The Enlightenment Era

The ItRD Cuirssaier is being used in EE, IIRC. But it would be a good idea to re-use Jan's art for Milling and the Mercenary Contracts tech (Mercenary Arms is from the New World scenario, IIRC), somehow. The art made for Isabella's Mission and Venice's whatever-it-was won't go to waste, however. They intend to either be used for ExCE or as a part of Philip II's revision of Isabella.
 
Just looking up cruisers and ironclads and now I think armor plating should come after steam power with navigation. As far as I can see, there were no sail-driven armoured ships, so having armour plating without steam power is pointless.

The role that the steam cruiser played in 19th century navies was as a light, fast scouting ship as opposed to the heavier ironclad which acted as the main guns of the navy. Cruisers are in this sense the industrial version of the caravel and ironclads of the frigate. This is a mistake made in the original game and your opportunity to fix it.

a) trials with iron plating occured at the same time early steam engines were fitted onto ships, true. However, before big ships of the line were fitted with steam engines (mostly in the French Navy in the 1830's-1840's and we're talking the 120-gun wooden first-rate monsters), most of them still relied on sail power. It were at least two decades before fully-armored steam-powered frigates the likes of Gloire and HMS Warrior appeared and ushered in a new era in the mid-19th century. During the Crimean war the French also had armored floating batteries that were not fitted with any engine, so armor plating per se is not tied to steam power.

b) in truth, Steam Power as a tech would have to come before Industrialisation, and be a late Enlightenment tech (think of steam engines of Cugnot and Trevithick that revolutionised ore and coal mining before the industrial revolution itself). However, as an abstract notion of mass-use of steam power in ships, it is in an -okay- place and I'm not willing to redesign that part of the tree. Steam Power is a tech that is directly linked to the Modern Era, and we didn't want to go so deep with moving tech connections around - only what's between the second line of Medieval and first line of Industrial techs to ensure that other eras connect in a vanilla way. Think more abstract, as most other techs are that way too.

c) the problem with Civ 5 representation of naval warfare is that there was no Renaissance heavy melee ship to take the bulk of the damage and have superior strength. Instead you had triremes and caravels which were pitifully weak, and only upgraded to heavy as hell ironclads (which themselves fall out of the role of light ships like the Caravel and the Destroyer that border it from both sides). We've rectified that problem by moving the caravel away from the upgrade path, and introduced Carrack and Galleon to come between Trireme and Ironclad. That way those are the 'ships of the line' every civ can have - and not only the Brits. Adding a Cruiser actually fits the role you describe now - the Frigate remains a weaker but faster ranged unit, able to scout out and harass, and so is the Cruiser - while heavy ships like Galleons are there to duke it out in major battles.

If we were to look at a transition we didn't address, it's the Galeass to Frigate. Galeasses were the heaviest oar-powered ships available to 15-16th century naval powers like Venice and Spain, they were few in numbers and formed the centre of the battle force. Transition to a light, fast Frigate of the 18th century - which was purely and auxiliary and exploratory ship - makes little sense. But changing it around wasn't as necessary as fixing the naval melee line.

The ItRD Cuirssaier is being used in EE, IIRC. But it would be a good idea to re-use Jan's art for Milling and the Mercenary Contracts tech (Mercenary Arms is from the New World scenario, IIRC), somehow.

ItRD Cuirassier was a slightly changed icon, and I prefer the icon we currently have in EE (more Napoleonic-era instead of a Renaissance looking guy). It doesn't need to be reused, as the icons are almost identical. Not sure where to use the other two though. Could be UBs in some civs maybe.
 
Really looking forward to this. Can't imagine how much work this must have taken, but it looks awesome.
 
ItRD Cuirassier was a slightly changed icon, and I prefer the icon we currently have in EE (more Napoleonic-era instead of a Renaissance looking guy). It doesn't need to be reused, as the icons are almost identical. Not sure where to use the other two though. Could be UBs in some civs maybe.

