The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #5 - Brazil

Gustavus Rex

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The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #5

Welcome to the Immortal difficulty version of the biweekly The Deity Challenge Lineup-event.

ICL Game #5
You - Brazil
Total Civilizations - 8
Total City States -16
Map – Continents
Settings – Quick quick combat(turn it back on if you would like). Everything else is set to default.
Game Version -
Downloadable Content – G&K, BNW, Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Genghis Khan's Mongolia, Harold Bluetooth's Denmark, Isabella’s Sapin and Pachacuti's Incan Empire, Kamehameha's Polynesian Empire, Nebruchadnezzar's Babylon, Sejong The Great's Korea, Wonders of the Ancient World. The map pack are intentionally excluded.

Starting location:



Schedule:

Game #1 - July 23th as Japan
Game #2 - August 6th as Poland
Game #3 - August 20th as Ottomans
Game #4 - September 3th as Arabia
Game #5 - September 17th as Brazil
Game #6

Information & rules cut, pasted and slightly changed from The Deity Challenge Lineup:

Spoiler :
All games in this series will be set to IMMORTAL difficulty. User civilizations, maps, and opponents will change each game, but the pace will always be set at standard and the starting era will always be ancient. We will try for a variety of starts, and not just having a crazy warmonger as your next door neighbor (although there will be that too). This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions. New challenges in the series will be posted every other Wednesday.

Who can play?
Anybody can play. The more the merrier. Even if you normally don't play immortal games you are still welcome to try. The games can become great learning resources for the player trying to improve. Even if you don't finish the game, we are still interested to hear about your experience.

Do's and Don'ts
We are going to be using the honor system. Feel free to restart, reload, play the same game multiple times, but don't use the science overflow exploit. Also please don't edit the game in IGE. If you do chose to cheat, please don't share your results in the comments. Also, please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, comment about neighboring civs, close by wonders, or locations of ancient ruins.

Also, please tell us about your Build Order, Social Policies, Tech Order, and what type of wonders you went after. I know a lot of this stuff seems pretty mundane to the experienced player, but the details are incredibly useful to people trying to learn.

Future Games in the Series
I want users to submit saves from turn 0. Preferably the person submitting the game has played enough turns to know the map is either difficult, fun, or unique in some enjoyable way. Write a short description as to why it is special and email the save to immortalchallengelineup@gmail.com

Important
If you submit a game for the challenge, you must have the DLC map packs disabled. Not everybody has them and they are honestly kind of useless. Having them disabled will allow more participants.
 

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OK I'll try this one. My experiences at the Immortal level with civs I am not very familiar with are almost always losses. My only attempt with Brazil was a disaster.

Some starting advice please. Would you settle in place or move one tile east to get the mountain?

I presume this is enough desert hills to go for Petra?

Thx .. neilkaz ..
 
I would not move. You will have 0 2 food ties in first circle if you move.... That will delay everything too mach I think. Even in place first circle does not look too good.
 
T78 & 156
Spoiler :
I have captured Warsaw. I also razed one Polish town. There is only one left. Salty.

Actually he slipped another settler past the city states so I ended up not wiping him out. What followed was a very long period of unhappiness for want of luxuries.

At 156 I have 4 cities including Warsaw but happiness is really bad and living spaces are tight. I am researching Navigation to look for more room.
 
t78 - At a crossroads.
Spoiler :
Only 2 cities, I built HG instead of 3rd, maybe 4th Settler. Bee-lined Currency, so still no Libraries, LOL. [edit got Petra!] Then went Trapping and BW - hate not knowing where iron is. I have 0% tech, but 1st in production. :D

Ruins: Spear, culture, map, gold. I was 1st to meet Manila, 4 tiles from Shanghai. :lol:

Religion: DF (duh), t75 Tithe, Pagodas. Thought about HW, but China is so far away.

Have stolen 4 Workers and 1 Settler from Poland. He will give Krakow in peace, but I don't love the location. Am debating taking it and trading vs. wiping him off the map. Warsaw looks good. He went Piety.

My initial plan was to settle the red dots, run food cargos between 2 expos, and culture up. But as of now I can take him and only China should know. Thoughts?
 

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Soooo another Petra game ? :p

OK I'll try this one. My experiences at the Immortal level with civs I am not very familiar with are almost always losses. My only attempt with Brazil was a disaster.

Some starting advice please. Would you settle in place or move one tile east to get the mountain?

I presume this is enough desert hills to go for Petra?

Thx .. neilkaz ..

I advise against the mountain, your early growth would be attrocious. You could in theory go there and buy the flood plains but I think you won't win that much in the end especially if you want to attempt culture rather than SV.
 
