30H/60).
And the warrior scouting to North-East has revealed 2 strong food tiles :
Spoiler :


Rice and pigs.
The worker is in position to chop and Tenochtitlan will start on a settler at size 6. With Pottery incoming, that settler is worth whipping, especially if we can overflow hammers into the Granary.

At this point, only a few EPs are lacking to view Asoka's research, so we fully invest our points upon him.

Turn 47, Asoka is willing to open borders. Fine ! And may you send us missionaries !
Religion would actually be a great help, given the lack of happy resources.

Turn 50, 2000 BC, end of this set :
Spoiler :


Churchill has settled a city to our North-West, blocking any convenient way to grab the rice tile. So we'll target the pigs (make it to the sea !!). The man has 6 cities : he won't tech fast for starters but he may catch up very dangerously once his land kicks in.
Teotihuacan is 1 turn from whipping our 2nd worker... and is now producing culture ! Buddhism has just spread to us. There's also a missionary incoming.
Tenochtitlan has just whipped its settler. The target tile is where the warrior is standing : by the sea, with pigs in the first ring.
There will be 43 overflow hammers.
The worker by Tenochtitlan has an interesting choice between starting on a cottage or chopping a forest (hint : chop first, cottage later).
Asoka's culture is right at the gates of Tlatelolco : that's pretty good for us, since it means he'll take care of the road network and grant us free foreign trade routes.
Research is set to Animal Husbandry before Writing. Which may or may not be a good decision. For now, it would only serve improve the pigs. But it's hard to tell whether the tech will be useless for later cities or not. Also, it reveals horses. It's a conservative choice to research AH.

Other news from the world ?
The Oracle has been completed by an unknown civilization on 2080 BC.
We're pretty close to seeing Asoka's research :
Spoiler :


Next time, we complete Granaries, get a few axemen, a worker here and there and then some more settlers.
Target : get a healthy number of cottages to allow research and a large chunk of land to avoid being helpless in front of the AIs.

All updates won't be as thorough as this one. Early game matters the most.
 
hmm... I'm not sure about that :mischief:
I believe you can, yes. I seem to recall BUFFY and BUG are compatible.

Can't check for sure because I don't have BUFFY installed at the moment.
Best bet is you try it :goodjob:


Even if it is heavier, I agree BUFFY's interface is convenient and switching back to BUG can be disappointing (specialist management comes to mind).

EDIT :
I'm quite sure one can't open BUFFY saves with BUG but I think the other way around works.
I'd try :
- cut/paste 4000 BC save into your save folder
- open civ, load a mod, load BUFFY
- load save.
 
Try opening it without BUFFY, enter worldbuilder, save as worldbuilder file. Then open that file with BUFFY.
 
Try opening it without BUFFY, enter worldbuilder, save as worldbuilder file. Then open that file with BUFFY.
Yes, this is the way to do it. But then you have to go back into worldbuilder to give barbs the techs they should have. And along the way you'll get some spoilers like which AI are in the game and whatever you happen to see in worldbuilder.

Here's a BUFFY save to save you from the spoilers.
 

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Thank you :love:.

I try it.
I dont know do i even remember how to play on normal, no gold start after Gauntlet :lol:.
I dont see anyreason to not sip maybe if theres some more FP in north i will consider to settle 1N we will c.
 
Thanks, Sampsa and Elitetroops :)

@ Yyeah :
Good luck !
In a general fashion, I dislike posting maps where the settling location isn't clear to me.
You can scout and see for yourself, maybe you'll find gold, gems, marble and bananas :goodjob:
 
I settled 1N xD, dont regret it .
And i found something :) iam bad :), will post something around 500AD.
 
Well... don't feel bad about it :blush:

Despite the appearances, this should be a very tough map to beat.
Settings are mean (low sea, few opponents).

I've never beaten these settings. I took only a handful of these maps to 1 AD (mostly Fractals), from the time I started generating them (in January ?).

What I can say is :
You've played really fast, if you're close to 500 AD already. I've played to 1320 BC only.

