Has diplo victory really become more difficult ?

Magean · Oct 12, 2013

Hi, I don't have enough time to play ATM, and just saw that a changelog had been posted for the fall patch.

I read this :

World Congress

Congress: Gain 2 Delegates from a failed World Leader proposal (was 1).
Congress: Made Diplo Victory more difficult by increasing the delegates needed to win (2 more on Duel, 7 more on Standard, 9 more on Huge). Also exposed delegate equation values to XML for future tweaking and ambitious modders.

City-State Influence: Cleaned up influence calculations when a City-State is killed, to ensure a future liberator will be the undisputed ally and receive the intended reward.

Ally influence is set to 45 (becomes Friends).
Friends influence is set to 15 (becomes Neutral).
Neutral influence is set to 0.
Negative influence remains as it was.
When liberated, the liberator's influence is set to 150 (becomes Ally).

And... doesn't it make diplo victory simply easier ? Since it's way easier to ally a CS (45 influence needed ?! What is this ?).
The (small, let's face it) increase in the number of required delegates won't compensate for it. :confused:

But, perhaps that the AI now pays more attention to competition on this matter. I hope so.

In BNW, I found diplomatic victories so easy that I simply bypassed them. Especially, each time I was in good position for science victory, diplomatic victory could in fact come sooner.

Thus, I'm asking for the opinion of gamers who playtested the beta patch.

Thanks in advance

Chapel · Oct 12, 2013

I am pretty sure the required amount of influence is the same, What they said there is when a city state is conquered all civs influence with it are set to that amount so if it is ever liberated the liberator is a guaranteed ally.

Browd · Oct 12, 2013

That was to avoid situations where someone, like Greece or Siam, had 200-300-400+ influence before the CS was killed off and were restored to essentially that level when the CS was liberated by someone else. Now they will be restored to 45 influence max when the CS is liberated. The liberator is then assured of ally status (at least initially).

Magean · Oct 12, 2013

Thanks ! I misread.

But, in overall, what are people's feedback on diplomatic victory ?

oedali · Oct 12, 2013

Slightly harder but still easily achievable, at least in Immortal. I don't think thr AI takes advantage of quests as well so one easy fix might be to cap the Active quests per city state to 1 and/or let all quest types expire after 30 turns (currently some expire after 30 but most are active permanently until you fulfill them)

Also make CS influence degrade faster (eg double speed) if above 100. or cap influence at 100 so crazy levels cannot be reached

(Ideal solution is to make AI compete better of course but that's more complex coding wise and I understand programmers don't wanna go that route at this stage of the game..)

eewallace · Oct 12, 2013

I've only played one full game with the patch and ended up with a diplomatic victory. It didn't seem significantly harder than before although other aspects of the game did--in particular, the AI tech speed. I had hoped for a space victory but took diplomatic victory (it is usually my back-up plan) because Casimir was in the game had almost twice as many points as the next person (me) and looked like he was going to have no problem finishing his spaceship before I did. (Emperor, Standard, Continents, Pachacuti)

joncnunn · Oct 13, 2013

I've not yet completed a full game with the patch yet.

On standard map size though, the break even point between early harder (higher base number to win) and later easier (faster gaining of delegates) is 3 1/2 rounds of voting.

Pre-patch when going Diplomatic I never needed more than 2 rounds of voting, so this does delay Diplomatic victory. There should be a few more games where Cultural victory would be faster.
The space race victory condition itself has been slowed down itself. (2X the gold needed than before to buy each part; also if you hand build the parts it's 2X more hammers)

Has diplo victory really become more difficult ?

Magean

Prince

Chapel

Chieftain

Browd

Dilettante

Magean

Prince

oedali

King

eewallace

King

joncnunn

Senior Java Wizard

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