I played a long culture game 388 turns. I had to beat 75,817 culture points. Thanks, it was fun.

Spoiler :
Since I went straight after Poland, I never got any religion what so ever. That made happiness a big problem for quite a long time.
 
Spoiler :
Initil build order was scout scout shrine Obelisk granary.
I went honor/liberty to free settler, +2 to piety (situation on turn 110)

Poland fall on turn 72, Bejin on turn 110, still has size 2 city. I did not meat anyone else yet.

Self found total 3 cities, currently own 6, happiness negative and again did not get Petra.. :(

Hopefully I can finish off china before meat anyone else... Then can go to culture games, may be...


Update

Spoiler :
Played to turn 150.

Finish china but not before morocco found me, so now I got some warmonger penalties from them, some other found me after I finish china so I am cool with them.



Update

Cultural win turn 310.

With 9 cities there ware not really sci problem, even I build NC in modern era lol. Discover sci method and enter industrial first era turn 214. Brasil culture bonuses are actually crazy.
 
t78 - At a crossroads.
Spoiler :
Only 2 cities, I built HG instead of 3rd, maybe 4th Settler. Bee-lined Currency, so still no Libraries, LOL. [edit got Petra!] Then went Trapping and BW - hate not knowing where iron is. I have 0% tech, but 1st in production. :D

Ruins: Spear, culture, map, gold. I was 1st to meet Manila, 4 tiles from Shanghai. :lol:

Religion: DF (duh), t75 Tithe, Pagodas. Thought about HW, but China is so far away.

Have stolen 4 Workers and 1 Settler from Poland. He will give Krakow in peace, but I don't love the location. Am debating taking it and trading vs. wiping him off the map. Warsaw looks good. He went Piety.

My initial plan was to settle the red dots, run food cargos between 2 expos, and culture up. But as of now I can take him and only China should know. Thoughts?
Spoiler :
In my game Cazimir settled 2 crappy cities into my face by t45. Archer rush didn't work, so I am restarting and doing CB rush both Poland and China. I'm not a warmonger, but I have no choice.

During my second attempt, Poland settles 2 cities by t30... lol....

Third attempt: block one city spot for Poland, rush to Construction, get a spearman and 4 CB's. Cazimir shows up with swordsmen, horsemen, catapults, archers, spearmen, and DOW's me. How does one defend vs 15 units?

Update: After 5 tries, I decided that offense is the best defense. Rush-bought an archer and used a spearman (warrior popped ruin) to harass Poland. Captured 4 settlers, took Warsaw. Now it's turn 104, and China with Poland have vanished into oblivion. Nobody will know about their existence but the pesky Morocco who hate me with their guts.
 
I would like more emperor challenges in future. Immortal is next level for me. I've been testing the waters at emperor, and can win with strong civs though, like England.

But I'm not confidently immortal player though. It's just that all challenges are either deity or immortal :sad:
 
My social policies were Tradition which did not finish until about t110, Exploration (happiness here is only 2 picks deep), Freedom, Rationalism, and finally Aesthetics. I was making so much gold (250 to 350 GPT) that I was just going to buy all my spaceship parts. Meanwhile, I was filling in the culture parts and it started to look like that would work so I just went with it instead. I had I think all but one spaceship part finished at the end.
 
I would like more emperor challenges in future. Immortal is next level for me. I've been testing the waters at emperor, and can win with strong civs though, like England.

But I'm not confidently immortal player though. It's just that all challenges are either deity or immortal :sad:


What's stopping you from starting the ECL series? If people are interested they will play and if not you're out luck but no real harm done. All it takes is one active individual as a host to coordinate the effort of posting a map in regular intervals. Others willing to help can't be a bad thing but also not a mandatory thing. Keeping a lively track record of the past a la Dingle on Deity is a welcomed optional extra. The main issue is to avoid all sorts same level challenges coming left, right & center - it's kills the enthusiasm quickly.

It also depends on the definition of 'challenge' and in case of 'hard to overcome' I assume that most who want to take regularly part and post results in the current series don't find Emperor hard enough to create any sort of challenge. The same could be argued for Immortal & Deity. If on the other hand a challenge is viewed as a task which can be done in various methods people then, for the sake of interest, may be more willing to participate.

Initiative is the key and :hatsoff: to DingleBirdy & Gustavus Rex.
 