Hopefully, someone actually good at this game can come in and show us how it's done :lol:
 
Its ok, i need to get back on my standard lvl of play on normal speed.
This map is great to remind me some stuff.

Yea this maps are hard for me too lots of things depends about whats going on others continents.
 
To 1320 BC, Writing -->???
If you read this and have any suggestions to make regarding the tech path, I'm all ears :)

Spoiler :
Research is now set to Animal Husbandry.
Teotihuacan whips its worker, that will be set to cottage some floodplains.
Meanwhile, the worker by Tenochtitlan proceeds to chop a forest.
Asoka is sending us a missionary. Adopting Buddhism instantly makes him Pleased.
Capital city gets its Granary from whip overflow and a few hammers:
Spoiler :



7+7 = 14H/28
52+8 = 60H/60
This wasn't calculated but this is an optimal Granary build.

Bad news in the East: Asoka is threatening the pigs spot with 2-moves settler party:
Spoiler :


Our settler will have no choice but to settle 1N, with pigs in the 2nd ring. This is quite bad, since it means the city will need culture to protect its power tile.
The city won't be connected to our trade network for a while. It will need a border pop (hopefully from religion). Once Asoka will have connected us, the lack of trade network will lose us 2 commerce per turn (non-negligible).
A worker could be used to road up there but that is work for 8 turns (!). Can't afford that: cottaging is much better.
On the bright side, this northern area looks very secure (from barbarians).
Spoiler :


So the city starts on a granary, in hope for Buddhism to spread. A Monument may still be whipped, but there is no need to invest hammers into it at the moment (before growing to 2).
Asoka will trade silver for this turn but I don't have anything to offer. Next turn the deal will be off, he'll be getting Iron from Churchill for his happy resource.

Some slight barb harassment comes from the South. But, with the Granary done in Tenochtitlan and hammers from a chopped forest, there's no real issue, there.
Spoiler :


The Axeman goes 1S and skips turn. The warrior from Tlatelolco goes on standby 1SW of the city...
... and the barbs are cleared :
Spoiler :



Meanwhile, the 2 workers are teaming up to cottage faster the floodplains between Tenochtitlan and Teotihuacan.
We have enough espionage on Asoka to see his research. He'll have Alphabet in two turns. It will be a long time before we can trade anything to him, however. Pretty please, Asoka, would you gift me tech ?

Turn 57, a second Granary is on the way in Tlatelolco.
A Granary is a minimus problemus that comes with maxibus benefitus. So it's often worth solving a few turns ahead.
Here, we're comparing two columns.
On the left, the city works max food and whips this turn.
On the right, the city maximizes hammers and whips when it reaches 30H/60.
Every turn, columns go down until the city grows back to size 4 again. A simple means to assess which option is best :
Spoiler :


So we'll whip 1 pop and Tenochtitlan can work the corn for the time being.
A minor trick :
The city has 1 hammer stored and produces 9H/turn. 3*9=27. It lacks two hammers to whip on T60.
To get those hammers, we can either work a grass forest for 2 turns, forgoing a floodplains, or work a plains forest for 1 turn. Despite the fact that working the plains forest loses 1F on that turn, both options come out with the same amount of food. And working the plains forest comes out 1 commerce ahead.

The axeman is sent to scout South-East, where Churchill is menacing to grab insane amounts of land. Hopefully, he'll find a city spot. Tenochtitlan grows to 7 in a turn and will start on a settler.
Spoiler :


Turn 60, 1600 BC,
The granary is whipped in Tlatelolco and the city also gets religion. Good ! With cows in the first ring, that tile will be controlled effortlessly.
Texcoco is growing to size 2 next turn. It could switch to a Monument to get culture and control over the pigs tile. However, a Buddhist Missionary is spotted, so I'll refrain from doing that just now. I'd rather have the free culture.
Cows are discovered in the South-East and a worker starts roading there, in anticipation for a city spot. Churchill is keeping up his expansion and has now claimed the eastern rice. If we want to prevent him from carpetting the map with cities, South-East is the only place to expand.
Spoiler :


The other worker remains cottaging (a little slowly...).
Asoka and Stalin are crowding the map with units. That's why we didn't have any barb troubles. In addition, borders with Churchill and Asoka are so close that barbs can't meddle in.