Well, actually, I don't mean that just reuse the icons in ItRD, but add units and techs from ItRD.
what about add a Renaissance version of Cuirassier(of course you can name it something else like pistoller) as a Renaissance era cavalry? as there is no main cavalry unit in Renaissance era now.
And what about add mercenary arms and/or mercenary contracts tech and its required-units ? as there is only one mercenary unit(landsknecht) in the game now.

Of course I know that this is the "Enlightenment era" mod, not the "Renaissance/Medieval era Revise" mod, but it won't be bad too add a little techs/units in Medieval/Renaissence era.
 
The point is though that the difference between a Knight, Cuirassier and Cavalry is roughly the same amount of tech tiers (2 or 3). Adding a Renaissance Cuirassier could be fun and I might consider it, but it reduces the tech difference to one tier and makes for a tiresome upgrade gold-cost-wise.
 
I think its better to keep the main cavalry line the way it is now...
Although, another mercenary unit would be nice.
 
It might be interesting if we could get a permission from the guy behind the mod "Mercenary Army Expanded", and use his Swiss Guard unit as a second mercenary unit. Would fit VERY nicely with the Enlightenment era theme, since Swiss soldiers were selling like hot buns in the 1700's.
 
It might be interesting if we could get a permission from the guy behind the mod "Mercenary Army Expanded", and use his Swiss Guard unit as a second mercenary unit. Would fit VERY nicely with the Enlightenment era theme, since Swiss soldiers were selling like hot buns in the 1700's.

I'm sure Pius would appreciate that very much :/
 
Wait, aren't you fighting with Pouakai? :p
 
Could you move railroads into the Industrial Era with the mod? Being only able to research them in the Modern Era has annoyed me ever since I started playing the game.
 
The code I've seen in the new version of the mod, at least, is this:

Code:
-- Moves the whole Tech Tree _ spaces to the right, except for Prehistorical Techs
-- (only works if this sql is above the Technologies.xml in the actions list!)

UPDATE Technologies
SET GridX = GridX + 6;

Admittedly, the Prehistoric Mod just has to move the entire tech tree, but I'm wondering if you could use a WHERE to move certain columns over.

I'm starting to think I might have to see if I can find a way to make my mod's tech tree more dynamic, storing the grid coordinate of something like Telecommunications and then using it to place all the other techs... but I'm not familiar enough with SQL to know how feasible that'd be.
Hmm, that might be useful. I wonder whether it'd be possible to do that only where GridX is already a certain value, meaning I could just say anything greater than 9 gets 2 more added onto it. As far as your mod goes, I think if it adds the Enlightenment and Prehistoric Era in as references then it should be fine, since if I can figure out how to use that code too it'll just handle all the positions automatically.

CPB (which is optional balance patch for CP as you probably know), does some extensive modification to tech tree.From rearranging technologies to adding new technology in modern era, like Corporation.So unless I misunderstood above description, CPB can potentially conflict with this mod, though, I don't know for certain because I didn't try, I have game in session but it's possible.

Anyway thanks for replying and I hope this helps.
From the sound of it it will likely conflict, but I've talked to Gazebo and we're going to try figure out how to go about getting support for the CPB so that both the mods can be used together

Silly question: Will the Explorer and Surveyor be able to upgrade on the fly, or will you have to upgrade them in your own territory like all other units? It would suck to have your Scouts/Explorers half way across the globe when you finish researching Exploration/Romanticism and have to slog them all the way back home to upgrade. :sad::cry:

EDIT: If they can't upgrade on the fly, maybe allow them to upgrade in Friendly/Allied CS territory and/or AI territory with whom you have Open Borders.
As much as I'd love to do this, I have a feeling that it's hardcoded and thus impossible without a DLL mod, which is a bit more heavy than what I was going for with this mod.

I saw the reddit post about this and I'm glad I found this. I have some thoughts about this because I really like what you've done. A thought on surveyors to make them more useful, because the term "surveyor" and the image you have for them seems to me like they might have a scientific interest. What if antiquity sites had to be discovered by surveyors the way barbarian camps are invisible when outside of vision until you discover them? I think it's odd that discovering archaeology makes all the antiquity sites in the known world visible, so having a surveyor scout out the territory would be cool. Your manor reminded me of a history course I took in university where we discussed the rise of liberal arts in the renaissance and how people were encouraged to pursue many different avenues of study of the liberal and natural sciences, which to me would create a huge influx of great people.

