How to modify elven workers?

Auric · Dec 23, 2013

Does anyone have an idea how to forbid the elven workers to make improvements on ancient forests? In all my games the Elves become ridiculously powerful because of this ability. For example building farms on ancient forests makes them automatically the most populous nation which is paradoxical as the Elves should be rather less numerous.

Tholal · Dec 23, 2013

Not sure why you would want to do that. Being able to build on forests is the defining trait of the elven situations. I'm also not sure why you think that the elven nations should be less populous - this isn't Tolkien.

But to answer your question, the tag is <MaintainFeatures> found in CivilizationInfos.xml

Auric · Dec 23, 2013

Thanks a lot. I just don't like the idea of cultivating forests for the Elves. I also think this might contribute to the balance of the game. I'll try and see how it works.

Freesmog · Dec 27, 2013

Auric said:
Does anyone have an idea how to forbid the elven workers to make improvements on ancient forests? In all my games the Elves become ridiculously powerful because of this ability. For example building farms on ancient forests makes them automatically the most populous nation which is paradoxical as the Elves should be rather less numerous.

They can't make lumbermills on ancient forests right? Otherwise, it's a nice balance.

Auric · Dec 28, 2013

Freesmog said:
They can't make lumbermills on ancient forests right? Otherwise, it's a nice balance.

That's right, no improvements on ancient forests just like other civs. Beside this, in my games ancient forests don't appear automatically but you have to create them through spell. It's a needed nerf for for the Elves IMO. It also looks better as elvish realms now look like woods and no more like endless wheat fields in Ukraine.

Blakmane · Dec 28, 2013

But.... elves aren't even the best races in vanilla

. Top tier sure, but nothing compared to Lanun pirate cove spam or the dreaded calabim feastpires. In multiplayer they can be countered by blaze spam and early aggression/cottage killing. The AI never does these things..... but it's difficult to impossible to make 'balance changes' based on AI games.

Bad Player · Dec 29, 2013

You might also consider allowing captured elven race workers be allowed to build cottages on forests for other civs. It used to be like that and I really enjoyed trying to get elven workers from war so that I could also build like the elves.

Freesmog · Jan 2, 2014

Auric said:
That's right, no improvements on ancient forests just like other civs. Beside this, in my games ancient forests don't appear automatically but you have to create them through spell. It's a needed nerf for for the Elves IMO. It also looks better as elvish realms now look like woods and no more like endless wheat fields in Ukraine.

You only need fellowship of the leaves religion for forests to automatically become ancient forests.

Bad Player said:
You might also consider allowing captured elven race workers be allowed to build cottages on forests for other civs. It used to be like that and I really enjoyed trying to get elven workers from war so that I could also build like the elves.

Excellent idea. Perhaps even double the worker time to make such improvements.

Calavente · Jan 3, 2014

elven workers already have an increased work time... even on non-forested terrain.

if you remove the ability for elves to build under forest (that WILL develop into ancient forests if/when they go FoL), ljos and svart will become boring and WEAK civs.
(their über-cities are not due to being ljos... but only to the ability to work under forests).

so IMO, if you propose to do that, I expect that you will try to make a total conversion of the ljosalfars... to compensate.

A limited "nerf" would be to allow working under forest and ancient forest... save for farms if possible to make this limitation. (farms are the one that I always thought less credible as an improvement in forests).. pastures can be done in glads or under the trees, depending on what you are raising... plantations too (those are trees.. so why not), mines are ok, even windmills, watermills or workshops only need a small place or can be envisionned as morcelated working places.
however farms NEED big places and big fields... which kinda seems incompatible with forests.

Blakmane · Jan 4, 2014

Calavente said:
elven workers already have an increased work time... even on non-forested terrain.

if you remove the ability for elves to build under forest (that WILL develop into ancient forests if/when they go FoL), ljos and svart will become boring and WEAK civs.
(their über-cities are not due to being ljos... but only to the ability to work under forests).

so IMO, if you propose to do that, I expect that you will try to make a total conversion of the ljosalfars... to compensate.

A limited "nerf" would be to allow working under forest and ancient forest... save for farms if possible to make this limitation. (farms are the one that I always thought less credible as an improvement in forests).. pastures can be done in glads or under the trees, depending on what you are raising... plantations too (those are trees.. so why not), mines are ok, even windmills, watermills or workshops only need a small place or can be envisionned as morcelated working places.
however farms NEED big places and big fields... which kinda seems incompatible with forests.

Typically cottages are a better investment under ancient forests than farms anyway, because agrarianism isn't a good trade for the elves.

Calavente · Jan 6, 2014

yes, but farmed-ancient forests are what enables to have huge cities with reasonnable or even huge production..

Hightower · Feb 17, 2014

Blakmane said:
Typically cottages are a better investment under ancient forests than farms anyway, because agrarianism isn't a good trade for the elves.

Debatable. Farms with Sanitation on Ancient Forests while running Aristocracy are 4-1-2 tiles, which allows enormous cities and huge numbers of specialists. Cottages can get up to 3-1-6 for Towns with Taxation, which is comparable but not obviously stronger. You don't need to worry about running Agrarianism. (The disadvantage of Aristofarms is mainly the unhappiness once the AIs start switching to Republic, though Guardian of Nature gives you so much happiness that it usually doesn't matter.)

[to_xp]Gekko · Feb 17, 2014

plus republic sucks so if they're switching to it they're gimping themselves

BobCW · Feb 19, 2014

Aristocracy isn't a bad civic for the Elves by any means, but it takes a fair number of mid-game techs to get optimally set up; CoL, Sanitation, Construction, FoL. By comparison, cottages are pretty easy to start plopping down early & anywhere, which gives them a head start which can make a serious difference in a MP game. It additionally means you can run Godking to exploit your early production advantage (assuming the map gave you a decent number of forests). EitB also buffs cottages with one civic which doubles their maturation rate, and another which gives Towns +1 hammer (although the latter arrives fairly late in the game).

How to modify elven workers?

Auric

Chieftain

Tholal

Emperor

Auric

Chieftain

Freesmog

Skeptic1938222569

Auric

Chieftain

Blakmane

Prince

Bad Player

Deity

Freesmog

Skeptic1938222569

Calavente

Richard's voice

Blakmane

Prince

Calavente

Richard's voice

Hightower

Prince

[to_xp]Gekko

QCT junkie

BobCW

Warlord

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