Bye-bye, Missionary, you were just passing by. I'll whip my Monument after all. Protecting that pigs tile will be tough. Texcoco will need some heavy culture.
Spoiler :


Can you see it ?
Spoiler :


Yes, that's a spot for the Heroic Epic.
At this point, it's clear that we're being late to Writing. Researching Animal Husbandry played a big part in that delay. However, now discovering Horses in a good blocking location makes me feel better about it.
Let's say we just sacrificed some research. Maybe we can stay in the race from behind and eventually catch up.
Tenochtitlan has no use whipping that settler, especially since the road isn't complete. Whipping now would only gain 1 turn on the settling.

This same turn, t62, is a good turn to plan for Teotihuacan's Granary. Indeed, the worker has finished the 3rd cottage and the city is 3 turns from size 3.
Here it goes :
Spoiler :


The worker can chop 1 forest : 20H
City at size 3, working a forested plains produces 3H/turn = 9H over 3 turns.
Meanwhile, it produces 3*3 = 9 food.
If we aim to 1pop whip, the city will gain 4 food (working 2 floodplains) the turn it completes the granary. Making it 14F/24. Not optimal but very much acceptable.
To get the hammer that lacks, the grass forest will be worked for a turn at size 2 (hence the use of planning ahead).

On the left on the above pic, Asoka's chariot is actually escorting a settler.
Asoka spawned by the sea, in the tundra and lacks space to expand into. So now he circles us. He won't DoW us at Pleased, so we're safe. It's also appreciable that he'll serve as a buffer between Stalin and us. Hopefully, Stalin will join the Buddhist gang, too.

Turn 64 clearview :
Spoiler :


Tlatelolco is starting on the 3rd worker (will whip next turn).
Tenochtitlan is completing the settler for the 5th city.
Granary advances as intended in Teotihuacan. I feel safe about the barbs so our fogbusting warrior is called back to garrison.
Asoka's missionary is still hanging around. India goes for Mathematics and has settled Agra by our borders.
Churchill is getting out of control, as it seems he's meant to be and has his 8th city.

When the worker is out, he heads straight for Texcoco with the intent to chop a forest into the Granary. Then he'll improve the pigs. Buddhism has spread so the city is only 4 turns from popping borders.
Tenochtitlan has completed its axeman with the settler's overflow and Tlatelolco will complete another with the worker's overflow. That will be 3 axemen for us.
Spoiler :


1320 BC, turn 67, end of this set. Status and objectives for the future :
We have Writing and an important tech decision to make.

Tlaxcala is settled by the horses and immediately starts on its Granary.

Tenochtitlan is size 8, can grow to 9 in 2 turns and will start on its Library this turn. It can 3 pop the Library, overflowing hammers into a settler and start hiring scientists.
At this point, the prospective city sites are south, south-west. Due to happy cap issues, we can't work that many tiles with our cities and hiring scientists won't make things any better. So I'd like a helper city by Tenochtitlan to grow cottages. 3S is good location, that can work 2 Bananas long term (and produce GPs).

Texcoco and Teotihuacan will need a lot of culture to protect their tiles. Thoses two cities are going straight Granary into Library.
That leaves Tlatelolco to work with. It will produce at least an extra worker and aim to go Barracks --> Axemen.

Clearview :
Spoiler :


I know (I just know ^^) some Barb cities have spawned somewhere over the map and I'd love to capture (or even raze) some of them. The capture gold is badly needed. And the denying value is pretty strong, too.
So our 3 axes are going to scout the jungle South, South-East and hope to be in time.
I'd also like to find Ramesses' borders, so as to know how much room there is to expand into. In the East, at least, we've secured some space.
Spoiler :


At this point, I can't help but point out we're only doing 17 gold at 100% slider. We need at least 200 gold to research another tech. Only 3 tiles are cottaged and, surely, that isn't enough. Cottaging wide and fast is now a high stake. Maybe roading to the horse site was a mistake, after all, and keeping the worker closer to cottage more would have been better.