Speaking of surveyors, you could have a large amount of exploration based gameplay if there was more they could "discover" by scouting out territory- think 19th century explorations of the heart of the African and south American rainforests- they could find hidden resources or possibly even hidden natural wonders. I wouldn't suggest touching existing natural wonders, but wonders like El Dorado or the fountain of youth would be excellent examples of natural wonders that could only be found by surveyors. Since we already have mythical natural wonders like those, you could add Shangri-la or something. I think it would be interesting to have something like that.
That could be cool, but like I've said this mod tries to stay as close to Vanilla gameplay as possible. If something like what you've suggested is possible, I think it'd be best suited as a ModMod to the Enlightenment

While we're on the topic, what happened to national banks [national reserve?]? There are national wonders for like everything else but not for banks.
There used to be the National Treasury as a market National Wonder, but it got replaced in BNW by the East India Company. National Treasury could potentially be reincluded, but I'd be worried there's too much gold. If it can be balanced then I don't see why not.

The cruiser and ironclad should swap places on the tech tree, but other than that I think the mod's great!
Tech tree questions: why doesn't warships require gunpowder? Why does fertilizer require flintlock?
Put simply, gameplay vs realism. While it's not necessarily the most historically accurate, it suits the flow of the game better and makes more sense gameplay-wise.

Will the mod add extra events and decisions (when playing with the mod)?
Also, will it interact with piety?
In a perfect situation it would add more events, but if we can't get anyone to code them then obviously it won't have any.

Is it possible that EE mod also revise and add part of Medieval/Renaissance era tech/unit? Mostly from techs/units of JFD's ItRD scenrio, as ItRD has a very poor stablity and JFD is no more work on it, it is almost a dead mod, but it will be a pity to waste the element and resource of ItRD mod.
For example:
Mercenary Arms and Mercenary Contract tech from ItrD scenrio, and also new mercenary units besides Landsknecht?
Renaissance cuirassier unit from ItRD as a cavalry unit between medieval knight and enlightenment era cavalry unit? I remember that Janboruta had made a beautiful protrait for cuirassier in ItRD.
Most of the units we've added are filling new gaps in unit lines created by stretching the tech tree. The only ones we've properly revamped are the exploration line and the naval units, which now have two distinct and clear unit progression lines along with separate parts with the Caravel and Privateer as standalone exploration and plunder ships respectively.

Of course, that's not to say that we're not going to do anything with mercenaries, although it might not be in this mod.

I think its better to keep the main cavalry line the way it is now...
Although, another mercenary unit would be nice.
:mischief:

Wait, aren't you fighting with Pouakai? :p
Only in the Egyptian theatre, we're got prior agreements elsewhere and ongoing cooperation in some areas.

Could you move railroads into the Industrial Era with the mod? Being only able to research them in the Modern Era has annoyed me ever since I started playing the game.
Eh, it's a bit outside of the scope of this, and moving it around ends up having unforseen consequences across the whole tech tree since it screws up the tech progression paths meaning you have to rearrange the whole area around it too
 
That could be cool, but like I've said this mod tries to stay as close to Vanilla gameplay as possible. If something like what you've suggested is possible, I think it'd be best suited as a ModMod to the Enlightenment

Or, you know, a mod devoted to Exploration mechanics :rolleyes:
 
I'm fairly bitter about you overlapping our interests with the Explorer and Surveyor, so you could at least not suggest that the overlap should be made more pronounced, and instead direct such a thought to ExCE's thread, where it might be implemented. Thanks to your prompt which demands ExCE's tribes be re-shuffled, I'll be needing new features :p
 
Most of the units we've added are filling new gaps in unit lines created by stretching the tech tree. The only ones we've properly revamped are the exploration line and the naval units, which now have two distinct and clear unit progression lines along with separate parts with the Caravel and Privateer as standalone exploration and plunder ships respectively.


I know that, but there is no Renasissance main cavalry unit now, why not fill this gap?
 
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