Raliuven SG2 Demi-God Aztecs

In my experience I have found better trading occurs when I run the top branch and trade for the techs leading to MT. There are more optional techs to sidetrack the AI so that we can get a monopoly or two on our way up the ladder. If we are a step behind on the MT branch, we could end up being second fiddle the entire way.

However, with Greece as our next door neighbor, those Hoplites+walls are going to a major pain even for knights. It would be nice to have some Cav & cannons to bust them up.

I'm at work and I can't load the save at this point, but if we still have a lot of land to cover it might work to go the top branch. If the world is shrinking around us, then MT.

Maybe I missed this in the notes - but is Engineering still unknown? If we need to research Engineering ourselves, that might also be a good reason to go towards Theo; Theo may have better trade value later, assuming we are not the first to either tech.

Hmm, sounds like we're pretty evenly divided. I'll look at the save tonight, and if we look hemmed in, I'll start set research on the bottom branch. If it still looks spacious, I'll press on for Edumacayshun -- uh, book learnin'

There is still a lot of land available, and engineering is unknown. Barbs are plentiful, too.

Handoff notes:

We have a Settler on a desert tile NW-ish of Tzintzuntzen; he should settle in place to claim the plains.

The Mayans are trying to settle another city W of Texcoco. The Horse and A-Cav there should be able to run interference.

We have one other Settler right now; I was thinking of putting on the riverbend SW of Texcoco, on the forest tile. Other spots would be the hill near Tlaxcala, the coast E of Cempoala, or (if you're brave) near the sugar SW of Teayo.

That last one is unlikely; we have a Barbarian problem there.

Speaking of Barbarians and military, we have a Horseman and a Jaguar fortified near Tenoch; they're meant as a quick-response force covering the entire eastern half of our Republic. Anything E of Tlatelolco is covered, so we'll probably want another Horseman or two in that stack.

We can't buy MA techs yet, but we can sell the Republic to France and get Monarchy, Incense, and 6 gold. I'm leery of making that deal because it could get severed by war with the Mayans or the Greeks.

Finally, I'm uncertain about the value of the Galley build in Atzcapotzalco. It's worth considering a switch to Library there.

Looks good. I started the FP in Tlatelolco mostly because it was the only place that could build it in a reasonable amount of time, so if we want to switch to something else, that's fine.

Unless we are planning war soon, I don't see a problem with trading with France; we aren't supplying the lux, so if the route breaks, our reputation doesn't suffer. I usually pass the Republic around pretty freely in a space game, to increase general research speed.

I do think we should look at going to war relatively soon. We could declare on the Mayans and take their Settler pair, then take their city to our N. We might need to raze and replace, though.

The same goes for Egypt and her cities to our W -- though I'd like to get another half dozen cities settled before embarking on THAT adventure.

If we get a little bit more roading done, we could declare on Maya and still trade with France, through Greece, though the incense trade might no longer be available..

Do we want to use the AI to research for us, or do we want to slow down their research for easier conquering? If we want slower research, I'm for early war with the Maya, coupled with some military alliances with civs on the other continent. If we want them researching for us, I want to hold off on war and make the trade with France.

I'd like to go after the nearby Egyptian cities as soon as the available land is settled. Once we take the local cities, we might ally Greece against them. Then we can move against Greece after the alliance dies and we have units that will kill hoplites.

My goal for a war with Maya would just be to expand our northern borders a bit, that's all. Broadly speaking, I think we want to own our continent and keep the AIs fairly evenly balanced on the other continent -- the game is easier without a runaway AI.

Mostly we'll need to focus on limited wars until we can wipe out Greece with Cavs (and probably rail). Until then, we can snag a few cities of opportunity from AIs that settle S of Greece. We may have some luck sending troops overseas to secure luxuries, too, but it'll take another few turnsets to figure that out.

Oops - I see that it is my 'got it'. I've got the save and I'll take a look tonight. I do like the idea of owning our own continent, but I also would like to keep the Greek around for the free tech. I think I've got enough to go on; I'll know more tonight.

Raliuven said:

I also would like to keep the Greek around for the free tech.

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I definitely want to do this.

Raliuven said:

I also would like to keep the Greek around for the free tech.

Click to expand...

I think they're perfect candidates for a tundra OCC client kingdom

Elephantium said:

I think they're perfect candidates for a tundra OCC client kingdom

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What? Enslave the Greek? I would never think of doing that!

I like the idea of putting our outbound settler on the forest tile like Elephantium suggests but using the city to push out workers/settlers/catapults so we can disband it later to let the nearby cities have the tiles when they grow crowded. If we want a more permanent settlement, I think we need to move a little further up the coast (and off ther river ), probably to about where our horse is currently standing on the coast.

