March Patch Notes (formerly february)

Funny you should mention AgS Resource Panel... where's this guy?!
I want me a click & go process to quickly find newly activated Coal_Oil_Aluminum_Uranium precious tiles foreign enough to be hidden waaaaayyyyy outside my Territory.
We zoom to Cities or Units, we should also be able to detect Strategic Resources in a snap.
So, feasible or have i done a pre-emptive test for an extra-icon right near the MiniMap panel to auto-flash the dots like CS_Tasks(etc) for nothing?

PS; Sorry for such an Off-Topic deviation but since Valk comes here sooooo rarely - it had to be said right here & now.

In my opinion, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

Still some fundamental issues with the game that haven't been addressed.

I will give this patch a try when it comes out, though.

Glad the Frankenstein group is getting their input heard.

Psst...tell them to change the global happiness system.

cccv said:

Academy increased to 6 Science.
Landmark increased to 6 Culture.
Manufactory increased to 4 Production.[/B]
This I might like. I'll have to see what the new consensus is on GP improvements vs burn-abilities.

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The beelined Babylon Academy will still be viable. Artists are still a waste, and it's hard to envision circumstances where you'd take a Manufactory over a midgame Wonder. If you pop a GE out early enough from Meritocracy, you might build a Manufactory on a tile that several cities can share to jump start infrastructure.

I don't see how this patch is going to make "tall" empires viable. Even with the hit to base city squares, lots of cities are still going to be optimal until they nerfbat Great Scientists and rework Maritimes. Speaking of which, upping late game tech costs and the new Landed Elite just compound those errors.

The only question left in my mind is whether France, Babylon, India or Siam best abuses the new rule set.

Valkrionn said:

The majority of the benefit of Liberty is immediate, as soon as you adopt it. This compares nicely with Tradition, where all effects are longterm, and will apply over the course of the whole game... I think it becomes an interesting decision.

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You're going to want parts of both trees, unless you are playing an OCC. With all of the Culture buffs, you won't have to restrict yourself to one or the other. You're going to end up with a boatload of early policies.

Great changes, just a few issues:

Nuclear and Solar Plants now require Factory

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So if I have no coal, I cannot build solar/nuclear plants?

Trade routes get bonus gold based on population of capital

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So you are nerfed for the whole game with a food-poor start?

Scaled up tech costs throughout the game (slight change for early eras; close to double for Modern)

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17** spaceships are silly, but I thought the problem is RA's, not beakers?

Cities must now have three or more tiles in between them

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Paper Maker only provides 2 gold

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Reduce Chu-ko-nu from 10 to 9 ranged strength

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India boasted and China nerfed... again. Lots of Indian programmers working on the patch ?

seasnake said:

Is this a complete list of changes, or by chance will there be some more? It's a good looking patch regardless.

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2K Greg stated in the original thread that it is as near a complete list as possible.

Looks like some things were grouped together (like the line talking about rebalancing costs), and there are almost certainly random bug fixes that wouldn't be mentioned, but it's probably a pretty complete list.

Zyxpsilon said:

Funny you should mention AgS Resource Panel... where's this guy?!
I want me a click & go process to quickly find newly activated Coal_Oil_Aluminum_Uranium precious tiles foreign enough to be hidden waaaaayyyyy outside my Territory.
We zoom to Cities or Units, we should also be able to detect Strategic Resources in a snap.
So, feasible or have i done a pre-emptive test for an extra-icon right near the MiniMap panel to auto-flash the dots like CS_Tasks(etc) for nothing?

PS; Sorry for such an Off-Topic deviation but since Valk comes here sooooo rarely - it had to be said right here & now.

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It should be entirely possible. Only hurdle would be actually finding the plot; The rest is just registering a button callback for the list item.

Literally, all the code involved to jump to the plot is "UI.LookAt( plot );".

Better, of course, would be to highlight the plots, rather than jump to them. That way you can handle multiple plots.

Anyway. Rather than go further off-topic... I do check CfC every day, I just check the FfH forums. So if you send me a PM, I'll see it.

Martin Alvito said:

You're going to want parts of both trees, unless you are playing an OCC. With all of the Culture buffs, you won't have to restrict yourself to one or the other. You're going to end up with a boatload of early policies.

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I don't see that as a bad thing, personally.

But then, I view all the "Tall vs Wide" arguments as a bit silly. Yes, both should be viable strategies... But very few people play a "pure" strategy of either kind. In most cases, it would be more accurately described as a hybrid between the two... Which is as it should be. Both have their benefits, as well as their flaws.

For what it's worth, I tend to place Tall in the early game, establish my economy, and then balloon out into a sustained Wide empire. Even in Civ4.

Superbly extensive fine-tuning assets all over the list.
I feel the first-release Beta syndrome will soon fade away like it should.
Won't get into much details but;

1) 3 for MinCityRange has been on my GlobalDefine.xml for months. No more quick re-edits for the real and only worthy anti-ICS trick. Yeah.
2) Economics, Aqueducs, lotsa Modding inspired adjustments. Thal' (and many more Tuners_Tuna!) must be smiling like a salmon in the Colorado river.
3) Embarked units no longer look like they have 500 strength... please let this be a Single Model of a transport Boat. Double never made any sense to me.
4) Added Line Control for modders to use when creating graphs, etc.... omg, somebody call the Info-Addict guy immediately - I want to see him smile too.
5) Specialist_Scientists are now directly tied with the new Research growth factors.
6) Camps on Deer give production instead of food... please do have a look at this Spreadsheet if you don't mind.
7) Policies are getting politically correct and highly adaptatives where it simply counts.
8) Colossus no longer goes obsolete... that Gold continues to pile up - worth investing into, finally.
9) Increased Oil quantity per resource.... i sure hope some of this extra will be made dependant on key Units like the Destroyer.