@adcarrymaokai: Glad you figured a way through that difficulty!
Spoiler :
In my game Poland built Terracotta Army, but I was able to pot shot his units one by one. He didn't fall for any worker baiting, but he still did silly things. Just like how water-based CS's will instantly send half their troops into the drink when war breaks out, he sent a Settler out of his city, huh? AI seems pretty good at hiding Workers inside, maybe Settlers are coded to leave?

t140 - I took out Poland, razed Krakow and later settled on the river gold. I still have Warsaw puppeted - happiness has been an issue all game. Have prioritized happy bldgs and markets in an attempt to get CS lux, have run most Caravans to CS for cash, no quests. Come on! The only Merc CS is hostile, great. Not very many good quests, and China is a turd. After getting embarkation I finally met Morocco, so have DOF and RA, trade routes soon. Exploration is so slow with land units paddling.

Science completely in the toilet! I think I had t110 or so NC and t135 Education. I actually avoided Civ Service - I decided to try some wonder spamming, so went Theology and Guilds first. So cap has HG, Petra, Oracle, Borobudur, and Machu; Sao Paulo has Hagia Sophia. Spreading religion like a mofo. Have DF, Pagodas, Guruship, and Itin Preachers. Have never done Guruship, but needed the +2 production early since I had Markets. China took Taoism which pissed me off, was tempted to take her out just for that, but she built the GW.

First game as Brazil, so after Tradition I went Aesthetics. I should be 4 deep before I hit Renn, which is fine to get cheaper Pagodas. Surprisingly little jungle, but my 5th city should have lots of Brazilwood camps.
 

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@nigel tufnel

Spoiler :
i did basically the same and i also had massive beaker problems
had Education T125 as well adn public schools T200+........
I am now T250 and still not even near satellites so i guess will be a very slow science vicotry because i am too lazy to conquer the world
 
@ all the other lazy Civ players including myself! :)

Turns 0-115

Spoiler :
I had a few long days recently and I think Im on a record pace of being in the clouds for over 100 days consecutively with the help of water pipes and mostly special brownies or tea, that is way more fun but seems to incapacitate me for 12 hours or so.

This is one Brazil game that I have played where it seems we have very little jungle. I kinda wanted to practice SS with faith but I just decided to go Domination instead. My B.O. was Scout, 5x Archers, 1 Warrior, Shrine, Gran, Water Mill, 1 Horseman. That sounds about right, later I built NC around turn 100 or so. I smashed Poland early with only archers and what not. I should of just pressed into China earlier but Deity play makes me wait for upgrades. I noticed I most likely could of sacked China with only Archers.

I decided to play around with Liberty and Honor. I opened Honor and am 4 deep into Liberty. I had a tough time getting CS's to be allies. Anyway I decided to build the happy buildings for my problem with that. I also met Askia and Morocco who are helping with some of the Happy and GPT.

Poland fell around t60 and China has 1 city left on t115 when I decided to keep them in the game and made peace. My Church is a little different since I started it late and did not get DF. I chose Earth Mother instead and picked up 1 happy from shrines this time, which is a first for me and I went Tithe as well. I am trying to build Hagia Sophia in Rio. Poland did not have any wonders but China had the Hanging Gardens, GW, and the GL which is nice.

Im not sure if Im going to press on and play it out or just leave it as is since the game is over and I can win via any VC I wish. Also Im not sure that anyone can really learn anything from my play through compared to other stronger players who have the game down to a science. I might get a reaction from other players who think this win is not in the bag but I would disagree with that comment.
 

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Going to give this a shot. Never played Brazil before, should be interesting.

Turn 116
Spoiler :
So this game is not going so great for me. Build order was Scout->Shrine->Worker->Settler->Library->Granary->4x Archers, which I later upgraded into Composite Bowmen. Poland had forward settled 2 cities right next to my capital by turn 30, he also had a thriving religion by turn 40 which just swept over me. He had 5 cities in total by turn 50 and I DoW'd him turn 60. I don't usually do early war, but I gave it a shot because Poland forward settled me so hard that I didn't have much room for expansion. I took 3 cities with 5 Composite Bowmen and a Warrior and I got a 5gpt peace deal. I razed all 3 cities because they weren't in particularly good locations and I didn't want to have to waste time building Courthouses when I could just place my own cities. I lost 2 Composite and a Catapult because his last city had walls and was on a hill so it was difficult to take. Got a turn ~90 National College.

I managed to grab Oracle and have full Tradition and Aesthetics opener so far. My science is pretty bad because I couldn't get many cities up and running due to this war, and I still only have 3 cities. Since my science is behind, I'm going to give a Culture victory a go (I've never tried a CV since BNW came out). After I get Education I'm probably going to grab Machinery and rush Warsaw with Crossbowmen. Not sure if I want to fully wipe Poland out, but I want to take Warsaw at least. Thoughts?