So further settling will require some care. Workers and Axemen may be more desirable. Although I'd really like to protect that stone tile we can see, before settling further south.
I need an update on Stalin's borders, too. Interestingly enough, Asoka is Stalin's worst enemy and the two haven't opened borders. Maybe a war will break out and we'll get some opportunity.

Tech wise,
Aesthetics offers some nice options. It's a safe trade bait. It means I can store beakers into Alphabet (even after hiring scientists). It may grant wonders to our continent. And it makes us closer from both the National and Heroic Epic.
I'm very much tempted, however, to make the mistake of going for Metal Casting (and discovering after the fact that everyone already has it). Being first to MC would allow to backfill a tremendous amount of techs (including CoL or Currency) and would put us closer to Astronomy.
For now, Asoka will complete Maths and he'll surely have the time to research another big tech (maybe even 2 or 3, he's researching so fast...) before we're ready to raise the slider again.
This feels uncomfortable. The earlier Writing from Sampsa may place him in a much better position at this point, at least tech-wise.
There's also the possibility to research HBR. AIs have iron, so it's not very likely they'll research that (or is it ?). An upside would be to get 1 step closer to War Elephants. There's a possibility that our axemen discover Ivory in the jungle (would be very much appreciated, if only for the happiness).

I'm not sure how bad it is to slow down research, at this point, and settling further. Earlier Alpha trade would allow to mine the gems but, apart from that, running behind may not be too bad. Provided we get enough land to make up for it.
 
To 1000 BC:
This update will be simpler.
Spoiler :
A few good things and a couple of bad ones happen.

Research is set to Alphabet at 0% science slider. Stays that way after scientists are hired, so I'm not really headed towards Metal Casting. Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow when I get back to play.
Asoka is going for Calendar. (And Ramesses will get Monarchy.)

Tenochtitlan goes:
- 1 turn into Library
- Whip Library and immediately regrow to 6 (1 unhappy)
- Hire 2 scientists and start on a settler.

Tlatelolco goes:
- grow to 4 (1 unhappy for a turn), switch from Barracks to slowbuilding a Worker (4 turns)
- that worker starts cottaging the area while the city resumes Barracks
- it also gains control over the cows shortly after popping borders

Teotihuacan:
- completes granary
- resume spearman
- the aim, here, is to complete the spearman and 3 pop whip the Library at size 6
--> the city needs about 3 improved tiles, which it has.

Texcoco:
- we only have a slight advantage over the pigs.

Axemen explore the south and find Ramesses borders... closer than I expected.
The gems site is actually in danger!
So, once again, I'll prioritize chopping against cottaging to speed up the Settler in Tenochtitlan.

Worker by the horses is tasked to road to the gems.

Our Axemen actually open trade routes with Egypt. The man revolts into Hereditary Rule and soon is willing to trade us Wine for Corn. This is most welcome.

Now for the bad news:
Couldn't find a barb city.

If I settle the gems, Asoka is likely to get the stone tile. Or maybe I get a fast settler from Tlaxcala (city grows to 6 in 3 turns). I'm not sure how well that goes with my research prospects, though.

Ramesses spreads Judaism in Tlaxcala (horse city) right before Asoka would have spread Buddhism, there (missionary in place). So the city doesn't produce culture and...
… as it happens, Churchill has stolen the horse tile. We'll get it back but it is troublesome.

Confucianism has been founded in 1200 BC, in a far away land, as well as far too many wonders for my taste.
Our continent is actually in danger of being out-teched by the Scary Monsters overseas. Maybe we are the Super Creeps.

Few screenshots:
Spoiler :
1st scientists :
Spoiler :

A not optimal granary :
Spoiler :

Missionaries galore :
Spoiler :

Asoka's settler party, chop, chop, don't cottage (or cottage that fp in Tenochtitlan) :
Spoiler :

1000 BC clearview :
Spoiler :

Southern lands :
Spoiler :

Diplo :
Spoiler :

Wonders :
Spoiler :


Ah, yes, and here's that alarming log :
Spoiler :


Save is attached, if you wanna peek in.
 

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