The next 2 settlers would claim the sugar plains over by the gems and the east coast of gem land, though I'd be tempted to settle off the lake on the SE tip of the landmass. It would be nice if the barbs killed that egyptian sword/settler pair so we could send a settler that way; I guess we'll have to settle for stealing the city away instead.

Sorry I'm a bit slow on this round, my son's football game went late last night. I'll get it done tonight unless ther is significant discussion.

I think that forest tile SHOULD be a permanent settlement; no one else can use that tile. In the long run, it'll mean emphasizing commerce over production at Texcoco, but I don't think that's a big deal.

You do make a good point, though; we don't want the core *too* cluttered.

Elephantium said:

I think that forest tile SHOULD be a permanent settlement; no one else can use that tile. In the long run, it'll mean emphasizing commerce over production at Texcoco, but I don't think that's a big deal.

You do make a good point, though; we don't want the core *too* cluttered.

Click to expand...

True. I'm having the same problem with the gemmed landmass. How to get those extra tiles included in a city without too much clutter.

Update:

I'm 5 turns in and I have a question for the group. We are in high settler production and I've settled both cities up for discussion. I've 3 more settlers already made and I could start 2 more during my turns. I'd like to discuss further city placement. I made a dot map for discussion. All of the good river placement are gone, of course.



Turn Log (to Turn 125)

Preflight (turn 120) –

Swap galley in Calixtlahuaca to a settler due in 1t.
Swap Atzcapotzalo from a galley to a library.

See that Athens is size 8 and Sparta is size 7.

IBT – Egypt asks us if we have lost our way. Sorry, just leaving.
Mayan settler moves towards our settling site.
Two Egyptian swords appear near Teayo. Looks like they are Barb hunting.

Turn 121 – SoZ - AC
Calix Settler>Barracks
Tzint Worker>Library
Settle Chalco in place to claim plains as suggested. Start Worker.

I take the risk to trade France Republic for Monarchy, 7gp & Incense. We don’t need Monarchy but happiness is being a real pain.

Move units to block Mayan Settler. Hopefully he’ll reconsider and head north.

IBT – Lot of Egyptian swords appear by Teayo . Another Egyptian settler appears to the far west by Greek Thessalonica.
Mayan settler/spear head deeper into our lands.
Spanish galley sinks a barb boat by Tlac.

Turn 122 – Tenoch Settler>Horse
4/4 horse flawlessly kills a 1/2 barb horse flawlessly. No promotion.
Move extra settlers to the West.

Shuffle units to protect Chalco and block the Mayans.

IBT – The Iroquois ask us to find a new place to sail our boat. Okay.
Egypt tells us to GET OUT. So sorry. Our warrior goes back in his box. He can’t escape Egypt. Consider building an embassy so our warrior can get a passport.
Egyptian flood of swords is helping to clear out our barb problem. So nice of them.
Mayans are finally leaving.

Turn 123 – Tlacopan Barracks>Horse.
Teayo Worker>Worker
Settle Tlalmanalco. Start Cat.

Engineering is starting to make its way around.

IBT – Iroquois demand Mono. Our military advisor says we are weak. They will declare if I tell them to go away. They are very far away but I don’t want to risk them starting a dog pile on us. Mono is well known anyway. I give it up.

Turn 124 – zzz

IBT – Egypt gives our boat sailing directions. Again.
Greek units clean up some more barbs.

Turn 125 – Tenoch Horse>Horse
Teo Settler>Worker

I'm good with your dots. I think the western cities are going to be basically corrupt, and so we'll want to build tightly there eventually - basically ICS'd for science farms eventually - but that is possible with the current dots. We could put purple one space north, on the river, since Buto isn't going to be there all that long, at least not as an Egyptian city.

The spot E of Xochi is very low-priority, I think. 2N of Teoti isn't a bad spot, but I'd push settlers to the W first -- we're racing for territory.

The next settler should go for the blue dot (maybe 1E from there), and the one after that should take whatever land is left in the west when he gets there. After that, I think we'll be at the "fill in and build military" stage.

What do you all think about a short Buto war with Egypt?

Once we have built a little military, I think a short Egyptian war, picking up all of the southern Egyptian cities, would be great, especially if it is all wound up before it's my turn again.

The important thing is to avoid war with Maya or Greece while the lux trade with France goes through their coastal territory.

Thanks everyone. I'll finish tonight!

lurker's comment: Good job so far, guys!