 
Played up to T96:

Spoiler :

I planned to go 4 city tradition and play peaceful and try to improve my endgame. It didn't quite go as planned...



First off, not happy with the starting tiles. Not enough food and no good tiles to work early. I decide to get cute and move settler NE for at minimum more Petra hills, hoping something good pops up in second ring. Mistake - nothing there. I settle the floodplains two tiles NE of initial start and pray I can get Petra.

I meet Poland with salt a few turns later... great. I'm screwed unless I harass him early, especially with my weak capital. I steal my first worker early around T5.

At this point my priorities are: contain Poland and build Petra. I went liberty to help with early production and because my capital is awful. At least I got DF and early flood plains farms thanks to Poland's slaves for some growth.

Open scout > scout > monument > shrine > archer. One of my scouts gets upgraded into an archer too. This helps a lot in harassing Poland. He manages to found a second city but I kill a couple Warriors and steal ~4 workers and 2 settlers. I keep building archers in cap and working my way down liberty tree.

I'm lucky to have horses close to city. I make two chariot archers to go along with my now 4 archers and 1 warrior and move in on Warsaw. I managed to worker bait a few of his units which made taking the city a lot easier. He built a catapult and a few spearmen at the end, but by that time it was too late.

Warsaw falls on T68 along with Temple of Artemis inside. I research construction shortly after and Krakow falls on T76. I lost only one unit during the Poland campaign (my archer scout - RIP).

China decided to forward settle me for some reason. After a short pause to stock up money I take Guangzhou quite easily. On the way to Beijing I clear a barb encampment and ally the Mercantile CS which gives me enough happiness to comfortably accept Shanghai in a peace deal on T96. I'm a bit disappointed as it only has a granary and no tiles improved around it.

Someone beat me to Petra on T90. This puts me in a bad spot science wise because I went for currency earlier than I would have liked. I hope I can build NC by around T115 and then annex a couple capitals.

I founded third religion with Desert Folklore - Tithe - Happiness from Temples. I really wanted Pagoda but both that and mosques were taken. Unfortunately my top two choices for reformation beliefs, sacred sites and jesuit education, are also taken. I'll probably still put a few points in Piety and a few points in Commerce. Exploration isn't a bad option either - even though my capital isn't coastal most of the cities on the continent are. Or Patronage to help with allying CS.

I'll take Beijing as soon as the peace expires. After that I'll build at least one more city in the jungle south of Rio, probably two more depending. Not exactly sure what to do from there because I usually don't play aggressive early. I guess culture, diplomacy and domination are still good options depending on how it plays out. Hopefully it doesn't take me too long to catch up on science.
 
t190 update - wonder spam continues...
Spoiler :
Yet ANOTHER Wide Tradition game, but only 7 cities this ICL, and only 1 from conquest. Focus is granaries, aqueducts (bought several), workshops (to get +2 religious bonus), markets, THEN libraries. Barely have any shrine line, hope to squeeze in soon, have 7 Pagodas. Will likely tech to Radio, look for coal, then go for Museums/Arch spam. Then early Hotels and if I go Airports I might even win before Internet. For the first time ever I have the highest score, and am almost triple Askia.

China kept swimming a Settler everywhere, I was frantically blocking with land units, even in the water. My 2 Scouts, 2CB and 1 Pike have uncovered a lot of the map, no navy at all yet. I did plant another city by Morocco - I couldn't believe he didn't settle NE of his cap, so silk, 2 incense, and 6 iron - thank you! Plus China was likely to settle that area, and I didn't want my ocean passage cut off.

I am trying to spread wonders around early for the Aesthetics Flourishing of the Arts 25% culture bonus - obviously can faith GE build late wonders anywhere. Lost LToP and Globe by 4 turns each to Gandhi and Poc - Cap built Sistine and Uffizi (4 Renn GA's), one city just finished FPalace, one has a wonder so is building Taj Mahal for fun, another 1/2 way to PT.

Had to divert to Patronage for FPalace, had a hard choice going deeper into Aesthetics, but went with Rat/Secularsim. Policies really come fast, this is my first early Aesthetics game ever. Have 7 CS allies, have spent little money on upgrades. Have DOF and RA's with Mor and India. China seems to have the only cotton and copper so far - my WLTK are going to end soon.

Mor had my religion quite a while, China ended that. He looks like my biggest culture challenge, and I'm already at 15%. I had assumed he would go Freedom with only 3 cities, but now he has 4. China may be a tough nut to crack, as we will only have trade routes for modifiers, although she may go Freedom with only 3 cities as well.
 

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