Yup, covers the essential.

While you wait for this brand new patch... want some re-colored MapTypes Icons? Click here and enjoy!

Valkrionn said:

I don't see that as a bad thing, personally.

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The one concern I have is that it will probably make the game a lot easier. The AI will get a lot less mileage than I will out of Culture and Food buffs, a free Settler or a free GS/GE.

Of course, it may also be that all the land will be gone by turn 40 on Deity due to the new city spacing rules, resulting in block-or-die games like in Civ 4 vanilla Deity. That would probably elevate the challenge level a bit despite the SP buffs.

Looks like a typical post-lead-departure patch.

Wait for the next patch to get a real assessment of what direction the game is going. Assuming they don't use the next patch implementing another round of modder-tested changes.

Camikaze said:

Yeah, I guess we'll see how it plays out. -25% from factory and -25% from railroads though...

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Lets just look at the new base production modifiers:

All mines +1 with Chemistry
Workshop +2
Windmill +2
Factory +3
Deer camps, Armory iron mines etc. also provide

So in a realistic industrial era scenario: Factory, Railroad, Windmill, Workshop:
Before: 0 base but 115% modifier
Now: 7 base but +65% modifier

I'd really like to see an OIL powerplant option.

HAHA! So now it is clear! They are NOT ABLE to improve tactical AI !

I love these changes, CiV will be even more fun (I never hated the game).

Well I have never hated the game neither but I was hoping the will FINALLY fix the tactical AI !

OK so the patch notes look pretty solid. Yet another step in the right direction, the patches have been making sweeping changes (which is obviously necessary) so I'll try it out but I still see no reason to spend lots of time playing this game if it's gonna be a completely different game in 2 months!

Just a couple of thoughts: The focus on tall vs. wide empires is probably a good step, the changes to liberty and tradition are pretty cool but might open up some weird exploits. This emphasis however, seems to have rendered honor completely redundant. It just can't compete with a free GP of your choice or +2 food per city.

Just a few things that were unclear in the notes which I'm wondering what people think of:

Landed Elite: +15% Growth, and +2 Food per city.

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Ummm... Isn't landed elite in the tradition branch? I'm not sure what the +15% Growth is, is that pop growth in all cities??? Even so this seems like a ridiculously powerful policy for a "wide" empire not a tall empire.

Tradition: Culture border expansion discount in cities placed on Tradition branch opener. Discount increases over the course of the game. Also grants +3 Culture in the capital.

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What does "in cities placed on tradition branch opener mean"? Does that mean that it only applies to cities which were placed when the policy was unlocked. Seeing as this is the base policy it basically only means the cap. Although it does seem that going liberty=>tradition is a viable option now.

The scale of this patch and the previous ones show just what an utter mess CiV is.

I would like to suggest that they just forget CiV and apply all their resources to making Civ6 with the promise to give Civ6 to all of us who wasted our money on CiV. CiV can never get to an acceptable standard because it is fundamentally flawed on so many levels that huge patches can never address the scale of the problem. CiV can never become a complex, riveting experience like Civ IV BTS....

Put it down to being a bad mistake and just move on.

Anyway, that's what I would like to see.

Making buildings stronger is definitely towards right direction. Aqueduct (the new Granary) is a building there should have been in the very beginning. I wonder what tech it needs to be unlocked. Seems diplomacy won't be improving much this time either.

I just hope they will nerf RAs and GScientists... They are even more powerful now.

But good changes overall.

I'm pretty happy about these changes. I especially like the extra hammer mines get with chemistry. Food and production is now about equal value again. Plains are no longer strictly better than grassland. And resources are no longer irrelevant late game.

Bibor said:

Lets just look at the new base production modifiers:

All mines +1 with Chemistry
Workshop +2
Windmill +2
Factory +3
Deer camps, Armory iron mines etc. also provide

So in a realistic industrial era scenario: Factory, Railroad, Windmill, Workshop:
Before: 0 base but 115% modifier
Now: 7 base but +65% modifier

I'd really like to see an OIL powerplant option.

Click to expand...

Well the buildings actually providing base is good, but I'm not sure if that +7 base is going to outweigh an extra +50%. Let's see...

A city with base 10 with +115% will get 21.5 , and with the new yields will have a base of 17 and get 28.05 . A city with 30 currently gets 64.5 , but will instead get 61.05. The point where production starts to be better under the current system would seem to be at 25 base production.

Hmm...not as bad as I thought, actually. That's reasonably high. But it would seem to run counter to the emphasis being placed on larger cities; the larger your cities get, the more they are disadvantaged under this new system.

Wonder bonuses could use some cleaning up... +2 science for Old Faithful? You can at least give it some economy for tourism.

Krakatoa spawns in the middle of the ocean a lot. Is that intended?

With the bonuses to GP tile enhancements, maybe the Wonder Bonuses should be re-examined.